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[Manormanic]

With him and Root already in the side, is it time to start looking forward and getting a few more youngsters in? I'd like to see Chris Woakes, Chris Wood & David Willey given a go in the seamers positions, along with Finn and Meaker. The spinners position given to Briggs or Kerrigan (who was treated very unfairly in my opinion) an some of the young batsmen, Vince, Ballance, Ali, Taylor ect bought into the side over time. England's old guard aren't why they used to be so consolidating for the future may be wise sooner rather than later!

Seriously?  Some of the names posited nearly had me choking on my coke zero.

Don't mistake me, I think there is value in steadily streaming young players through as the side evolves, but I am seriously unsure as to your reasoning for a lot of the names mentioned.  Batting wise, I agree Balance ill be worth a spot eventually, though I think he needs to spend a season batting three or four for Yorkshire first myself, and Vince has enough talent that he ought to get there at some point, through returns to date have not suggested that that point is anytime soon.  But Taylor....I suspect that his character has not impressed management and that he will struggle to get close, which is sadly a fair call for my money.  As for Moeen, he would need to continue to score big, ideally in the top tier, to convince tat his recent improvements are just that rather than a purple patch (though I would stick him in the one day side happily).  Yet you don't mention Sam Robson and Varun Chopra, nor Alex Lees...

Spinners next - Briggs should competing at the Lakeside not the MCG.  Kerrigan...in time, maybe, but there are some serious scars there hat will take a lot to heal, and when he does come back for another go, he needs to have worked a way of getting some more snap and body into his action because placing it there with a flick of the wrist might work on underprepared Liverpool club wickets, but it won't on Chief Executive pitches at Test grounds.  Here, I'd ask why Azim Rafiq doesn't get a shout out - our nearest replacement for Swann and  a good all rounder cricketer, though the ideal would be for one of Rashid and Borthwick to kick on with their bowling that little bit to give us an all round wrist spin option.

So far, we can agree to disagree...but Woakes, Wood and Willey?  The latter may make it in time, though mot likely in the one day game rather than the test arena.  But Woakes' chances were firmly scuppered when Stokes came into the side, as there will never be a place for both of them, and Wood would not get in the top 20 seamers in the country.  Meaker and Finn might be part of the long tem solution but even they are a way back in the reckoning a of now - I'd say Broad and Anderson are still first names, Bresnan will be round and about, and Onions will suddenly look very good in comparison.  For new blood, I would still like to see Rankin given a go, and there are longer term prospects in Topley and Mills at Essex, Jamie Overton at Somerset and Luke Fletcher and Harry Gurney at Notts.  I'd like to see if Chris Rushworth has the skill to fill the old Hoggard role, though I suspect lack of gas will count against him.

[procricket]

Wood really,,, I like Woakes but he too is below the test level i think.

[Cumbrian Pete]

Has James Taylor got character problems?  He always seems like a team player to me and I'd like to see him have a run in the one day side at the very least.

[Manormanic]

Has James Taylor got character problems?  He always seems like a team player to me and I'd like to see him have a run in the one day side at the very least.

I don't know whether he has or hasn't, but it I very clear that the England management have seen something that they really don't like about him...

[Mtown Don]

Having watched a lot of Hampshire this year, I would agree that Wood and Briggs just aren't Test bowlers and Vince needs to mature before he is considered. All could become fixtures in the ODI team in due course though


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[WalkingWicket37]

Seriously?  Some of the names posited nearly had me choking on my coke zero.

Don't mistake me, I think there is value in steadily streaming young players through as the side evolves, but I am seriously unsure as to your reasoning for a lot of the names mentioned.  Batting wise, I agree Balance ill be worth a spot eventually, though I think he needs to spend a season batting three or four for Yorkshire first myself, and Vince has enough talent that he ought to get there at some point, through returns to date have not suggested that that point is anytime soon.  But Taylor....I suspect that his character has not impressed management and that he will struggle to get close, which is sadly a fair call for my money.  As for Moeen, he would need to continue to score big, ideally in the top tier, to convince tat his recent improvements are just that rather than a purple patch (though I would stick him in the one day side happily).  Yet you don't mention Sam Robson and Varun Chopra, nor Alex Lees...

Spinners next - Briggs should competing at the Lakeside not the MCG.  Kerrigan...in time, maybe, but there are some serious scars there hat will take a lot to heal, and when he does come back for another go, he needs to have worked a way of getting some more snap and body into his action because placing it there with a flick of the wrist might work on underprepared Liverpool club wickets, but it won't on Chief Executive pitches at Test grounds.  Here, I'd ask why Azim Rafiq doesn't get a shout out - our nearest replacement for Swann and  a good all rounder cricketer, though the ideal would be for one of Rashid and Borthwick to kick on with their bowling that little bit to give us an all round wrist spin option.

So far, we can agree to disagree...but Woakes, Wood and Willey?  The latter may make it in time, though mot likely in the one day game rather than the test arena.  But Woakes' chances were firmly scuppered when Stokes came into the side, as there will never be a place for both of them, and Wood would not get in the top 20 seamers in the country.  Meaker and Finn might be part of the long tem solution but even they are a way back in the reckoning a of now - I'd say Broad and Anderson are still first names, Bresnan will be round and about, and Onions will suddenly look very good in comparison.  For new blood, I would still like to see Rankin given a go, and there are longer term prospects in Topley and Mills at Essex, Jamie Overton at Somerset and Luke Fletcher and Harry Gurney at Notts.  I'd like to see if Chris Rushworth has the skill to fill the old Hoggard role, though I suspect lack of gas will count against him.

It was more a hypotheticall really mate, the names you have mentioned are indeed valid options too.
I'm just hoping that the management see the light and start the transition period sooner rather than later for whoever they decide to bring in. The same old names suffering the same old problems which results in the same old failures has gone on long enough.

[WalkingWicket37]

Having watched a lot of Hampshire this year, I would agree that Wood and Briggs just aren't Test bowlers and Vince needs to mature before he is considered. All could become fixtures in the ODI team in due course though


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Being a Hampshire fan I was overlooking their quality as I'd just like to see them representing England 

[procricket]

There is a real lack of real quality plenty of decent but no real top draw quality around.

But as somebody once said how do you become top draw.

[Nickauger]

Now I'm not suggesting that Stokes will go anywhere near the great man, but Kallis would have started as a youngster who bowled mid 80's, and could bat a bit. He looks like he's got a more solid technique and better mentality than Freddie. Too early to say, but the lads only 22. He's won me over, and I hope he's got a big future. I didn't see any of it, and don't know how the Aussies bowled at him, but his temperament sounds good, and we'll see how he matures!

[Mtown Don]

Being a Hampshire fan I was overlooking their quality as I'd just like to see them representing England 

Fair enough. In that case, stick Dawson in there as well! More of a wicket taker than Briggs.

I thought Stokes was very good Nick. Learnt from the mistakes of others; playing length bowling patiently and leaving well and forcing the seamers to aim for wicket balls before punishing the resulting short balls and half volleys. Also was more in control of the pull shot than any of the other England batsman have been this series, playing well in front of square and pulling out when it got above the shoulder


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[FattusCattus]

Does anyone know much about Borthwick?  I thought he was coming along nicely a couple of years back, although I'm sure I read they've been batting him up the order and bowling him less?

Also (whisper it) Durham can't be the best place for him to be playing half his games?

[Manormanic]

It was more a hypotheticall really mate, the names you have mentioned are indeed valid options too.
I'm just hoping that the management see the light and start the transition period sooner rather than later for whoever they decide to bring in. The same old names suffering the same old problems which results in the same old failures has gone on long enough.

I agree that there needs to be some transition planning - indeed, there should have been more in the last year than there has been really.  That said, I don't think that there are same old problems, so much as that a good team has come toward the end of its road.  I don' know how many players will be phased out in the next English summer - it may only be one or two at most, but there needs to be a slight move away from the matey culture that has been the preserve of Team England. 

For the start of the Summer, I'd currently posit:
Cook
Robson
Bell
Root
Pietersen
Stokes
Prior
Broad
Swann
Rankin
Anderson

With a move over the following year toward:
Cook
Robson
Root
Bell
Balance
Bairstow
Stokes
Rafiq
Broad
One of the left armers
Anderson

[moonball]

I agree with Manormanic.... mostly. Certainly players like Sam Robson and maybe Rory Burns are the next generation. Balance needs a try too.

[WalkingWicket37]

Fair enough. In that case, stick Dawson in there as well! More of a wicket taker than Briggs.

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Dawson is a strange one, a few years back (thinking it was 2009) he was a young player with all the makings of an England player. Sadly he never lived up to his early promise and his chances of international recognition are now all but over.
I think he'll go down as a what if of the county game.

[MD2812]

I thought the thing with Taylor was they thought his action would be suspect against top bowlers because of his height?