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[Nickauger]

I think the problem with dropping prior is that they will bring some-one in for the long term, as this England management (rightly or wrongly; you decide) seems to do, and at the moment there seems to be no long term replacement. Remember Compton was dropped because Root was the long term option, so dropping Prior will mean giving some-one a bloody good go at it, and there is no-one banging down the door. Kieswetter is not international standard, Buttler has got a pea heart (Bitter Somerset fan), and Davies I don't know enough about and didn't set the world alight in FC last year did he (genuine question)? Foster and Read are too old, and the rest are outstanding keepers who can't bat (Foakes, Bates etc.). Like it or not, you won't get into the test side as a keeper unless you can bat.

And to suggest that Davies got dropped because he's gay, is hugely disappointing, and in this day and age.... downright wrong! If he felt that was the case, he would have gone to the papers about it!

[Leddster138]

I thought it was interesting to hear Shane Warne say he'd pick Healy in front of Gilcrist in his all time Aussie 11. His reasoning being the top 6 should score the runs and that we it came to the crunch you want your best gloveman behind the stumps. Gilcrist changed the way we all view keepers and made everyone expect more from them than is probably fair as he was truly a one off (I don't count Sangakkara as a successful test gloveman).

Having a high average is great but no point if you drop catches or miss stumpings - that pulls the whole team down. If England are in true transition then I think they should have a think about trailing out the best keepers in the country not the best batters who have gloves in their bag - imho Bairstow, Butler etc.

On this basis, not just because of his lack of runs, I would drop Prior.

[Mtown Don]

Bairstow's selection, however, has always been a bit of an enigma to me. He might have been good enough at county level but it's pretty clear that he's woefully out of his depth at Test level. I can't believe they brought him on tour. If they wanted to blood a young 'keeper, why not Buttler?

I think Buttler may be seen as a better prospect with the gloves in the long run but a bit more 'raw' in the longer form than Bairstow. I imagine they are working intensely on bringing his all round game up to scratch. Being first choice at Lancashire should certainly help next season


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[Nickauger]

I'm not sure that even though Bates etc. are undoubdetly the best 'keepers' in the country, I don't know that their strengths make them a better bet in the test side tbh.

[WalkingWicket37]

I'm not sure that even though Bates etc. are undoubdetly the best 'keepers' in the country, I don't know that their strengths make them a better bet in the test side tbh.

Bates is one of, if not the best keepers I've seen live.
Unfortunately his batting wasn't deemed good enough so Hampshire signed Wheater (who's batting last year was crap anyway!)

I can remember Bates being picked as a keeper and Wheater as a batsman in the same game a few times, that should tell you all you need to know about ones glove work and ones batting really...

[Mtown Don]

Bates is one of, if not the best keepers I've seen live.
Unfortunately his batting wasn't deemed good enough so Hampshire signed Wheater (who's batting last year was crap anyway!)

I can remember Bates being picked as a keeper and Wheater as a batsman in the same game a few times, that should tell you all you need to know about ones glove work and ones batting really...

Agreed, neither of them good enough to merit consideration


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[Sam]

No matter how much I think Prior really could do with being dropped I can't see the current England set up going through with it. They persist with players too long hoping they will get a return to form which is what the lower levels of cricket are for in my opinion.

Bates is one of, if not the best keepers I've seen live.
Unfortunately his batting wasn't deemed good enough so Hampshire signed Wheater (who's batting last year was crap anyway!)

I can remember Bates being picked as a keeper and Wheater as a batsman in the same game a few times, that should tell you all you need to know about ones glove work and ones batting really...

I'm really hoping they pick both of them again in the starting team this year as they did in the last few games of last season. His keeping is really superb and stunning to watch at times, especially in the one day stuff.

[uknsaunders]

I thought it was interesting to hear Shane Warne say he'd pick Healy in front of Gilcrist in his all time Aussie 11. His reasoning being the top 6 should score the runs and that we it came to the crunch you want your best gloveman behind the stumps. Gilcrist changed the way we all view keepers and made everyone expect more from them than is probably fair as he was truly a one off (I don't count Sangakkara as a successful test gloveman).

Having a high average is great but no point if you drop catches or miss stumpings - that pulls the whole team down. If England are in true transition then I think they should have a think about trailing out the best keepers in the country not the best batters who have gloves in their bag - imho Bairstow, Butler etc.

On this basis, not just because of his lack of runs, I would drop Prior.

Warne didn't quite say that. Gilly was in his best 11 but he admitted Healy was a better gloveman. There you have the problem, in the non-romantic world of test cricket your number 7 has to score runs, including centuries. If you think playing a guy with 2 test caps (and alot of talent) at 6 means you are guaranteed runs then you must be joking. What it does do is give you that 4th seamer option. That allows you to bowl the other seamers at full pelt and hopefully creating more chances - that doesn't just mean caught to the keeper. In many ways Stokes batting 6 confirms the need for a batting keeper.

I wouldn't be surprised if JB has been working very hard on his keeping all tour. In my opinion he has been lined up as Prior's test replacement for a while. Butler isn't far behind and when you have his ability there is no reason why you can't transfer it to test matches. How did KP start?

[Mtown Don]

No matter how much I think Prior really could do with being dropped I can't see the current England set up going through with it. They persist with players too long hoping they will get a return to form which is what the lower levels of cricket are for in my opinion.

I'm really hoping they pick both of them again in the starting team this year as they did in the last few games of last season. His keeping is really superb and stunning to watch at times, especially in the one day stuff.

1) I think this raises an interesting point as in recent times the England management have seemed very reluctant to use the county system to develop players once they have been identified as prospects and inducted into the setup. I understand the need to manage workloads etc. but think they can be overly protective at the expense of players gaining confidence and/or experience. The 'closed shop' accusations have some basis in my opinion, the setup all looks a bit insular right now

2) Depending on their overseas situation, I can see Hampshire going this way more often next season unless Will Smith becomes an immediate fixture in the middle order

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[uknsaunders]

Flower is nothing but ruthless. With the series gone he might send Anderson off for a break and drop KP/Prior. More likely he will keep them until the end of the series and make it clear they are playing for their futures. Look at Compton and how decisive Flower was. He won't take it lightly though.

[Manormanic]

I think Buttler may be seen as a better prospect with the gloves in the long run but a bit more 'raw' in the longer form than Bairstow. I imagine they are working intensely on bringing his all round game up to scratch. Being first choice at Lancashire should certainly help next season

they're much of a muchness with the gloves at the moment, but I think they view Bairstow as the more likely test run scorer, whilst they prefer Buttler's ability s a finisher in the one day stuff.

[mdg20]

it wasnt his coming out that affected Davies, it was Maynards death. He got depression and was on the verge of quitting cricket. His parents talked him into taking a winter off to gather his thoughts. He therefore didnt tour with England or go on the Lions / Peformce squad tour, the lieks of Bairstow then took their chance to push for the number 2 spot. I agree he is the next best for England and is the only other genuine keeper batsmen other than perhaps Keiswetter.

However im not sure Prior should be dropped, certainly not unless most of the others are dropped aswell. Not sure you can single him out for one bad test series and not the others

[Sam]

1) I think this raises an interesting point as in recent times the England management have seemed very reluctant to use the county system to develop players once they have been identified as prospects and inducted into the setup. I understand the need to manage workloads etc. but think they can be overly protective at the expense of players gaining confidence and/or experience. The 'closed shop' accusations have some basis in my opinion, the setup all looks a bit insular right now

2) Depending on their overseas situation, I can see Hampshire going this way more often next season unless Will Smith becomes an immediate fixture in the middle order

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Last I heard they were talking to 3 overseas bowlers so there should potentially be a gap there for him depending on who they pick for the batting department.

[WalkingWicket37]

Agreed, neither of them good enough to merit consideration


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At the moment, in time Bates will only improve and he may well force himself into consideration, if not the side. He has a first class hundred so he's no mug with the bat by any means.

As for Wheater I didn't say he was good enough to be considered, he was more to highlight the batting/keeping dilemma of the modern game.

I'm really hoping they pick both of them again in the starting team this year as they did in the last few games of last season. His keeping is really superb and stunning to watch at times, especially in the one day stuff.

In an ideal world they'd pick just Bates and let his batting develop but I can't see that happening. I really do rate him as a keeper (nice bloke too)

[Vitas Cricket]

Let's not forget Mark Boucher looked like a rabbit in the headlights when he started his test career. Truly awful behind the stumps for his first few overseas tours. He worked incredibly hard and forged himself into one of the all time greats. 555 tests dismissals will stand as a record for a very long time, if not forever.

So I see no problem blooding any potential young replacement, providing they are given the time and opportunity to work hard to improve their skills and prove they have what it takes, not just whipped out of the team at the first opportunity like Compton.