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[The_Bird]

In boxing it is very easy to duck and avoid fighters and plan your career route to being a world champion without really fighting the best. You can be a recognised world champion without being the best.

How people define world class is probably the issue here.


Mayweather is World class, light years above everyone in and around his weight class. He goes up in weight he goes down in weight but still destroys people. A boxer that bloomed late and won a world title such as David Haye is not world class and will never be considered world class. He just won a title and performed at the time that was perfect for him. He didn't beat everyone around him and rise to the top. He beat a freak who no else would fight.


Dale Steyn is world class.

[Vic Nicholas]

Anderson has played four tests against said opposition, which is hardly a statistical variant!  But why let facts bother you, eh? 

But no Australian player (other than Clarke) has played any.

Give Mitch Johnson and Ryan Harris four tests against either Banglas or Zimbos and let's see what happens.

Johnson's average would go down to the 26s. Ryan Harris would go close to under 20.00.

[Manormanic]

But no Australian player (other than Clarke) has played any.

Give Mitch Johnson and Ryan Harris four tests against either Banglas or Zimbos and let's see what happens.

Johnson's average would go down to the 26s. Ryan Harris would go close to under 20.00.

Oddly, whilst you'd think that might be the case, in practice it would likely make limited difference to either.  Even if we were talking about a side being blown away for 150 twice - and Bangladesh tend to do a bit better in their home tests because of the torpid pitches - thats 15 per wicket, so on a four way split of the bag 5/75...hardly enough to make a massive difference in a career average.

[ProCricketer1982]

Let's knock this on the head once and for all.

James Anderson vs Australia:

season 2006/07  3 6 93.2 18 413 5 3/98 3/110 82.60
season 2009  5 8 158.0 38 542 12 5/80 6/127 45.16
season 2010/11  5 10 213.1 50 625 24 4/44 7/127 26.04
season 2013  5 10 205.4 43 651 22 5/73 10/158 29.59
season 2013/14  5 10 190.3 43 615 14 4/67 4/93 43.92

Overall Record vs Australia:
2006-2014 23 44 860.4 192 2846 77 5/73 10/158 36.96 


Mitchell Johnson vs England

season 2009  5 9 162.1 15 651 20 5/69 6/99 32.55
season 2010/11  4 6 136.3 22 554 15 6/38 9/82 36.93 
season 2013/14  5 10 188.4 51 517 37 7/40 9/103 13.97 

Overall record vs England
filtered 2009-2014 14 25 487.2 88 1722 72 7/40 9/82 23.91

In this instance, the stats do not lie.

MJ's record is superior to Anderson's and by a long way. Their overall averages against all nations are closer ...a difference of about 2 runs per wicket, but Johnson (nor any other Australian player aside from M. Clarke) has ever played against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe like the English lads have. So the gap would be even wider if all things were equal.

As for Harris, he has taken wickets against everyone, everywhere at an average and strike rate that puts him up there with the best. To suggest he is not world class is seriously delusional.

I'd take Harris in my world xi. He's always been a good bowler and this series he's shown that if he didn't haven't knackered knee he'd be right up there. Unfortunately he's 34 and his knee is (No Swearing Please) but he is class. I know who I'd have if you listed all the Aussie and eng bowlers. Johnson, Anderson,broad aren't even close to Harris.

I've never rated Anderson as a world class bowler. He's a poor mans Steyn in my opinion. He's not as quick so swings it more. He is a international class bowler but not world class. IMO there are very very few world class bowlers about, some have spells where they take wickets etc but do they have consistency. I'd say Harris has shown that even with his fitness issues. Anderson and Johnson have shown that on their day they tear people apart but off their day they are fodder. 2010-11 doesn't make Mitch a bad bOwler but 2013 doesn't make Anderson a bad bowler. In fairness to Johnson he's come back far better than I thought he ever could but his bowling wasn't that good this series if people are honest. He got the tail out sure and fair play but he was a bit wild most of the time (just not wild like 2010/11). Just my opinion. I'm sure awp is the expert and will tell us what we should think.

Steyn and Harris opening with mortal and philanderer.. All rounder may or may not be needed but it'd be interesting to hear who the best all rounders are currently now the treat mans gone. Spinner would have to be the pak one unfortunately now swanns swanned off. No one else even close spinner wise. England's are poo, aus one is poo, Indians are poo.

[tushar sehgal]

I'd take Harris in my world xi. He's always been a good bowler and this series he's shown that if he didn't haven't knackered knee he'd be right up there. Unfortunately he's 34 and his knee is (No Swearing Please) but he is class. I know who I'd have if you listed all the Aussie and eng bowlers. Johnson, Anderson,broad aren't even close to Harris.

I've never rated Anderson as a world class bowler. He's a poor mans Steyn in my opinion. He's not as quick so swings it more. He is a international class bowler but not world class. IMO there are very very few world class bowlers about, some have spells where they take wickets etc but do they have consistency. I'd say Harris has shown that even with his fitness issues. Anderson and Johnson have shown that on their day they tear people apart but off their day they are fodder. 2010-11 doesn't make Mitch a bad bOwler but 2013 doesn't make Anderson a bad bowler. In fairness to Johnson he's come back far better than I thought he ever could but his bowling wasn't that good this series if people are honest. He got the tail out sure and fair play but he was a bit wild most of the time (just not wild like 2010/11). Just my opinion. I'm sure awp is the expert and will tell us what we should think.

Steyn and Harris opening with mortal and philanderer.. All rounder may or may not be needed but it'd be interesting to hear who the best all rounders are currently now the treat mans gone. Spinner would have to be the pak one unfortunately now swanns swanned off. No one else even close spinner wise. England's are poo, aus one is poo, Indians are poo.

All rounder for a world XI now that Kallis is gone would be incredibly tough pick....thoughts about Angelo Matthew? not world class but good enough i guess!!

Spinwise only decent ones India has are Ojha, Mishra and Ashwin. I can't stand Mishra and Ashwin, Ojha seems to never really get a decent go at the test level. Lyon might develop into a better spinner more he plays and feels confident but would he ever be great i doubt it...SA don't have a spinner either btw

[ProCricketer1982]

All rounder for a world XI now that Kallis is gone would be incredibly tough pick....thoughts about Angelo Matthew? not world class but good enough i guess!!

Spinwise only decent ones India has are Ojha, Mishra and Ashwin. I can't stand Mishra and Ashwin, Ojha seems to never really get a decent go at the test level. Lyon might develop into a better spinner more he plays and feels confident but would he ever be great i doubt it...SA don't have a spinner either btw

No one does other than pak (ajmal), that's why he'd have to be in the world xi as spinner. All rounder is hard. Angelo Matthews?? Really?  Isn't he military medium and lowish order batsman? Watto would beat him surely? Trying to think what genuine all round quality there is tbh..

Matthews (as you mentioned him)
Mclaren
Stokes (just cause he's appeared
Al hasan
Watto

Anyone else?

[tushar sehgal]

No one does other than pak (ajmal), that's why he'd have to be in the world xi as spinner. All rounder is hard. Angelo Matthews?? Really?  Isn't he military medium and lowish order batsman? Watto would beat him surely? Trying to think what genuine all round quality there is tbh..

Matthews (as you mentioned him)
Mclaren
Stokes (just cause he's appeared
Al hasan
Watto

Anyone else?

Honestly only reason I mentioned Matthews was because I couldn't think anyone other than English and Aussie ones....None in India, Pak, WI really that leave SL, SA, Zim, Banglas, NZ....not a lot to pick from really...

When I pick players from other teams only criteria is if they were playing against India who wouldn't I want to be playing....doesn't always work lol

[ProCricketer1982]

Honestly only reason I mentioned Matthews was because I couldn't think anyone other than English and Aussie ones....None in India, Pak, WI really that leave SL, SA, Zim, Banglas, NZ....not a lot to pick from really...

When I pick players from other teams only criteria is if they were playing against India who wouldn't I want to be playing....doesn't always work lol

lol, I'm struggling to tbh.

[The_Bird]

Best allrounder currently is Ashwin.


Averages 40 with the bat, 27 with the ball.

104 wickets in 18 tests, Better than quite a lot.

The stats are better than most. Not saying he's the best but the stats say he's up there.

[ProCricketer1982]

Best allrounder currently is Ashwin.

Lol

God the world has a dearth of talent as I suspect stats probably back that up

[smilley792]

Hasn't Ashwin just been dropped by India though?

[cricketbadger]

I'd suggest we don't really read too much into Ashwins stats and status and the worlds leading allrounder. Without checking I'm sure his decent stats are due to him playing a lot of test cricket in India and against weakened sides at the time where he bowled and batted at his best, against the Aussies and twice against W.I

I'd also say that Matthews is slightly under-rated as a players. Bats well, bowls decent and am I right in thinking he's SL captain? Solid player coming off of the back of a big unbeaten ton in a pressure situation

[Johnny]

Dwayne Bravo?

[Manormanic]

Mathews bowls even less frequently than Watson though!

If you were picking a world XI - well, there would have to be a case for Shakib as the all rounder and four fast bowlers.  Yes Ajmal is a very good bowler, but not to the extent where this would be a terrible plan!

[cricketbadger]

I wasn't making the point for Matthews to replace Watson, just highlighting him as a decent allrounder, better than Bravo at least IMO. Bravo doesn't even play test cricket anymore unless I'm wrong?