Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
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skip1973

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2014, 12:47:39 AM »

Can you explain further about the trampoline theory being rubbish, I don't quite understand your theory?
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BigBlueMachine

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2014, 01:52:28 AM »

They go off sound i think most of the time. But sound and feel are totally two things yet people associate them as the same.

Just to back this up, I remember reading a study about soft and hard golf balls. The idea that soft golf balls give more feel. The study required golfers to play with a range of balls with ear defenders on so they couldn't hear anything. They then had to identify if the ball was hard or soft based purely on feel. It turned out that there was no difference and the golfers didn't get enough right for it not to be chance. Therefore feedback, or feel of the ball was purely made on the sound at contact.
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oz_soarer

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2014, 04:25:46 AM »

Are we in the 0.1% bracket for doing this video?  :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYgFFeR2HnQ

Always appreciate your honest opinion Paul.
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2014, 08:22:50 AM »

 As most of us are aware softer or if you like lighter pressed bats  have a different sound, also ball seams marks are a clue to how hard the blade is. Not wanting to be contradictory based on experience of having  brought and used many custom bat retail etc bats over many seasons  softer/ lighter pressed bats  IMO do open up sooner.
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Aldred Cricket Bats

Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2014, 11:13:09 AM »

I personally care about grading because I fear makers/retailers are 99.9% of the time, just looking to make the most they can. If that means making a ugly bat a grade 1/2 and saying it's based on 'performance', or saying 'ah, but there are not guidelines so we can do what we want', then to me they are just saying 'pay up or shut up'.


While people then turn around saying 'ah, so just go somewhere else then, market forces blah blah'... does that really work?? no.. You know as well as I do that all that happens is people just keep raising the prices and boom.. suddenly we the consumer are paying more and more and there is nothing you can do about it.

That's why I get annoyed when I see bats that don't seem value for money BUT it is a personal opinion and I suspect most people don't care and merely care about telling people 'I payed £300 for this, it must be better than yours'.
Each to their own, but this is what retailers thrive off as these are the customers to target and cash in.

(not saying it's any one retailers fault, just the way our western economies are now. All about the profit and not about actually providing genuine competition. we all want to earn 100k a year for doing feck all and that's what business leaders are aiming for.. max profit for as little work as possible.)

Ok just came across this thread from a while ago. Pro is right you need to grade the willow to keep things in some sort of perspective of pricing. You wouldnt buy a paste diamond ring at the same price as a top end diamond. It is true that unfortunately people in industry are in the main trying to make maximum profit for doing stuff all. This comes down to share holders etc so they need to to be able to feed all the hungry mouths looking for return in their company. These people investing give these companies state of the art industrial units and factories churning out products at a rapid rate. I noticed jaguar on the news the other day opening a new factory with the ability to turn an engine out every 40 seconds or something, just incredible.
  In the bat business I am relatively new to it and have no investors. The only financial investor is me and I have invested more time than money can buy to learn the process, and am still learning. In an ideal world everyone would buy there bats from their local bat maker and not opting for labels because the professionals are using them as a hell of a lot of those aren't even the label that are on them and secondly there are not many professionals who actually get bats made for them anymore, and all the imports that come over from India and Pakistan and often not legitimately as many are basically smuggled in and no taxes paid on them.
  Now the cost of willow increases every year unfortunately. Most of this I imagine is down to wage increases etc. now here's something to think about, I may be wrong but if you had a good quality local bat maker of which most areas would have had one at one time and the majority of local people went to him to make your bat by hand to your specs that would guarantee him steady income every year, therefore he would be in a position to be able to drop his prices, that's presuming that he isn't greedy and is happy making a good steady living and not after world domination with his product (I'd certainly be happy with that for sure). This would open up the market to more bespoke companies and help keep more of our english willow in this country.
   People are nieave in this day and age I'm afraid. It's like the golf industry you see hundreds of golfers walking round with the most expensive kit that you could possibly buy yet they are still hacking it around struggling to play to 20 handicap, my grandad was Derbyshire champion and he had an old set of bladed clubs and a pencil bag to carry them in and played off scratch, they don't realise that it's what's holding onto the club that makes the real impact. It's the same with a cricket bat. You have to work hard to get good there is no instant fix, there is no bat that will suddenly make you into kumar sangakkara or Matthew Hayden the only way to get better is practice, Yes certain bats give you a confidence when you know it's a performer for sure. I only ever had one bat I didn't get on with and that was a duncan fearnley 405, it was a plank and I was gutted as i worshipped fearnley bats but didn't realise at the time he wasn't making them anymore. Now when I was playing professionally I started with gray nicholls and then Was with chase when robin smith started that up. Players just got sent bats from their sponsor in the weight range they wanted and got on with it, very very rarely did they ditch them because they were the wrong shape or the swell was in the wrong place. They were playing on fast county and international tracks with a shape of bat that today people would say we're suitable for low bounce tracks. The fact is they were bloody good players and got on with it. A bad workman always blames his tools.
  I would advise anyone to talk to their bat maker and if they understand the game and what your like as a player they will have some idea of producing a bat that would be as good as any professionals bat if they can press properly and are fitting quality handles.
   I am an idealist and someone who is probably not realistic. I personally as bat maker would love to have constant regular work enabling me to take less profit on each item but keeping me going every day of the week consistently. For me it's a lifestyle, I'm not a executive business minded person. I know what I want and I am stubborn and will bite my nose off to spite my face in many ways, I've always done it I wouldn't play cricket for money when I came out the professional game because I didn't agree with it, I couldn't take money from my team mates. I could have made a fortune when I needed it and yet still when I play the odd game I get abused because people don't believe I'm not playing for money. That sums it up to me it's the way of the world now that people think everything has to be done because of money. Hence I'm an idealist not a millionaire I want to do this because I love it, I want to help give people advise not only on bats but cricket when they come to see me because I have been fortunate to have played for a living
  So to finish this little piece trust your small bat makers here in the UK they work hard, be loyal you will get looked after. Work hard at your game there is no quick fix getting rid of a bat because your not scoring runs with it, it isn't the reason behind the slump look closer to home as an individual. Changing your bat won't change the errors in your technique and judgement only practice can do that. The more you support UK products the better the chance that the prices will get better. Not with everyone obviously as not everyone will be doing this for the same reasons but theirs more chance.
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The Palmist

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #50 on: October 31, 2014, 11:42:57 AM »

Great post Mr A.
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Northern monkey

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2014, 12:05:00 PM »

Top post Mr Aldred
And your bats stand testament to the work you put in

Aldred Cricket Bats

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2014, 12:35:54 PM »

Thanks chaps only just saw that post last night when I had a look though when I got in. It's just something that interests me is how technology and image has taken over our traditional skills. I was talking to a customer yesterday who has a tailor business in London and he was saying the same thing that small workshops and craftsmen fascinate him. He pays for his own apprenticeships as if they get government funded ones they have to go to college and college is run by people being paid a lot of money who can't do the job and the course basically is about getting the boxes ticked and the kids out the door and the funding money in. You have to learn a trade over the space of 4 or five years and then keep developing and learning. It takes them longer to train the bad habits out of them than it does to train them the good ones. It's also a mindset of wanting to produce quality regardless. He spoke about an old guy who used to make trousers for him. He was about 85 and had his own workshop in a shed in his back garden and used ancient machinery, all in top condition but old. He said if anyone had seen the set up they would have walked away as it wouldn't have looked like he could do the job but that workshop was set up perfectly for the way he had worked his entire life and you wouldn't have got a better product made anywhere else. It amazes me that fashions technology and image has over the years taken presidency over craft knowledge skill and quality. In my mind it's down to money and greed. Greed is an evil thing, money is good if your happy with your life, craving for more creates issues in the world. I do have a feeling that people are now starting to revert back to liking traditional skills and crafts and are wanting a high quality product for a fair price, I am certain about it. It's just down to small companies like myself to keep clinging on by our fingernails until that time comes.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2014, 12:52:59 PM »

You should read Owen Jones' book, The Establishment, Mr Aldred.
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Aldred Cricket Bats

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2014, 01:23:22 PM »

Really bats? What's that telling us then
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Gingerbusiness

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2014, 01:47:00 PM »

Thanks chaps only just saw that post last night when I had a look though when I got in. It's just something that interests me is how technology and image has taken over our traditional skills. I was talking to a customer yesterday who has a tailor business in London and he was saying the same thing that small workshops and craftsmen fascinate him.

"He pays for his own apprenticeships as if they get government funded ones they have to go to college and college is run by people being paid a lot of money who can't do the job and the course basically is about getting the boxes ticked and the kids out the door and the funding money in." - CORRECT!

You have to learn a trade over the space of 4 or five years and then keep developing and learning. It takes them longer to train the bad habits out of them than it does to train them the good ones. It's also a mindset of wanting to produce quality regardless. He spoke about an old guy who used to make trousers for him. He was about 85 and had his own workshop in a shed in his back garden and used ancient machinery, all in top condition but old. He said if anyone had seen the set up they would have walked away as it wouldn't have looked like he could do the job but that workshop was set up perfectly for the way he had worked his entire life and you wouldn't have got a better product made anywhere else.

"It amazes me that fashions technology and image has over the years taken presidency over craft knowledge skill and quality. In my mind it's down to money and greed. Greed is an evil thing, money is good if your happy with your life, craving for more creates issues in the world. I do have a feeling that people are now starting to revert back to liking traditional skills and crafts and are wanting a high quality product for a fair price, I am certain about it. It's just down to small companies like myself to keep clinging on by our fingernails until that time comes." - A MAN AFTER MY OWN HEART!

Brilliant stuff here. The man speaks truth!

The whole world, as I see it, is influenced by the 'Apple Generation'. People who are willing to rely on machinery for everything because it makes life 'simple'. The simplest example of this is the spell-checker included with MS Word. I blame this as one of the single most damaging tools to a child's literacy.

Yes, machines are a great tool - and used as part of any process, can enrich the lives of the masses, but technology can also be blamed for a partial breakdown in societal values.

Anyone who has seen a Master Craftsman at work, working with any raw material, should appreciate the reason why these people SHOULD be paid a lot more than they do.

This is a serious philosophical question... one which I would like to see take place between Steve Jobs, Stephen Hawking and the Pope...
« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 01:49:20 PM by Gingerbusiness »
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The Palmist

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2014, 01:47:22 PM »

It amazes me that fashions technology and image has over the years taken presidency over craft knowledge skill and quality. In my mind it's down to money and greed. Greed is an evil thing, money is good if your happy with your life, craving for more creates issues in the world. I do have a feeling that people are now starting to revert back to liking traditional skills and crafts and are wanting a high quality product for a fair price, I am certain about it. It's just down to small companies like myself to keep clinging on by our fingernails until that time comes.
For the average punter, yes but majority still value tradition and I believe the trend is shifting back. Old is Cool again [or will be].
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The Palmist

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2014, 01:51:37 PM »

This is a serious philosophical question... one which I would like to see take place between Steve Jobs, Stephen Hawking and the Pope...
Steve Jobs is dead, is he being represented via a medium?
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Gingerbusiness

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2014, 01:56:41 PM »

I said I'd like to see it. I don't think the pope would be seen dead in a room with Stephen Hawking who is probably the most world renouned theoretical physicist...
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Aldred Cricket Bats

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Re: Why do we care so much about the grading on a bat?
« Reply #59 on: October 31, 2014, 02:33:27 PM »

Brilliant stuff here. The man speaks truth!

The whole world, as I see it, is influenced by the 'Apple Generation'. People who are willing to rely on machinery for everything because it makes life 'simple'. The simplest example of this is the spell-checker included with MS Word. I blame this as one of the single most damaging tools to a child's literacy.

Yes, machines are a great tool - and used as part of any process, can enrich the lives of the masses, but technology can also be blamed for a partial breakdown in societal values.

Anyone who has seen a Master Craftsman at work, working with any raw material, should appreciate the reason why these people SHOULD be paid a lot more than they do.

This is a serious philosophical question... one which I would like to see take place between Steve Jobs, Stephen Hawking and the Pope...

Yes it is fascinating watching a craftsman work. I can watch someone create something for hours and learn new skills and ideas by watching them work. It only enhances what you do in your own trade as something seems to rub off be it something you would do or something that you personally wouldn't do. What appears the simplest task on appears simple because they have spent 100s of hours mastering it and then Mastering it some more. Watch a top plasterer they are incredible the precision of work and it looks effortless when in fact it's hard work and they can judge the plaster drying time by eye, not a moisture meter by eyes and touch, it's a great great skill. Likewise any traditional trade has its own touches that cannot be replicated by technology.
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