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[Giraffe208]

I think the comments from Eddie were quite well thought out. The problem is it appears on another Salix thread and does make it look like a Salix attack which on this occasion I don't think it is.

I think it is a genuine attempt to bring a topic of discussion about grading and the necessity of uniformity and this quite possibly isn't the right thread for it.

I know Chris mentioned a while ago that Salix quite often have to 'downgrade' clefts once they have been cleaned up and I don't doubt this is a case for a lot of bat makers. Some may or may not 'upgrade' and what has been rightly pointed out is that a business needs to be profitable. It comes back to the age old statement of value for the consumer which gets brought up every week or so and if Chris is happy with the purchase, especially as it was a selected cleft then happy days, he's onto a winner.

We are spoiled for choice by the amount of G2 and G3 bats being sold by sponsors that are ridiculous value and I guess then our expectation of a G1 is that much higher.

I think it looks a lovely bat. Would I pay that money for it, no but that's because I'm tight and the wife would kill me! Therefore I pick up what I consider value in the G2/3 range and if it doesn't quite go as well as a G1 then that means I have to work harder to score my runs!

[SOULMAN1012]

It is neither petty nor spiteful.

It is simply shining a light on a sharp practice (which as you've seen, many forum members agree is widespread). Just because Chris loses his cool doesn't mean the post isn't valid nor reasonable.

Why not turn on Chris for his (quite spiteful and petty statement) that I am 'slanderous' and am 'ignorant'. I've said nothing of the sort to him.

I would suggest you re-read your post mate. You stated that Salix are selling a lowers grade product as a higher grade to make more money, your words buddy.

The other point I do not come on here and just slag off a brand. It's very evident that you have a couple of brands that are favourites of yours and your quite happy to compliment there products all the time. I do not criticise these or other brands at any point. You seem to find it impossible to not mention a negative about the Salix brand or HH brand.

If people want to turn on me for my views that's there choice, but at the end of the day we all have a choice. You do not like the brand, what we do, how we charge or what ever but you know nothing about the brand or the people that run it. That's what annoys me, there friends of mine and to hear you say or suggest that they make money by upgrading annoys me.

[skip1973]

It is neither petty nor spiteful.

It is simply shining a light on a sharp practice (which as you've seen, many forum members agree is widespread). Just because Chris loses his cool doesn't mean the post isn't valid nor reasonable.

Why not turn on Chris for his (quite spiteful and petty statement) that I am 'slanderous' and am 'ignorant'. I've said nothing of the sort to him.

"So,if you work this through, Wrights are sending a consignment of mixed clefts, of which this one would be G2/3, Salix are then re-selling this as G1, and many others from the small sample we've seen.
Salix it appears are selling clefts they buy as G2/3 as G1.
Is this not the same as buying a pig and selling it as a prize bull?"
That is quite libellous and entering very dangerous territory.

[Ciaran]

Guys, let's get the topic back on track please.

[fasteddie]

I would suggest you re-read your post mate. You stated that Salix are selling a lowers grade product as a higher grade to make more money, your words buddy.

The other point I do not come on here and just slag off a brand. It's very evident that you have a couple of brands that are favourites of yours and your quite happy to compliment there products all the time. I do not criticise these or other brands at any point. You seem to find it impossible to not mention a negative about the Salix brand or HH brand.

If people want to turn on me for my views that's there choice, but at the end of the day we all have a choice. You do not like the brand, what we do, how we charge or what ever but you know nothing about the brand or the people that run it. That's what annoys me, there friends of mine and to hear you say or suggest that they make money by upgrading annoys me.

Hang-on Chris. Salix, like many others, are up-grading their bats. Why would they do that? The only reason is to charge more. If that was NOT the purpose then they would charge G2/3 prices for what are clearly G2/3 clefts.
It's clear and simple.
You either charge a customer the fair price for the product, or re-brand it as a higher grade and trouser the extra.

Remember the financial crisis? Investment Banks where grading packaged products on THEIR rating, NOT the rating of the constituent parts. Then pumping them to all an sundry. This was mis-selling on a global scale.

This is the same, but slightly more local. I recall having a really good debate on this with an Prof of Banking. We both agreed that there was wide spread mis-selling but that it had yet to be bought to light. This was in 2006, months before it went pop. I'm on good ground when it comes to that. CASS MSc, you see (that's just to reply to your comment that I am tick). Don't call me spiteful, ignorant, or an eejiot. I'm none.

Salix and many others, are re-grading products and pumping them at highly inflated prices. That's it.
If this offends you then I'm terribly sorry.

If someone came on here and pumped a brand who where doing the same, they would get slaughtered. But Salix seem to have this Ready Brek kind of force field. The G1 bat that chap got, which the vast majority said was G3, is an example of someone else calling out Kember and his brand. Not me.

It's mis-selling. That's all. Nothing spiteful, just calling it out.

So, to clarify my earlier post;

This is evidence of mis-selling by NOT ONLY SALIX but it appears, many other brands. Maybe the industry needs to look at a kite mark for grading. This would protect the consumer...ect ect.

I hope this clears-up the lack of understanding. Again, it's not personal, but you pumped this as G1 (it's not) and that is the window upon which we can shine a light on the highly dubious practice of upgrading/mis-selling.

Best regards

Matt.

[tim2000s]

Right gents, I think we've had enough of this argument. I'm locking this thread.

On the point of grading, the only standard of grading applied is that by Wrights. This is not a registered standard nor is it an industry standard, as there are alternative willow merchants. Wrights just happens to be the largest.

As such, you could consider grading to be a wild west, and therefore the grading that a batmaker applies is entirely up to them. The vast majority of the buying public doesn't know and doesn't care whether their grade 1 started life as a grade 3 cleft, especially if, when they use it, it looks like a G1 and they find it does what they want it to. GN uses it's own willow and doesn't seem to mention what we consider the grades to be in any of their literature.

It is therefore not miss-selling per se. If there was a rule that trading standards could apply, then I think you would have a case Eddie. There isn't, so, however much you might consider it unfair or dishonest, there is nothing saying it can't be done. 

This is an endless discussion, and I have no doubt that all batmakers do it to some extent, but there is nothing to say that they shouldn't. They are out to remain in business first and foremost and to do that means they have to make money. It's not like an illegal bat is being sold as legal, which would be a much bigger issue.