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[sgcricket]

can we stop with the holier than thou attitude. its really prejudicial and based on half-knowledge.

[Nmcgee]

Love it. The comments are always more entertaining than the tweets themselves.

I must say, even watching Murali bowl these days, I find it hard to believe that everything is 100% legit and legal.

[Gingerbusiness]

Vaughan isn't the issue here.

the issue here is that there are a large number of bowlers around the world who are chucking it, not bowling it. This isn't a racist comment. In England because of the way we are, guys with unusual actions don't make it beyond first class cricket. There are loads of terrible actions in club cricket - we have one at our club - he bowls nicely most of the time, but his effort ball is a massive throw. I am hugely uncomfortable about it and have raised it several times...

Buzz - I agree completely with RichTheKeeper and yourself. The ICC should be doing more to maintain continuity.

I do appreciate the purist view of the bowling action. There is something pure about cricket and its origins which must be safeguarded at all costs. However, I also believe in innovation and performance and pushing the limits to breaking point. Every other sport does this. F1 being prime example. This is a problem with the laws, and the enforcement of them, not with the individual. Everyone is always looking for an 'edge'.

This discussion will rage on far beyond this issue however some questions will always remain;

1. What IS a throw? (Seriously, even now I am not sure the authorities know!)
2. Why does the ICC tip-toe around certain nations and their players?
3. Why do ALL nations not take responsibility for their players (In all aspects of the game)?
4. Why are these players not tested, and the results published, to put everyone's mind at ease? (Though admittedly, they need to find a way of testing video replay as players do change their actions).
5. Why are some players 'punished' and others allowed to continue without testing etc?

[Manormanic]

I think cricket - not just international or first class cricket but the club game as well - finds itself at something of a crossroads over the issue of throwing and there is a narrow window in which to do something about it before the game descends into open season for chuckers.  If that happens...

In the professional game, I agree entirely that boards are too motivated by self interest - as soon as the bowler who might win matches for them has his action questioned, the race card is played.  Really, the likes of Muralitharan, Ajmal, Sennanayaka etc should never have made it to international cricket with the actions that they did.  At least in England some have been rooted out, though even with that there are players like James Kirtley who have reached the county game before being called.

Its even worse in the club game.  The number of TVL bowlers with dodgy actions (no, not Phil!) is getting increasingly worrying - I umpired twenty overs for our Twos last weekend having made it back early and three of the four bowlers used had noticeable kinks in their actions.  But there is no appetite to do anything about it!  How the clubs can front up to allowing such lads to bowl in league cricket I have no idea...

[Manormanic]

I must say, even watching Murali bowl these days, I find it hard to believe that everything is 100% legit and legal.

Worst thing about Muchichuckalot is that there is video out there of him bowling leg spin and his supposed deformed arm is arrow straight!

[tim2000s]

can we stop with the holier than thou attitude. its really prejudicial and based on half-knowledge.

There isn't a "holier than thou" attitude here. You can clearly see chucking (there, I've used the word) going on from Ajmal, Narine, Ashwin, and others, when they are delivering certain balls. The only prejudice here is against illegal actions and throwing (yes, I've used that word too) the ball. Half knowledge would suggest that they were doing something that wasn't fully transparent, and yet there is plenty of widely available footage of what, on any given Sunday, would cause anger and complaint in friendly cricket, let alone international cricket.

So, no we aren't going to stop with it. There is very clear straightening of the arm and it is also more than the 15 degrees "allowed" by the ICC. Or are you telling us our eyes are wrong? I'd suggest there is a good reason why not all bowlers are attempting to bowl Doosras...

[skip1973]

Worst thing about Muchichuckalot is that there is video out there of him bowling leg spin and his supposed deformed arm is arrow straight!

Seemed to straighten ok when he threw a ball in the field too.

[Gingerbusiness]

I think cricket - not just international or first class cricket but the club game as well - finds itself at something of a crossroads over the issue of throwing and there is a narrow window in which to do something about it before the game descends into open season for chuckers.  If that happens...

In the professional game, I agree entirely that boards are too motivated by self interest - as soon as the bowler who might win matches for them has his action questioned, the race card is played.  Really, the likes of Muralitharan, Ajmal, Sennanayaka etc should never have made it to international cricket with the actions that they did.  At least in England some have been rooted out, though even with that there are players like James Kirtley who have reached the county game before being called.

Its even worse in the club game.  The number of TVL bowlers with dodgy actions (no, not Phil!) is getting increasingly worrying - I umpired twenty overs for our Twos last weekend having made it back early and three of the four bowlers used had noticeable kinks in their actions.  But there is no appetite to do anything about it!  How the clubs can front up to allowing such lads to bowl in league cricket I have no idea...

Reminds me of a certain West Indian at Kew... He was lightning... With his baseball pitch!

[skip1973]

Botha is still atrocious.

[Manormanic]

So, no we aren't going to stop with it. There is very clear straightening of the arm and it is also more than the 15 degrees "allowed" by the ICC. Or are you telling us our eyes are wrong? I'd suggest there is a good reason why not all bowlers are attempting to bowl Doosras...

Not sure I've actually seen a legitimate proper doosra, as opposed to little leg cutters bowlers by spinners; even the likes of Saqlain Mushtaq had some questions about their actions when they sent one the other way!

[123*]

Blatant chuck, practice it yourself, put your arm in the position that Ajmal's is then try to bowl without straightening it, impossible to get the speed he gets in my opinion (even if he's been doing it for years and has adapted, he's a special bowler blah blah blah). If he was playing on a Saturday I'd be asking for him to be called!

[Manormanic]

Reminds me of a certain West Indian at Kew... He was lightning... With his baseball pitch!

Aye - and it was as near as anything impossible to pick up his short ball because it came from more or less behind his head. 

[Nmcgee]

And let's not forget how Daryl Hair was practically attacked and somewhat ostracised when he called no ball as umpire.  Couldn't have filled the umpiring community with confidence to follow suit if they felt an action was questionable.

I still remember seeing people in the crowd holding large, homemade signs reading 'HAIR OR NO HAIR, THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH MURALIS BALLS'

[csnew]

The game wasn't broadcast live, so ajmal knew the umpires would be too scared to call a no ball so he decided to chuck even more. Doubt any county umpire would have the guts to call him either.

Unless it's called on the international circuit (which I highly doubt) he's free to chuck even more

[Gingerbusiness]

Aye - and it was as near as anything impossible to pick up his short ball because it came from more or less behind his head.

When he first came over, played against him and hooked a normal delivery for 4 off him at their place, next one crashed into the side of my helmet about 20mph quicker. I never saw it. Quick arm... Quicker elbow!