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[mohawks94]

Was hoping to canvas some opinions on here, as there have been some things concerning me with my club's recent two academy fixtures. If anyone has the time to trawl through this and share views, it is much appreciated!


Firstly, team selection. When choosing my teams (I am my club's academy captain) I was told it would be 'one or two adults' and the rest colts, and that this had been agreed on by both us and the opposition. First game, a couple of weeks ago, we had myself (20), two 16 year olds, three 15 year olds and five 14 year olds. The opposition had six adults and five colts. On that occasion we managed to creep home with one ball to spare and 2 wickets remaining. Yesterday, I arrived at their ground for the return fixture, and their captain told me that they actually had an older team for this match than the previous one. I had a younger team at my disposal, with one of the 15 year olds and a 14 year old dropping out, to be replaced with a pair of under 13s (great credit to them for playing very well), one of whom opened the batting and the other the bowling. Our opposition had drafted in three different adults compared to the last game, two of whom were in the top 3 batting, and then the other one I suspect bowls in their first team, with the other two also playing in their top league teams. On this occasion we lost after a horrible collapse against two spinners, one a county under 17 who moved from my club to our opposition, and the other aforementioned. On this matter, is it reasonable of me to feel that they were not really playing in the spirit of what was agreed, by having a considerably older and more experienced team on both occasions?


Secondly, their captain was interfering somewhat with my field placings, and twice came and complained to the umpires about it. I had a fielder, an under 14, placed at a shortish extra cover, probably about 20 yards away from the bat, because I am aware of the close fielding restrictions in place regarding colts. The issue I had was that there was no way my fielder was within 11 yards, and their captains viewpoint was from possibly the worst angle for judging the distance, coming from the direction of fine leg in the pavilion. I spoke with the umpire from my club, and their player who was doing the other end at the time, and they didn't have any problem with it. Does anyone agree that my annoyance at this is reasonable?


Lastly, the conduct and attitude of some of the opposition was of a concern, and against me personally somewhat unpleasant for want of a better word. When we took drinks, the opposition were 77-7 from 20 overs. After 21 they were 80-8, and I brought myself on. Normally I bowl leg spin, but because of cuts on spinning fingers from the previous day, I bowled seam. I am not the fastest, but I am no slouch and used to open the bowling for my district, and because it was an academy game, I bowled within my limits pace wise. I got two wickets in five balls to end the innings, one dragged on from outside off, the other a leg-cutter that dipped and was plum LBW, given by their player/umpire. Their captain, who was the LBW wicket, apparently went off swearing about the decision, and how it was wrong, when his own player gave him out and said he couldn't not give him out. The not out batsman was their captains son, who then challenged me as we walked off, asking whether it was necessary to bring myself on given the match situation. At that point I simply told him that I normally bowl leg spin, and that opposition in a league match would be ruthless, as I was on this occasion. One of their youth players, later on during tea as I walked past him to do some fitness work sarcastically applauded me for my bowling, which didn't surprise me as he had been lippy the entire time the previous game and from the boundary after he was dismissed. Whilst jogging laps (I am recovering from shin splints and felt the need to run to speed my recovery), one of their entourage boo-ed me as I went past. When I batted, besides the opposition keeper, who seems a thoroughly reasonable guy, and one of the players who my brother used to coach, I was met with a wall of abuse, nothing horrendous, but not really a good example to be setting to colts in my opinion.

So from this last lump, a) should I have perhaps not brought myself on? The games were organised to give players a taste of what to expect in senior cricket, and I feel that their batsmen did get a taste of mens cricket, as did my bowlers, and if their youngsters want to play mens cricket, they will have to deal with considerably faster bowlers than the way I bowled. b) Am I justified in thinking that they over-stepped the mark in targeting me during the tea interval? I try to set as good an example as possible to my players, on and off the field, and think that the opposition were somewhat out of order. c) Is targeting players something that should be allowed to happen within an academy match? The opposition captain is involved with the county set up as a co-ordinator, and did nothing to stop the excessive verbals towards myself and my colts.


My mother organises the academy matches, and she could see when I got in that I was unhappy with the way the opposition had conducted themselves, with a couple of exceptions, and that I was somewhat upset about being challenged over the way I captained, and we are now unsure about if we will organise any more matches against this team.

Thanks, Alex

[uknsaunders]

who were the teams involved?

[uknsaunders]

From what I can gather you are young and doing a great job of bringing players on, when you should be developing yourself. What I would say is in terms of Sunday cricket you have been a little ill-advised in this case. It's common practise to take the foot off the throat a little when you have them 5+ down for not many. Give your team mates a chance to have a bowl and basically get everybody involved. Part of mens cricket is fielding for 40 overs after all. It doesn't mean you have to feed them 20 overs of rubbish, just decide what is reasonable in the conditions and slam the brakes on when they get close.

What happened after is based on how you decided to play it. I think they over stepped the mark but they probably felt you hadn't played it in the right way. Chances are if you had let them get 130-150, then the Bucks bowler and 1st team spinner might of never come on.

I wouldn't blame yourself but your senior players need to be advising you a bit better.

[tim2000s]

I have to agree with Nick. As what amounts to a Sunday friendly, the opposition team would be expecting to have the opportunity to bat out a full 40 overs. They will have been a little cross that when they weren't doing well, they were trodden down further. There will also be an undercurrent that with (what they believed) a stronger team the last time around, they lost, so they were out for a little bit of revenge.

Still, you live and you learn. For future academy reference, if you find yourself in that position, you've probably a better idea how it might be played.

[Gingerbusiness]

Oh - If I had a pound for every time this has happened.

I think the issue here is that there is a 'specific' code of etiquette which 'Sunday games' are played under - which unless you have been educated about it would just pass you by. The tag line being 'Making a game of it'.

Our Sunday skipper had this problem a few years ago with a very young team (9 of them are now 1st XI players and very useful) as they were going out and stuffing teams - most with experienced players, and the oppositions didn't like it.

He had to be educated that Sunday games, outside of cups etc, are supposed to be fun, sociable etc. So what you might have seen as being a simple bowling change, might have been seen by the opposition as unsportsmanlike if you are a cut quicker and better than your other bowlers.

Usually every team has a few experienced players who could advise you when and where to slow down, accelerate, give a few runs etc but in an academy side, I can see the problem.

Unfortunately, we play one team in a regular Sunday fixture who play VERY hard against us (Sledging mainly but have openly criticised our club on their website) and they play their 1st XI every time they play us (We are a strong village team, they are a very weak village team) purely because when we 'tried to make a game of it' a few years ago - they took it that we were patronising them. Unfortunately, we cannot play colts against them anymore, so we are sending our Saturday 1s.

The moral here is - As a captain, sometimes you cannot make everyone happy but you try your best and sometimes you just need to put it down to experience

[george_parv]

I think you are in your rights and did nothing wrong, above comments suggesting you should have let them bat longer are wrong tbh their batting was obviously not sensible for them to be 8 down after 20 overs. I would have understood their argument if they were 4 or 5 down and you brought on 2 good pace bowlers who rattled through their bottom order but 2 wickets and just you bowling is absolutely fine. At the end of the day if you're going to bring on (No Swearing Please) bowlers for their (No Swearing Please) batsmen then it doesn't teach them anything

[mohawks94]

Cheers guys. All my people who were going to bowl had already, but because of the weather I was rotating them. My under 13 opening bowler got a couple of wickets, and everyone who bowled chipped in with one or two. Those who didn't bowl were the four of the top five batsmen, so I was doing my best to keep it reasonable for everyone.
With my background in ultimate frisbee, I am big on the spirit of the game, ultimate is completely based around it, which is why I felt marks were overstepped. I always aim to play hard but fair in both sports, so I think that your views in general are that I went a little too hard at the end of their innings? As a uni 1s player I am used to trying to keep the pressure on all the way to the end, so perhaps easing off may have been better advised. I can't take it back obviously, but the wickets the other bowlers took were largely getting people out, rather than getting themselves out, and it can only do my boys good in the long run.
Hopefully in subsequent matches I will put all this to good use, after all, we live and learn!

[Northern monkey]

Fair play to you at twenty years old for showing the maturity to first of all run the team, and secondly ask for opinions

[ProCricketer1982]

Perfect Sunday friendly.. 250 all out on the last ball, plays 249/251-9 with a winning run or run out off the last ball.

Everyone getting a bat and bowl, bowlers getting wickets and batsmen getting runs.

Skittle a team is utter rubbish for both sides. The skittles side learns nothing and won't generally try when bowling and the winning side just develops an ego.

Depends how you play your cricket I suppose

[Manormanic]

Its really tough this - you want to teach the kids the right way (hard but fair, fun etc) but are reliant on so many factors to make that happen.  We had a similar problem Sunday, playing against a local Academy side - they had seven adults, so did we, but their colts were all under 13 and ours were 14 year olds.  We adopted a simple rule - bad balls go, decent balls are blocked, everything is pitched up - we knew we'd win, but this way the kids were at least taught the right way to bowl/bat etc

[TangoWhiskey]

We had a pretty average game on Sunday. The oppo, who had rated themselves as medium strong on the conference, turned up with 7 and a whole load of confusion as to the whereabouts of the other 4.

Either way we let them bat first as they were optimistic that the rest would turn up later. We eventually bowled their 7 out for 198, which would have been a whole lot less if two run outs which were very clear and a couple of stumping a were given, but anyway 200odd makes a decent game of it.

They took a couple of early wickets and were looking at the possibility of an unlikely win when a huge shout for LBW went up. I was umpiring and turned it down, the bowler was left arm round and he was bowling very wide on the crease to avoid a foothole. It was close, possibly hitting leg stump, possibly missing and I decided it was not out. The batsman then went on to get 100* which won us the game but towards the end, they were appealing for everything and anything and the game descended into them slinging insults and accusations of cheating. I calmly offered to explain my decision and none of them would give me the time of day.

Point being, even if a team turns out with 7 and expecting nothing less than a friendly knock around, competition can get the better of anyone and occasionally things can boil over. Just try to develop a thick skin and remember you only have to play them twice a season.

It sounds like you are doing a sterling job and really helping the youngsters. Stick to those principles and I'm sure you'll be fine. 

[ProCricketer1982]

Its really tough this - you want to teach the kids the right way (hard but fair, fun etc) but are reliant on so many factors to make that happen.  We had a similar problem Sunday, playing against a local Academy side - they had seven adults, so did we, but their colts were all under 13 and ours were 14 year olds.  We adopted a simple rule - bad balls go, decent balls are blocked, everything is pitched up - we knew we'd win, but this way the kids were at least taught the right way to bowl/bat etc

Hats the way to play kids or bad bowlers. No slogging and only hit for 4 the really bad balls, the rest just play proper shots and milk. That way they enjoy their game but you still get runs. Still, unfortunately some just see 50's and 100's and get greedy. Meaningless tons on Sunday fellas.

[Seniorplayer]

Firstly with regard to playing in the spirit of what had been agreed and team selection the opposition could have been selected on availability when there captain informed you he had an older team did he explain the reason why also not that it would have made any difference you could have drawn his attention to the original agreement.
As for the opposition captain commenting on your field placings the umpire(s) should have told him they were in charge not him and told him to leave the field if they did not then your annoyance should be towards them.
As for the abuse from the opposition they were totally out of order particularly during the tea interval.
The way you captain your side is no business of the opposition and if this occurs again i would tell them as much.
Don,t get upset about it remember you did nothing wrong and if it was me i wouldn't play them again as by doing so  would send the wrong message IE it's okay to play against your team and be abusive.

[mohawks94]

Firstly with regard to playing in the spirit of what had been agreed and team selection the opposition could have been selected on availability when there captain informed you he had an older team did he explain the reason why also not that it would have made any difference you could have drawn his attention to the original agreement.

It was only when they arrived at ours, or we arrived at theirs, that we found out each time about their ratios. The first was on a bank holiday weekend, so you would expect availability to be a bit lower, but obviously this isnt a bank holiday weekend so you would expect stronger availability. I spoke with the umpires, who had no problem with the placing, and they did say as much to their captain, and when I spoke with our umpire, he said just to make sure that the fielder didn't creep closer every ball by not moving back before walking in.
My two under 13s showed the way with the bat tbh, I let comments get to me, as well as a tempting straight boundary! One opened the batting, and although he didnt score many runs, he looked solid at the crease and was in about 10 overs, whilst the other batted 10, and was in for about 15 overs, playing straight and solidly after opening the bowling and getting rid of two of their top 3. I make sure everyone gets something to do, such as in the last game one of our lads, who is a reasonable bat and a nippy bowler, bowled his 8 overs and batted 11, whereas this time he bowled 5 overs as that is his max spell, and didnt bowl again because the u14s and the u16s kept getting wickets. In both games I have batted 6, so I can for want of a better word tutor the not out batsman, and also hopefully help those less confident with the bat who are down the order.
I got a 60 in the first match, and to help introduce some of the senior values, bought a round, but instead of beers it was Dr Peppers, and I made sure that everyone felt a part of the team and had a good time. All the parents have asked if there are more fixtures for the academy team this year, so obviously they all enjoyed the games, which really is my main focus.

[jamesisapayne]

By the sound of it you're doing a fantastic job and should feel proud of the way you're going about the game. It's always a tricky one as although some teams appear to be playing for fun, most wouldn't think twice about smashing a young lad or bowling short if a win was on the cards.

The opposition skipper sounds like a bit of a plum tbh, I think you should concentrate on what you've been doing right rather than worrying about what he thinks.

For a young man to be asking these questions speaks volumes about you, keep it up