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[Stuey]

All teams need a good captain, the key to captaincy is to know when and how to make the right decisions. The right decision in an experienced and winning team might be to say as little as possible, let the settled batting line up and bowling attack just do their stuff and make the right call at the toss. In a young team if might be to stick with a batting line up (even in a losing run, assuming you've picked the right line up in the first place) so everyone feels settled and free perform and in the field taking yourself out of first slip and going to mid off to give the bowlers encouragement and making the right bowling changes at the right time.
Make the wrong decisions in any team and you won't have your team behind you for very long.

The worst things I see from skippers (aside from batting on a wet track ) are chopping and changing the batting order (no bat likes flying up and down the order) and using a bowler 1 week but then not for the next couple and expecting him to perform at a whim whenever you call on him next. No forthought at all!

[uknsaunders]

As above all teams need a good captain. I have seen good teams perform poorly with a poor captain. Likewise average teams often perform well with the right captaincy. It's a skill to recognise a teams strengths and weaknesses and to play each week in a way that maximises that strength while negating the weaknesses. It can be firm leadership, man management or tactical awareness but by having somebody who can read conditions and tailor a way of winning for his team, you stand a much better chance. Taking decisions on who is most effective where in the batting order or who is the better bowling certain conditions, are match winning decisions. Lost count of the number of times a good team has lost because the skipper "played by numbers" rather than what worked well in the conditions. It does make a difference.

[trypewriter]

I wonder if any of this comes down to the skipper's relationship with the selectors.

[uknsaunders]

I wonder if any of this comes down to the skipper's relationship with the selectors.

I was once told "games are won at lost at selection" as much to do with not having your best xi available as getting the players you want. There is also the issue of getting players you don't want and being under pressure to use them - ie. first team skipper needs somebody to get some "overs in" and you are forced to bowl a spinner on a green seamer.

Brings me onto pre-planning and balance. A good skipper will have a plan A,B,C etc. He needs the players to implement it though. 30 years ago you could get away with a decent seam attack and no real spinner. Now wickets are covered more often and surfaces dryer, so having the option of 2 spinners is a prerequisite. Having a balanced attack and batting line up requires a bit of horse trading but you can't do much with 5 swing bowlers on a square turner.

[kal_m]

Others might be strategically unimaginative but lead the team from the front like an MS Dhoni or a Misbah

My opinion is that a team reflects the personality of the captain - a defensive mindset from a captain usually results in a defensive team and that is why I rate Ricky ponting so highly. He was an aggressive, lead from the front captain and his team had a killer instinct that they might not have had, had they been captained by a Justin Langer or a Damien Martin.

Really...Dhoni is unimaginative...?? I will have to diagree on that.

Ponting might not have had a chance to exhibit his imaginative or tactical brilliance as he had probably the best post 1980 team. But with that team anybody would have had the same success as he did.

I agree that any team needs a good captain but average teams need the best captains. The best example I can think of right now is Imran Khan winning the '92 world cup.

[Silver Bullet]

Really...Dhoni is unimaginative...?? I will have to diagree on that.

Ponting might not have had a chance to exhibit his imaginative or tactical brilliance as he had probably the best post 1980 team. But with that team anybody would have had the same success as he did.

I agree that any team needs a good captain but average teams need the best captains. The best example I can think of right now is Imran Khan winning the '92 world cup.

Really ? You think Misbah would've had the same success leading that Australian outfit ? How about Inzamam ? I think absolutely not.

A defensive captain would've completely changed the mindset and approach of that team. A lot of the wins that the Ponting aussie side went for would've been draws. A lot of the time with 5 wickets down with nothing on the board, Australia would counter attack and snatch the game away from the opponent. For a captain like the two mentioned above, their approach is the exact opposite.
I think inferior captaincy is the primary reason why Pakistani teams post Imran Khan have always underachieved.

As for Dhoni - in test cricket he is absolutely unimaginative and in over his head.

[Manormanic]

few people have mentioned club cricket which is very different - in club cricket, sorry to say, the biggest skill a captain needs is the skill to get his best XI players on the field.  So many clubs struggle to get that in their ones, because the skippers p155 so many people off...

[kal_m]

Really ? You think Misbah would've had the same success leading that Australian outfit ? How about Inzamam ? I think absolutely not.

A defensive captain would've completely changed the mindset and approach of that team. A lot of the wins that the Ponting aussie side went for would've been draws. A lot of the time with 5 wickets down with nothing on the board, Australia would counter attack and snatch the game away from the opponent. For a captain like the two mentioned above, their approach is the exact opposite.
I think inferior captaincy is the primary reason why Pakistani teams post Imran Khan have always underachieved.

As for Dhoni - in test cricket he is absolutely unimaginative and in over his head.

I would say that the kind of team Ponting had made anything possible. If you have someone like Gilly coming at 5 down and smashing (and I literally mean smashing) centuries at will is any captains dream.

[ProCricketer1982]

Are we on about club or pro teams ?? I assumed amateur.

Totally different beasts

[Buzz]

when I originally asked the question, I didn't specify pro or amateur.
I was referring to pro because the requirements are very different for amateurs, when getting 11 on the park is harder than captaining the match!

[ajmw89]

Being a 4th XI skipper is quite difficult at times.  Most of this season we've been able to get 5 or 6 saturday teams out which makes life simpler, but last season we only had a 5th XI for half the year.  Selection wise that meant we'd be at the bottom of the ladder most weeks, so getting my best XI out on a regular basis was difficult.  This season availability has been so good that half of last year's 4s are now playing friendlies in the 5th XI.

I'd say 90% of club cricket captaincy is getting your team togethter and getting them where they are supposed to be.

The 10% on field stuff is fairly simple when people don't start trying to move the field around without my say so.  A lot of this season I've had people playing for me who believe their divine right is to play in the 2s/3s and that they are above playing for me.

It really doesn't help matters and when they don't perform, they are the first people that get the axe as their attitude usually stinks and no matter what you say to them to try and get them playing for the team, they play selfishly.

A few times this year, I've had to drop people to the 5s as they aren't performing or costing us too many runs/wickets.  A few of them have gone and scored runs and come straight back up, but the ones that refuse to play for the 5s have not got back in my team, no matter how much I might need them

[IQ]

Really ? You think Misbah would've had the same success leading that Australian outfit ? How about Inzamam ? I think absolutely not.

A defensive captain would've completely changed the mindset and approach of that team. A lot of the wins that the Ponting aussie side went for would've been draws. A lot of the time with 5 wickets down with nothing on the board, Australia would counter attack and snatch the game away from the opponent. For a captain like the two mentioned above, their approach is the exact opposite.
I think inferior captaincy is the primary reason why Pakistani teams post Imran Khan have always underachieved.

As for Dhoni - in test cricket he is absolutely unimaginative and in over his head.

Looks like you are a fan of ponting - nothing wrong in that. Don't let that cloud your memory tough. Great batsman but okayish captain

For an awesome team that he had Ponting was rather a defensive captain- in fact if it wasn't for Warnie's antics ponting would have never made capo.

Warnie was bossing captain ponting around in most games- field placements etc. Please rewatch Ashes 2005.

Experienced openers like Hayden and langer to demolish any attack and then attacking Batsmen going till the end. Gilly and symonds were lower middle order batsmen- is that not proof enough! Then McGrath , Jason Gillespie and Warne to attack from both ends - an autopilot of some kind would have won most games.

Watching Clarke captain gives even more contrast to Ponting.

[Silver Bullet]

Looks like you are a fan of ponting - nothing wrong in that. Don't let that cloud your memory tough. Great batsman but okayish captain

For an awesome team that he had Ponting was rather a defensive captain- in fact if it wasn't for Warnie's antics ponting would have never made capo.

Warnie was bossing captain ponting around in most games- field placements etc. Please rewatch Ashes 2005.

Experienced openers like Hayden and langer to demolish any attack and then attacking Batsmen going till the end. Gilly and symonds were lower middle order batsmen- is that not proof enough! Then McGrath , Jason Gillespie and Warne to attack from both ends - an autopilot of some kind would have won most games.

Watching Clarke captain gives even more contrast to Ponting.

Don't disagree with anything you said there... Except, you probably haven't seen much of Misbah or Inzamam. Ponting was nowhere near as defensive as either of them or a Cook. He could also, almost always lead from the front and set an example with the bat or even in the field. His fielding IMO, makes him the greatest cricketer in the modern era.

Let's say you replace Ponting with Misbah and the whole dynamic would change. I am speculating now but instead of Warne, Hayden, Gilchrist... You might have Martin, Langer and Misbah as the centre of power. The whole team approach, from run rates to field placing to declarations would take on a more defensive flavour.

[WalkingWicket37]

IQ - Warne was a genius, some of the things he did as skipper oh Hampshire proved that.

Is he the greatest captain Australia never had??

[Number4]

IQ - Warne was a genius, some of the things he did as skipper oh Hampshire proved that.

Is he the greatest captain Australia never had??

I think Clarke is going to prove to be one of the best captains in international cricket...

Warne has a great cricketing brain but not great captaining qualities in my opinion... Lacking people skills I think