Print

[Nmcgee]

Yes Blocka. It sounded like a "saving the craft with minimum effort and no financial outlay" kinda deal to me. JM was clear in his ultimate goal of saving the craft. Nothing he's outlined is likely to achieve this.

Take a risk, spend some money, employ an apprentice full time. Surely?

[Nmcgee]

I am surprised that this has not been done before but on a much smaller scale. A bat maker offers a 'make your own bat experience'.

I thought they did mate. Look at Hammer Cricket?

[TBONTB]

I know they offer a bespoke experience but I cannot see where they offer a make your own experience?

[Nmcgee]

You may be right. I thought this would've been offered somewhere too.

[tushar sehgal]

A little while back we discussed this and one of my idea was , I am not sure if it was here or on another one but here is how it goes.

Setup a school/ workshop, where students can come and practice the art, you don't even need a bat making legend there just someone with basic knowledge of how to use the tools etc. Once a week, every 2 weeks or Monthly get a big name pod shaver to come in for half a day and spend with students. inspect their work, teach techniques, then students have time to practice. If this was a four  month course you have 4 podshavers that have come in for half a day each, students have had time to practice and their work inspected by actual craftsmen. Fee should cover the cost of everything, as you would want to compensate the bat makers for their time. That will get the students exposure to different skills from different bat makers, they will get instilled with good values and love of the craft. Top students would/could then be available to be cherry picked by these bat makers to come work if they needed help. I mean its common sense, bat makers are getting paid for their time, passing their trade and then they get to pick out help that they have seen develop over months.

Going back to KS by JM, well as much as I agree with Sudeep's point that you can't  make a pod shaver in a week or transfer all your knowledge I also think Sudeep you are missing a point. We hire Uni students to come work with us on short terms, there is no way they will learn a lot over a short period of time (usually 2-3 months) but of the 100's of students that have passed through our doors even if one finds his/her passion then the program is successfull. Everyone likes the idea of being a bat maker but when you really do it you can figure out pretty quickly if you are cut out for this, so you are providing value for their money, sometimes its worth knowing what you can't do, similarly if 1 kid discovers that this is it, then he/she will go back and find the means to make it happen. Remember no matter how good your teacher is you can't learn something if you don't want to learn what the teacher is teaching and you have to make your own mistakes, practice and try to absorb the lessons. JM can stop you from howlers and share little tid-bits but he can't force you to pick up tools after you are done your course and gone back home. Everyone who signs up could be of different skill set and might absorb different things from the same course.

I think its a great idea and kudos to him for trying to do something, he could have sat at home and thought lets hire someone to make my bats and keep making a mint selling bats but he is doing something for the craft, even if not everyone thinks/ see's it that way.

[mad_abt_cricket]

It may be possible that JM can provide enough knowledge in 5 days but my whole point : Is this time enough for a fresher to grasp such vast knowledge and apply afterwards and to apply where? I am not convinced with the analogy of doing a workshop/ training in a mainstream company as there students have options to go back and apply the knowledge by getting another job. Moreover bat making is more practical than theory as per my experience.

There might be one or two jobs available ( like B3 and Salix advertised) but what about the rest of  the students who go through such a course? Isn't the only option remains is to setup own workshop, buy equipments and clefts which again requires some investment.
If someone has to find out the bat making is not his cup of tea, it is a really expensive route to take.

A little while back we discussed this and one of my idea was , I am not sure if it was here or on another one but here is how it goes.

Setup a school/ workshop, where students can come and practice the art, you don't even need a bat making legend there just someone with basic knowledge of how to use the tools etc. Once a week, every 2 weeks or Monthly get a big name pod shaver to come in for half a day and spend with students. inspect their work, teach techniques, then students have time to practice. If this was a four  month course you have 4 podshavers that have come in for half a day each, students have had time to practice and their work inspected by actual craftsmen. Fee should cover the cost of everything, as you would want to compensate the bat makers for their time. That will get the students exposure to different skills from different bat makers, they will get instilled with good values and love of the craft. Top students would/could then be available to be cherry picked by these bat makers to come work if they needed help. I mean its common sense, bat makers are getting paid for their time, passing their trade and then they get to pick out help that they have seen develop over months.

Going back to KS by JM, well as much as I agree with Sudeep's point that you can't  make a pod shaver in a week or transfer all your knowledge I also think Sudeep you are missing a point. We hire Uni students to come work with us on short terms, there is no way they will learn a lot over a short period of time (usually 2-3 months) but of the 100's of students that have passed through our doors even if one finds his/her passion then the program is successfull. Everyone likes the idea of being a bat maker but when you really do it you can figure out pretty quickly if you are cut out for this, so you are providing value for their money, sometimes its worth knowing what you can't do, similarly if 1 kid discovers that this is it, then he/she will go back and find the means to make it happen. Remember no matter how good your teacher is you can't learn something if you don't want to learn what the teacher is teaching and you have to make your own mistakes, practice and try to absorb the lessons. JM can stop you from howlers and share little tid-bits but he can't force you to pick up tools after you are done your course and gone back home. Everyone who signs up could be of different skill set and might absorb different things from the same course.

I think its a great idea and kudos to him for trying to do something, he could have sat at home and thought lets hire someone to make my bats and keep making a mint selling bats but he is doing something for the craft, even if not everyone thinks/ see's it that way.

[Beachcricket]

It may be possible that JM can provide enough knowledge in 5 days but my whole point : Is this time enough for a fresher to grasp such vast knowledge and apply afterwards and to apply where?

That's the concern of the individual taking the course. They need to get the most out of it and also decide what they wish to do with the knowledge in the future. It could be a hobby or eventually a business but to assume that the 5 days is a compressed apprenticeship is unfair.

[tim2000s]

I agree beachcricket. You are paying for a  starter course.  If you were an apprentice they would pay you and it would be for a long period.  This is really designed to give people a go under the tutelage of one of the greats,  and if just 2 or 3 go on to become master craftsmen,  his job is done.  He will have laid the foundation and provided the industry contact that those few need to take their own initiative and get going.

[Number4]

It may be possible that JM can provide enough knowledge in 5 days but my whole point : Is this time enough for a fresher to grasp such vast knowledge and apply afterwards and to apply where? I am not convinced with the analogy of doing a workshop/ training in a mainstream company as there students have options to go back and apply the knowledge by getting another job. Moreover bat making is more practical than theory as per my experience.

There might be one or two jobs available ( like B3 and Salix advertised) but what about the rest of  the students who go through such a course? Isn't the only option remains is to setup own workshop, buy equipments and clefts which again requires some investment.
If someone has to find out the bat making is not his cup of tea, it is a really expensive route to take.

May I ask who taught you how to make bats m_b_c?

[mad_abt_cricket]

May I ask who taught you how to make bats m_b_c?

This forum and JM videos on  youtube.

[Number4]

Ok so do you think you would have benefited from having a week of tutelage from one of the great podshavers? Any of the greats not just JM.... If I remember correctly I watched an early video of you making bats and you were scratching willow from the cleft with very blunt tools... You are making beautiful bats now but with a week with a master craftsman I've no doubt your attempts would have improved out of sight and I also believe that you would know after a week whether this bat making game was for you or not therefore saving you all that money before forking it out on tools and equipment. This academy is giving guys a "kickstart" into the world of bat making.. It's not setting them up for life but it's giving them the knowledge to take it to the next step if they wish... At the very least they get a couple of great bats an the experience of a life time.

Let's ask all the podshavers on here if they think a week with one of the best at the beginning of their career would have helped them along?

[mad_abt_cricket]

Ok so do you think you would have benefited from having a week of tutelage from one of the great podshavers? Any of the greats not just JM.... If I remember correctly I watched an early video of you making bats and you were scratching willow from the cleft with very blunt tools... You are making beautiful bats now but with a week with a master craftsman I've no doubt your attempts would have improved out of sight and I also believe that you would know after a week whether this bat making game was for you or not therefore saving you all that money before forking it out on tools and equipment. This academy is giving guys a "kickstart" into the world of bat making.. It's not setting them up for life but it's giving them the knowledge to take it to the next step if they wish... At the very least they get a couple of great bats an the experience of a life time.

Let's ask all the podshavers on here if they think a week with one of the best at the beginning of their career would have helped them along?

My point of view on this particular campaign is based on my experience of bat making.
Did I knew that I will end up making bats then? NO.
I started it out of curiosity and as a past time. I personally do not consider my skill a finished article despite spending more than 2 years. Yes I struggled a lot but then I learned along the way and I do not see a replacement to that.

5 days in my view is not sufficient this is my opinion and it has come from my experience of making bats and spending one full day with Tim keeley last summer.
 
A week with one of the best at the beginning of would have helped me along?
Yes  but even then I would not have afford the cost. Lets ask how many of the forum members here can afford this course and in the end will end up doing it?

I have nothing but respect for Julian and I sincerely want it to be a success but in the current format I have serious doubts.
I am in touch with JM since he initiated this and I have expressed my views and suggestions to him.

[SkipperJ]

Let's ask all the podshavers on here if they think a week with one of the best at the beginning of their career would have helped them along?

^THIS^

Different people will get different mileage from a 5 day course. Someone who has spent a lot of time reading up on a forum such as this might be able to leverage the course a lot better than Joe Public.

I find in life generally, anyone can learn most of anything. It is the fine tuning that separates the best from the rest. That's where someone like JM comes in for bat making. You can pick his brain and get some inside tips fast, or you could spend a whole lot of time/money experimenting on your own. No guarantees whether you will end up finding those answers either. Take your pick ...

Btw, the offers of training / making your own bat etc. in exchange for X dollars are just incentives for folks to donate money, so the academy can actually be created. The real payoff for all donors, and the cricketing community at large, is the academy itself (if it happens.)

[Beachcricket]

5 days in my view is not sufficient this is my opinion and it has come from my experience of making bats and spending one full day with Tim keeley last summer.

By this you're constructing that a day with Tim Keeley wasn't helpful because if 5 days isn't sufficient then surely 1 day was positively a waste of time.

[mad_abt_cricket]

Lets not get personal and  change this topic to my learning experiences.  This is a forum and everyone is entitled to his view. I respect yours but that doesn't necessarily mean that I must agree to your view.