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[ProCricketer1982]

You've gotta consider the fact that a lot of them are still in education though so don't have all the free time possible. Surely having them around a county 2nd XI and other high quality players who they may even be playing professionally with in the future is more worthwhile then them being around fellow club players?

Not if the standard of club cricket is raised because of less county sides.. so a lot of the current mediocre county players and 2xi guys are suddenly all playing club cricket.. meaning the guys currently in the ECB Prem would move down a league or two etc etc

Again, part of the long term aim should be to raise the quality of club coaching so that young players (all players really, not just the odd good one), get quality coaching. If they then show the performance by getting to the top 3-4 divs by 16 then the county can drag them into the 2nds or to trial games. 2nd xi's should almost be a couple of pro's (fringe first team or injured players coming back) and basically a load of young trailists who have impressed in league cricket by scoring runs/taking wickets. Reward for performing, not for playing for club x or having a rich mum/dad.

as always, there are so many things that would need changing to make it work. You'd need to revamp the amateur game as much as the pro one. It would need to be capable of producing players capable of playing 4 day cricket, all the way down the leagues to the guys youa re simply trying to keep playing the game.

[Gingerbusiness]

Also, don't forget the bureaucracy involved in cricket also.

Youth teams dominated with kids from the coaches club/school, senior teams dominated with players from fashionable clubs etc etc etc...

Let's be honest, there are some players playing county/minor counties cricket who have got in because they are 'good lads'.

I can name two minor counties setups who currently, in my honest opinion, do not pick the strongest sides available to them - going for players who are overrated, under developed and lacking in the necessary experience to be playing that level. Influenced by coaches/individuals who are out for their own ends.

On the whole, first class counties cannot afford to do this but we all know one or two in each setup who you look at and think 'why on earth are you where you are? I can name 3 players locally who can fill your spot'.

Disillusioned from years of this I am afraid.

[Gingerbusiness]

Not if the standard of club cricket is raised because of less county sides.. so a lot of the current mediocre county players and 2xi guys are suddenly all playing club cricket.. meaning the guys currently in the ECB Prem would move down a league or two etc etc

Again, part of the long term aim should be to raise the quality of club coaching so that young players (all players really, not just the odd good one), get quality coaching. If they then show the performance by getting to the top 3-4 divs by 16 then the county can drag them into the 2nds or to trial games. 2nd xi's should almost be a couple of pro's (fringe first team or injured players coming back) and basically a load of young trailists who have impressed in league cricket by scoring runs/taking wickets. Reward for performing, not for playing for club x or having a rich mum/dad.

as always, there are so many things that would need changing to make it work. You'd need to revamp the amateur game as much as the pro one. It would need to be capable of producing players capable of playing 4 day cricket, all the way down the leagues to the guys youa re simply trying to keep playing the game.

Great point!

Why do we say someone is under-performing in club cricket if they average under 30, batting top 5, yet some counties just continue with players because they may 'come good'?

Same with bowlers. The amount of times I have heard longer-form commentators saying 'oh he's averaging 2 wickets a game. He's a prospect'... REALLY?! A real game winner is he?! Haha. Behave.

Makes me laugh.

[Stuey]

Also, don't forget the bureaucracy involved in cricket also.

Youth teams dominated with kids from the coaches club/school, senior teams dominated with players from fashionable clubs etc etc etc...

Let's be honest, there are some players playing county/minor counties cricket who have got in because they are 'good lads'.

I can name two minor counties setups who currently, in my honest opinion, do not pick the strongest sides available to them - going for players who are overrated, under developed and lacking in the necessary experience to be playing that level. Influenced by coaches/individuals who are out for their own ends.

On the whole, first class counties cannot afford to do this but we all know one or two in each setup who you look at and think 'why on earth are you where you are? I can name 3 players locally who can fill your spot'.

Disillusioned from years of this I am afraid.

I played youth cricket around the same time as a certain boxing promoters son, he was useless and arrogant with it, but thanks to his dads money he played for Essex youth and 2nd team! It was a running joke. Ive been involved in and witnessed some absolute diabolical county trials, run by coaches who have no idea about cricket. The games seemed to he purely set up for the public school boys in the side and everyone else made up the numbers not even performing the roles they were selected for.

[Gingerbusiness]

I played youth cricket around the same time as a certain boxing promoters son, he was useless and arrogant with it, but thanks to his dads money he played for Essex youth and 2nd team! It was a running joke. Ive been involved in and witnessed some absolute diabolical county trials, run by coaches who have no idea about cricket. The games seemed to he purely set up for the public school boys in the side and everyone else made up the numbers not even performing the roles they were selected for.

Sounds oh so familiar!

[ProCricketer1982]

I can only go on what I see, I know that there will be players who play for county youth and make it. However, you'd think they'd have still made it through normal league cricket as they'd have performed above the rest so would get 'spotted'.

Anyway, I agree about the minor counties stuff too. I know a few who play for Herefordshire and tbh, there are far better players around but these are mates and play for the right clubs. Just shows that the selection policy used is political and not on playing ability. These are the things that need to be smashed apart and those currently involved need removing as they've shown they aren't upto it.

[Gingerbusiness]

I can only go on what I see, I know that there will be players who play for county youth and make it. However, you'd think they'd have still made it through normal league cricket as they'd have performed above the rest so would get 'spotted'.

Anyway, I agree about the minor counties stuff too. I know a few who play for Herefordshire and tbh, there are far better players around but these are mates and play for the right clubs. Just shows that the selection policy used is political and not on playing ability. These are the things that need to be smashed apart and those currently involved need removing as they've shown they aren't upto it.

Case in point, we have a 20-year old at our club who has averaged 50+ in his last three seasons and is in the Cardiff MCCU squad but the very minor county we are in refuses to pick him because he does not play in the Home Counties Prem/Div 2. Playing 2 leagues below in the TVCL.

Our argument isn't that he isn't facing 80mph+ bowlers all the time - that much is true. The level of spin bowling isn't much different! Our argument is why is he being over looked for a guy who struggles to average 20 playing two leagues above? Or even worse, a 16/17 year old with 'potential' but has not scored any real senior runs?

I think it is disappointing - a lot of this comes from playing these levels myself. I disagree with the minor county setups. It is unfair how they choose their sides.

Having taken a step back from representative cricket about 3 years ago now, I can also now appreciate the damage it does as it weakens smaller clubs who actually develop a lot of the talent by forcing these boys to leave - leading to reduced subs but also diluting the talent pool, maybe leading to relegation. Requiring a few years to rebuild.

Let's be honest, most of the system is not scrutinised enough and as a result, people are allowed to get away with murder.

Though most of the people who make the decisions spend their lives walking around proudly wearing their MCC ties... So god knows why we are surprised!

[Stuey]

Similar story, our 1st team skipper is now 30 and has fantastic hand eye coordination and brute strength, when he came on to our first team at 16 you could see he was something different, a rough diamond. He would take apart overseas and Essex 2s bowlers. 2 long serving members and ex Leicestershire players at our club, tried to get Essex to take a look at him, but they just received a wall of silence, because he did not go to the right school and we are not one of Essex's favoured clubs. Its a shame, but just shows the short sighted nature of cricket from the top down in this country. Flintoff said today on commentary playing in Oz has been an eye opener for him and anyone who has gone to play there will no what he means. Warner would never have succeeded had he been born in England.

[eukaryote76]

Super over Stars vs Sixers. On now! Luke Wright to face Brett Lee.

[csnew]

Brilliant entertainment during this game including the commentary.
Master stroke to send in Faulkner in the super over despite struggling in the main game. Pretty surprising Wright and Faulkner came in before Pieterson, white and maxwell.

Kp showed a glimpse of his best today

[eukaryote76]

Kp just dropped a sitter to be catches by white as the ball bounced out of kp's hands! Awesome!

[smilley792]

Enjoyed today's game.

Limb looked good. Why doesn't he play for England again lovely innings of 80.

Pietersen looked good for his 50. Seemed slow.between the wickets and his calling was abysmal. 

Brett Lee.  35 off his last 2 overs costs sixes that game!


I thought it be wright and maxwell for super over. But faulkner pulled it off.
Strangely in interview before super over.  Pietersen didn't sound like he wanted to bat.


So anyway. 2 English man (cough "south african" cough) stars of the show.

[csnew]

How agar continues to bat at number 5 is beyond me, seen it in the champions league and in the bbl. Hasn't shown much ability with the bat since scoring in that test match knock.

Zampa continues to impress. Reckon he should be picked for the WC

[fromthehip]

Carberry's innings was dreadfully painful again not sure what he's trying can't hit it of the square

[ManHOOS]

Carberry is not a T20 batsman 

but still 133 on this wicket is tough ask