Topic: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts (Read 15618 times)

The Doctor · « **on:** February 10, 2015, 09:36:22 PM »

Hi All,

Read a few topics on willow grading and thought it would be worthwhile to describe how we grade and what we look for.

Before I start, I have to say that grading is very subjective and definitely in the eye of the beholder, and as Willow is a natural material you will get variance from the clefts that I will show you below, but for me these are good examples of each grade. If there is any doubt, we will down grade to the next stripe.

I have tried to show a range of densities also, the lower the grade the higher the average density, tat said you obviously get variance in densities across the grades.

Grade 3 / 1 stripe

A 1 stripe will have a minimum of 4 grains � if it has 4 or 5 grains I would expect the face to be relatively blemish free. On the other hand we do get 1 stripes with more grains with blemishes on the face.

Grade 2 / 2 Stripe

A 2 Stripe will have a minimum of 5 grains, and again if it has 5 or 6 grains I would expect the face to be blemish free, you can get a higher number of grains but these will contain a few blemishes.

Grade 1

A 3 Stripe will have a minimum of 7 grains with no blemish / pin knots in the playing area. You can get anything up to 30 grains, but these are becoming increasingly rare.

The beautiful thing about what we offer is that you can select what type of willow you prefer � if you are lucky enough to be able to make it to the factory you can go through all our willow stocks to find the one that is right for you. If you can�t make it in, just let me know what you like and I will take a picture of a selection of clefts that you can choose from.
And finally � found this beauty when grading the last lot of willow we had in��

Forum Special

�350 if anyone wants it��..

Streaky

InternalTraining · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2015, 01:34:02 AM »

@The Doctor , how do you gauge performance of the willow? By performance, I mean rebound/ping/bounce off the face. Is it possible that an ugly G3 will hit the ball further than a pretty G1?

Regarding forum special, how big an edge and spine can you get out of that cleft? I can handle 2-12/2-13 weight. 42 mm+ and 72mm+ dimensions?

Northern monkey · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2015, 01:47:00 PM »

Don't normally ogle pics like that,, but there's something about that special

smilley792 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2015, 03:34:34 PM »

Quote from: InternalTraining on February 11, 2015, 01:34:02 AM

@The Doctor , how do you gauge performance of the willow? By performance, I mean rebound/ping/bounce off the face. Is it possible that an ugly G3 will hit the ball further than a pretty G1?

Regarding forum special, how big an edge and spine can you get out of that cleft? I can handle 2-12/2-13 weight. 42 mm+ and 72mm+ dimensions?

For a 72mm spine it would need to be an oversized cleft. And I'm not sure this is.

Kulli · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2015, 03:56:25 PM »

Quote from: The Doctor on February 10, 2015, 09:36:22 PM

the lower the grade the higher the average density

Is this purely down to supply and demand, or do you believe lower density provides another benefit?

FattusCattus · « **Reply #5 on:** February 11, 2015, 04:29:45 PM »

I have to say that the G2 @ 384 on the left of the pic looks rather super.

The Doctor · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2015, 05:07:45 PM »

Quote from: smilley792 on February 11, 2015, 03:34:34 PM

For a 72mm spine it would need to be an oversized cleft. And I'm not sure this is.

Chris is right - you would need an oversized cleft for that, and unfortuantely this is just a standard sized cleft.

GarrettJ · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2015, 05:10:38 PM »

why dont all clefts get cut to oversize (75mm height) and then the option is there to make an even bigger bat?

The Doctor · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2015, 05:17:44 PM »

Quote from: InternalTraining on February 11, 2015, 01:34:02 AM

@The Doctor , how do you gauge performance of the willow? By performance, I mean rebound/ping/bounce off the face. Is it possible that an ugly G3 will hit the ball further than a pretty G1?

Regarding forum special, how big an edge and spine can you get out of that cleft? I can handle 2-12/2-13 weight. 42 mm+ and 72mm+ dimensions?

There are alot of old wives tales about what grain is best, however after years of research I have found a pattern against grain structure and performance. This said however as wood is a natural material - you will always get clefts that break all the rules and show characteristics that a higher spec. cleft should show. We at b3 will only down grade on performance, so all of those lucky people - (I was speaking to Smiley about this today) who have lower grade bats that go like the stink, well done! So if we find a 3 stripe that doesnt play quite as well, we will downgrade it to a 2 or possible a 1 stripe.

If only we could grade on actual performance rather than aesthetics...... If, lets say for example, I might have something up my sleeve that could guarentee performance regardless of what it looked like would you mind? I, coming from a motorcycle background wouldn't mind riding a rusty bike if I knew it was the best..... just a thought, and would really like your thoughts.

The Doctor · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2015, 05:19:14 PM »

Quote from: GarrettJ on February 11, 2015, 05:10:38 PM

why dont all clefts get cut to oversize (75mm height) and then the option is there to make an even bigger bat?

Jeremy has gone into this in quite some depth, but in a nutshell, if you made bigger clefts your yield would be reduced per tree and cleft prices would increase. I think he quoted a 20 - 25% increase in cost if my memory serves me correctly.

Streaky

The Doctor · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2015, 05:19:40 PM »

Quote from: FattusCattus on February 11, 2015, 04:29:45 PM

I have to say that the G2 @ 384 on the left of the pic looks rather super.

There all for sale......

tushar sehgal · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2015, 05:26:30 PM »

Quote from: The Doctor on February 11, 2015, 05:17:44 PM

If only we could grade on actual performance rather than aesthetics...... If, lets say for example, I might have something up my sleeve that could guarentee performance regardless of what it looked like would you mind? I, coming from a motorcycle background wouldn't mind riding a rusty bike if I knew it was the best..... just a thought, and would really like your thoughts.

I guess it depends on what you mean. If you can get all bats to perform well and equally then the market would not pay the same price for an ugly one. But if you meant that you got an ugly one that you can gurantee will out perform most other bats then yes looks don't matter, having said that skeptic in me would never pay 400 for that bat simply because there is no way of proving a claim of performance and there has been a lot of those claims in past..

wayward_hayward · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2015, 05:30:41 PM »

If the bat market was turned on its head and all bats were graded on performance, would it not effect the average cricketer as they are priced out of purchasing a great performing bat which could of been �150 when graded on looks?

Instead of him buying his ugly but good performing �150 bat a year, he has to settle with a �150 good looking but underperforming bat that may not perform as well as his ugly bat. In turn, the rich kid turns up with his �500 wand and already has a performance advantage over the �150 man.

The Doctor · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2015, 05:54:31 PM »

Quote from: tushar sehgal on February 11, 2015, 05:26:30 PM

I guess it depends on what you mean. If you can get all bats to perform well and equally then the market would not pay the same price for an ugly one. But if you meant that you got an ugly one that you can gurantee will out perform most other bats then yes looks don't matter, having said that skeptic in me would never pay 400 for that bat simply because there is no way of proving a claim of performance and there has been a lot of those claims in past..

Fully Agree, and completely understand your scepticism. What I have in mind would remove all the old wives tales and would scientifically grade on performance alone.

I also agree that you couldn't charge the same price for 2 bats if they were of equal great performance if one was a tru 3 stripe and the other a 1 stripe.

InternalTraining · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2015, 05:55:13 PM »

Quote from: The Doctor on February 11, 2015, 05:17:44 PM

There are alot of old wives tales about what grain is best, however after years of research I have found a pattern against grain structure and performance. This said however as wood is a natural material - you will always get clefts that break all the rules and show characteristics that a higher spec. cleft should show. We at b3 will only down grade on performance, so all of those lucky people - (I was speaking to Smiley about this today) who have lower grade bats that go like the stink, well done! So if we find a 3 stripe that doesnt play quite as well, we will downgrade it to a 2 or possible a 1 stripe.

If only we could grade on actual performance rather than aesthetics...... If, lets say for example, I might have something up my sleeve that could guarentee performance regardless of what it looked like would you mind? I, coming from a motorcycle background wouldn't mind riding a rusty bike if I knew it was the best..... just a thought, and would really like your thoughts.

Personally, I would happily take a bat that had a blemished face, non-straight grains, hard bars and other spots but went like a cannon. People that I play with, many sub-urban dad weekend cricketers with (average 1.5) kids, middle-class lives and long list of groceries to shop after the weekend match, would also take a bat that performed but was an "ugly betty" or as you say, a "rusty motorcycle" and was cheaper priced. I believe there is a sizable market for a high performance/high value (cheap) bats. We have seen grading on Butterfly bats, regular G1/G2/G3s so why not a "ugly betty" or "rusty motorcycle" grading system for cheap, high performing clefts?

Just to be clear, you are saying that there is no identifiable grain structure that guarantees performance. And, when you grade clefts, you are taking into account performance and aesthetics? Is that accurate?

Author Topic: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts (Read 15618 times)

The Doctor

Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

InternalTraining

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

Northern monkey

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

smilley792

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

Kulli

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

FattusCattus

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

The Doctor

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

GarrettJ

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

The Doctor

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

The Doctor

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

The Doctor

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

tushar sehgal

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

wayward_hayward

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

The Doctor

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts

InternalTraining

Re: Different grades / different Densities / different clefts