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[Bats_Entertainment]

Is that so.  I only watch Australia's games so wouldn't know whats gone on else where.  He was useful in BBL recently and is well suited to Australian conditions and atleast plays with heart.

Yes,  a lot of people who don't watch much English cricket seem to know exactly who should be in the England team.

[Manormanic]

so, the question then is why.. Why is it smaller nations (population wise and development wise) are ahead of us then? Ok, the odd player will come through who is better but why is the avg player better than our average player?? How do we make ours better? How do we spot the talent that we are so obviously missing now? how do we develop it?

Do we need to pay these guys more money?
Do we need more coaches?
Do we need to get more people playing the game?
Do we need counties to pay their players more?
Are they more competitive?
Do our players just not 'want' it?
Do they have better coaches?
If so, do we need to find better ones and sack the current lot? (how do you identify the good from the bad!)
Do we need more silly u19 T20 blast type stuff to find these guys?

None of the above?

As I see it, at the present time England have pretty close to their strongest One Day International squad together in Australia; you could make a strong argument for Stokes over perhaps Jordan but otherwise, this is what we have for a major international tournament that is taking place in the here and now.  Will we win it?  No - we won't embarass ourselves and could conceiveably reach the semis before coming up against one of the three sides that are conclusively better than us in a one off knockout game - but we are a definite level behind Australia, South Africa and New Zealand at the present time.

Why is that the case?  Well, it can't have escaped anyones notice that England wasted a lot of time on trying to shore up Cook's reign which would have been much better spent on trying to put together a better alternative.  This would not necessarily have seen a huge number of changes to the squad, but would have given the side under Morgan the appropriate time to gel into a more cohesive unit.  Its probably less obvious, but the fact that they play year round when ever other nation has some time off built naturally into their schedules, combined with the quite correct assertion on the part of the ECB that Test cricket - and specifically the Ashes and the quest for the top of the international test rankings - are the sides number one priorities, mean that one day tours are often treated as a proving ground for young players and/or an opportunity for the established stars to rest.

Operating in conjunction with this is the fact that England lag behind other nations in their ability to identify their George Baileys - that is to say, guys who are nowhere near good enouh or suitable for test cricket but who can do a valuable job within the set up for other formats of the game.  Even when England identify such a player - Morgan was one rare example - they insist on trying to turn them into Test players despite an absence of evidence that that transformation is even possible.  It can't help in this that England's players get little or no exposure to the IPL and, unless unwanted by the main side, the Big Bash.

For the next cycle of international cricket, England need to get better on all of these fronts.  Its time to stand down a number of Test specialists such as Bell, Broad and Anderson and to look to put together a side - indeed, a squad of players - that can move with ODI cricket.  We can't magic up world beaters but we should do a better job of identifying the guys who are going to go on hopefully to become those guys in the net four years.   

[awp]

Yes;  a lot of people who don't watch much English cricket seem to know exactly who should be in the England team.

Well, then consult them because your selectors havent a clue.

[ProCricketer1982]

None of the above?

As I see it, at the present time England have pretty close to their strongest One Day International squad together in Australia; you could make a strong argument for Stokes over perhaps Jordan but otherwise, this is what we have for a major international tournament that is taking place in the here and now.  Will we win it?  No - we won't embarass ourselves and could conceiveably reach the semis before coming up against one of the three sides that are conclusively better than us in a one off knockout game - but we are a definite level behind Australia, South Africa and New Zealand at the present time.

Why is that the case?  Well, it can't have escaped anyones notice that England wasted a lot of time on trying to shore up Cook's reign which would have been much better spent on trying to put together a better alternative.  This would not necessarily have seen a huge number of changes to the squad, but would have given the side under Morgan the appropriate time to gel into a more cohesive unit.  Its probably less obvious, but the fact that they play year round when ever other nation has some time off built naturally into their schedules, combined with the quite correct assertion on the part of the ECB that Test cricket - and specifically the Ashes and the quest for the top of the international test rankings - are the sides number one priorities, mean that one day tours are often treated as a proving ground for young players and/or an opportunity for the established stars to rest.

Operating in conjunction with this is the fact that England lag behind other nations in their ability to identify their George Baileys - that is to say, guys who are nowhere near good enouh or suitable for test cricket but who can do a valuable job within the set up for other formats of the game.  Even when England identify such a player - Morgan was one rare example - they insist on trying to turn them into Test players despite an absence of evidence that that transformation is even possible.  It can't help in this that England's players get little or no exposure to the IPL and, unless unwanted by the main side, the Big Bash.

For the next cycle of international cricket, England need to get better on all of these fronts.  Its time to stand down a number of Test specialists such as Bell, Broad and Anderson and to look to put together a side - indeed, a squad of players - that can move with ODI cricket.  We can't magic up world beaters but we should do a better job of identifying the guys who are going to go on hopefully to become those guys in the net four years.   

I do agree with a lot of your points, schedule, priorities and other factors all come into it. However, I do think that as a nation we are lazier than ever before and by that I mean that when a kid is picked up as a jnr and told they are awesome more just believe it and stop working as hard as they need. I'd imagine it's more now than ever due to the media, money etc. Why does say Buttler need to keep working hard at his game?? he's made it now, he could meander along for 5-6 seasons, hit a few big innings, fail more times than not and boom.. he's a millionaire and can retire. Yet he's not become the player he could have been. Coles was it from Kent, got all anti on a lions trip and has gone downhill from there. Surrey had the bad culture in it's players  in the not to distant past etc etc

I know from my national badminton days that there are some super talented guys around who simply don't make it because they can't be bothered to really work at it and have an attitude. THey are more talented than some who do make it, but never get close to their max etc.  Money gives rewards but it also gives an ego, ever wondered why the slums of argentina produce far more and better players than us?? because they want it more, they NEED it. This country is rich, it's kids grow up with everything (compared to other nations) and they don't neeed to work hard.. the coach sets it up for them..t eh coach tells them they are awesome.. the coach does everything for them.

anyway, who knows. Maybe the administrators are far more intelligent than us and know it all.

[Bats_Entertainment]

Maybe they watch cricket and are around cricketers every day?

[ProCricketer1982]

Maybe they watch cricket and are around cricketers every day?

well, maybe they shouldn't be going off how bad a job they've done over all with the game (so pro down to grass roots)

[Bats_Entertainment]

"Why does Jos Buttler need to keep working hard at his game?"

Daft!

[ProCricketer1982]

"Why does Jos Buttler need to keep working hard at his game?"

Daft!

You obviously didn't see the word 'Say' in the sentence.  You sir are daft. I think ignoring you is the best policy.

[Bats_Entertainment]

I think ignoring you is the best policy.

Ignorance is bliss, and all that.

"Why does, say, Jos Buttler need to keep working hard at his game?"  Very daft.

[Sam]

I do agree with a lot of your points, schedule, priorities and other factors all come into it. However, I do think that as a nation we are lazier than ever before and by that I mean that when a kid is picked up as a jnr and told they are awesome more just believe it and stop working as hard as they need. I'd imagine it's more now than ever due to the media, money etc. Why does say Buttler need to keep working hard at his game?? he's made it now, he could meander along for 5-6 seasons, hit a few big innings, fail more times than not and boom.. he's a millionaire and can retire. Yet he's not become the player he could have been. Coles was it from Kent, got all anti on a lions trip and has gone downhill from there. Surrey had the bad culture in it's players  in the not to distant past etc etc

I know from my national badminton days that there are some super talented guys around who simply don't make it because they can't be bothered to really work at it and have an attitude. THey are more talented than some who do make it, but never get close to their max etc.  Money gives rewards but it also gives an ego, ever wondered why the slums of argentina produce far more and better players than us?? because they want it more, they NEED it. This country is rich, it's kids grow up with everything (compared to other nations) and they don't neeed to work hard.. the coach sets it up for them..t eh coach tells them they are awesome.. the coach does everything for them.

anyway, who knows. Maybe the administrators are far more intelligent than us and know it all.

Bit unrelated to the topic as a whole but since Coles left Kent following his sending home from the lions tour he has taken 62 wickets @ 27 (over the course of 1 and a bit seasons) compared to his previous record before it of 127 wickets @ 31 (over the course of 4 seasons).

I wouldn't really say he's gone downhill that much and every good young player has a good break through season.

[ProCricketer1982]

Bit unrelated to the topic as a whole but since Coles left Kent following his sending home from the lions tour he has taken 62 wickets @ 27 (over the course of 1 and a bit seasons) compared to his previous record before it of 127 wickets @ 31 (over the course of 4 seasons).

I wouldn't really say he's gone downhill that much and every good young player has a good break through season.

wasn't he regarded as being the next great all rounder though? promised much then fell off the wagon. Doesn't mean he's a bad player etc. I just know his attitude was questioned which could mean he won't reach his potential. Maybe that is a factor in why england aren't as good as other counties. Not saying it's the only thing etc, just it could be a factor.

[Bats_Entertainment]

Perhaps we've actually seen Matt Coles bowl?

[Manormanic]

Coles is not the best example I don't think - there are a LOT of players for whom Lions selection has been a millstone of one kind or another (either the "look at me" types or those who struggle to fit into the perceived Team England mould).  He was never quite the player that some in the media tried to build him up into, but he has done an okay job at Hampshire (admittedly in division 2).

The point overall is valid though - there is not the same hunger in the developed world as there is in less wealthy places.  Having said that, England are far from the only country to experience such issues - in Australia there has been a tail off in cricketing numbers as AFL and League have become competitors for the best youngsters, whilst in the West Indies we are less than likely to see another team like Clive Lloyd's, born of social and economic frustrations and the quest for something resembling Western lifestyles....

[skip1973]

It's not long ago we were rated the best side in the world. We are in transition.

JT is a far better player than Steve Smith was when he broke into the Aus side, for example.

Now that's rubbish. when has England ever been a good ODI side?
 And transition? England were a good test side for a few years out of the last 40 based on Freddie and a few South Africans.

[Wjpn]

Can someone please explain the theory of leaving a player out, such as, luke wright for example, he absolutely gunned it In the limited over season for Sussex, had a strong big bash, and generally has performed well in conditions down under over the seasons of big bash cricket that he has played, surely a player who has been in australia for the last few months before a World Cup, in australia, should be viewed as a valuable asset by the England management?
The English cricket team should be built on players who have made a big impact at county level, granted, James taylor is an example, he has a brilliant season at notts and captained with maturity, some may feel he should of been given the call up sooner, however his form warranted the call up, so why isn't this the case with players like Jason Roy, billings & wright.
For me I feel the ecb selectors have developed a tendency to select the "old favourites", broads attitude is appalling, no fight or passion, James taylor is the size of a 12 year old and he's standing up showing that he wants to be there, there are young players who and Inform players who are dying to play international cricket and are putting I'm performances.
We can't be any worse off by giving them a shot? My point with luke wright was simply a form based point, he's 29, so not exactly the "next generation", but it's just a point.