Topic: READY PRESS - and the science behind it. (Read 38067 times)

The Doctor · « **on:** March 09, 2015, 01:07:46 PM »

Hi Chaps,

After the post from @tim2000 about his wonder bat I thought I would start a topic on this. Driving into work this morning I was thinking about how best to present this as there are a lot of people with preconceptions.

So I thought it would be a good idea to find out what people perceived to be a good press and what people think the pressing process does to the bat. After this I will explain what happens and what we are trying to achieve.

So I have come up with a few questions that it would be great to hear peoples thoughts / opinions on before I start.

Q1. Why do Cricket bats need pressing?

Q2. What does pressing achieve?

Q3. What does knocking in do?

Q4. What happens to the bat when it is used � why does the bat get better?

Please share your thoughts on the above; I would be very interested to hear them. I think this will provide a great platform to explain the pressing process and also help people understand what actually happens.

Streaky

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 09, 2015, 01:13:31 PM »

personally believe harder press means it'll last longer but loses performance and takes ages to get good.

very soft pressing means itll ping but will be past its peak quickly. personally, never touch a hard pressed bat because of this as I think it's had some of it's performance pressed out of it

no idea how real any of it is

Ayrtek Cricket · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2015, 01:17:24 PM »

Here's my 10 pence worth....

Q1. Why do Cricket bats need pressing?

to compress the willow that the bat has been made from from it original state after cutting it down to size.

Q2. What does pressing achieve?

a greater rebound response when hitting a ball with it.

Q3. What does knocking in do?

to further compresses the willow using a smaller surface area upon areas that are likely to sustain impact from the ball.

Q4. What happens to the bat when it is used � why does the bat get better?

The willow reaches it peak compression to maximise rebound from it after a certain period of time.

TBONTB · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2015, 01:25:27 PM »

Q1. Why do Cricket bats need pressing?
To withstand the impact of a ball. Unpressed willow is incredibly soft and would just break.

Q2. What does pressing achieve?
To compress the wood to a point at which it is firm enough to withstand the impact but soft enough to give good rebound.

Q3. What does knocking in do?
Giving the wood its final press with relatively little force to give it longevity.

Q4. What happens to the bat when it is used � why does the bat get better?

The handle gets looser and the springs come into play more. and the blade starts to open up and almost become a bit softer

Boondougal · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2015, 01:51:21 PM »

I always wondered why bats need pressing or why it impacts performance but working on my car I decided to liken it to creating a progressive spring. The pressing creates a tighter structure on the surface, enabling it to deal with the impact and be tough enough to absorb the blow. as the structure below is less dense it acts like a spring rebounding would. The more energy you give it the greater it rebounds.
The harder pressed surface gives the bat a tension, like a trampoline. The softer structure below transfers the force of the swing, the momentum of the blade and the energy in the ball into how the ball travels post leaving the bat.

A harder press impedes this transfer, like jumping on a drum, a softer press isn't tough enough to deal with the impact, like jumping on a broken trampoline.

tim2000s · « **Reply #5 on:** March 09, 2015, 02:14:46 PM »

Q1. Why do Cricket bats need pressing?

To create a hard surface layer off which a cricket ball will rebound. Willow is a soft wood. If it is left unpressed it is like having a set of toilet roll tubes taped together and while the ball will rebound, far more energy is absorbed by the structure than is passed back into the ball. It also protects the willow from damage.

Q2. What does pressing achieve?

Pressing "flattens" the tubular microstructure in the top 5mm or so of the face of the bat creating a hard layer with a higher coefficient of restitution than the raw willow would have. Imagine flattening the toilet roll tubes. The outermost would have the toughest, damage resistant surface and as you move through the depth of the willow, the springiness of the lower tubes would be retained creating a spring like effect.

Q3. What does knocking in do?

Knocking in further compresses the face of the bat and is required where clefts are pressed in an estimated fashion, i.e. in bulk at a similar pressure. It also allows specific higher pressure to be applied to areas where most damage is likely to occur, i.e. the edges and toes, where a uniform pressing across the face doesn't harden the most at risk areas enough.

Q4. What happens to the bat when it is used � why does the bat get better?

Further compression of the willow fibres occurs until an optimum point is reached, where the underlying tubular structure offsets the surface hardness to perfection generating the perfect combination of spring and hardness. After which the willow quite literally falls apart from itself as the bonds between the micro-structure break down and the face lifts off.

procricket · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2015, 03:03:42 PM »

My bats like your Tim needed minimal knocking in people have to get away from pre concived ideas of sound!!!

The Doctor · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2015, 01:44:11 PM »

Some great posts, and I think an element of truth in the majority � top marks goes to @tim2000 however ;-)

Q1. Cricket bats need pressing, as in its raw state it would be far too soft and would indent and break up pretty quickly. I am sure you have all had a bat that has been soft pressed which has cracked/broken down pretty quickly.

Q2. Increases the hardness of the face to enable it to withstand the ball impact to prevent the above. This is done by compacting the transport cells in the in the first 5 mm of the face.

Q3. Further compresses the face � so increases the hardness of the face. As knocking in is very localised the pressure you put on during an impact of a mallet is greater than that of the roller press and therefore compacts the face further � and makes the face even harder. This is very localised to the face of the bat.

Q4. The impact of the ball further compacts the face, again very localised to the face of the bat. The term opening up actually is the complete opposite, and the bat is actually getting harder.

I am not sure why somebody would want a soft pressed bat, as this would result in a lot more knocking in � to get to the same state as our ready press/knocking in. I can categorically state that there is no such thing as a soft pro press � this is simply a myth / urban legend.

The next thing i would like to talk about is why the ball rebounds (increase in CoR) when the face is harder. On impact, energy is lost in a number of ways (the more energy transferred back into the ball the better the CoR);
-   Ball deformation
-   Bat deformation
-   Noise (Negligible)
-   Heat (Negligible)
There is obviously energy lost via torsional movements (twisting) for off centre hits but will just concentrate on central impacts.
As a bat manufacturer we can�t do much about 3 of the above (Ball / Noise / heat) but we can reduce the bat deformation (by harder pressing). I specially listen for a sharp pitch when bouncing a ball � this is almost metallic.

I hope the above makes sense and the way that I have presented this has made you think about what goes on during a ball impact and why it is important that the bat is pressed correctly. Each manufacturer will have a process that they stand by. We at B3 have researched this in depth and fully understand what our pressing regime does to the microstructure of the wood to make sure we get the best out of the press. It is not as simple as pressing the face hard as you will get all sorts of problems and a bat that doesn�t perform. Together with our hand knocking in service our bats are ready to play with no further knocking in required. We do recommend that you have a few indoor nets before facing a cricket ball however.

LDifa · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2015, 01:55:52 PM »

On Sunday I played in a friendly T20 match on tour, you had to retire at 30, and my B3 sounded like a gunshot on 4 of the 5 fours I hit.

Just amazing - thank you

InternalTraining · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2015, 03:37:03 PM »

Quote from: The Doctor on March 09, 2015, 01:07:46 PM

Q1. Why do Cricket bats need pressing?

Q2. What does pressing achieve?

Q3. What does knocking in do?

Q4. What happens to the bat when it is used � why does the bat get better?

Please share your thoughts on the above; I would be very interested to hear them. I think this will provide a great platform to explain the pressing process and also help people understand what actually happens.

Streaky

1. Willow by nature is soft and will break if constantly pounded by leather balls. Pressing hardens the willow face so that it can with stand the hard impact of batting
2. Pressing compresses the face of the bat by 5-10 mm so that it is hardened and not damaged by the impact of a cricket ball or a burglar's bones.
3. Knocking-in hardens the surface of the bat face which provides a hard top-side to a softer under-side of the bat face. This difference in hardness results in a spring-like recoild/rebound when a cricket ball hits the bat face.
4. Over time, bat face gets harder due to ball impact resulting in an increased differenc between the surface hardness and inner layers of willow resulting in a bigger recoil/rebound.

InternalTraining · « **Reply #10 on:** March 10, 2015, 03:54:11 PM »

Quote from: The Doctor on March 10, 2015, 01:44:11 PM

Each manufacturer will have a process that they stand by. We at B3 have researched this in depth and fully understand what our pressing regime does to the microstructure of the wood to make sure we get the best out of the press. It is not as simple as pressing the face hard as you will get all sorts of problems and a bat that doesn�t perform. Together with our hand knocking in service our bats are ready to play with no further knocking in required. We do recommend that you have a few indoor nets before facing a cricket ball however.

I arrived late to the partay...

Some questions for you:
1. What are the factors that you look for when determining the needed level of pressing for a willow? Is it grain, weight, level of moisture?
2. Does level of pressing differ due to willow quality/weight/moisture level? Or, all clefts are pressed equally?
3. Is it possible to determine the quality of rebound of a willow before it is pressed?
4. Do clefts with 5-7 gains require more pressing than clefts with 8-20+ gains?

tushar sehgal · « **Reply #11 on:** March 10, 2015, 03:57:19 PM »

@thedoctor interesting read and thank you for sharing. Find it funny how everyone speaks of soft pressed bats going to pro's yet your post de-bunks the myth.

One question though, On a bat that is considered fully opened up and flying what would be the compression due to pressing, knocking and ball impacts combined? if pressing is 5mm then are we looking at 7mm or 10 or higher/lower?

Also if bats need further compression then why not press them more at the pressing/manufacturing stage? how is hand knocking/playing in creating a better surface to hit the ball that pressing cannot achieve? considering hand knocking in will never be as uniform as machine pressed, or is it the different compression zones (some areas at 5, others at 7mm etc.) created the hand knocking in that some how make a bat feel better than uniform knocking (pressing) would achieve...

Breathe....lol

tom line · « **Reply #12 on:** March 10, 2015, 04:58:37 PM »

Q1tbats need pressing to compress the fibres in the wood and make a uniform surface for the bat face
Furthermore it needs pressing to create a hard compressed veneer of wood on top of the soft Willow to create a trampoline effect.
Q2
Pressing achieves a uniform work surface and allows a piece of wood to have any rebound abilities or performance
Q3
Knocking in knits together the smaller fibres on the top surface of the willow and creates a more solid surface for the face to give greater rebound as it starts to unpress the bat as to speak as the veneer starts to seperate from the lower soft wood.
Q4
Q3 lead me on to this but as when you use the bat the harder compressed wood starts to delaminate from the bat and this is why some people think bats perform the best just before they break

Northern monkey · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2015, 06:54:25 PM »

Do B3 press and test each cleft individually ? Say for instance ,the same way Paul Aldred does

Do you press the clefts once? Or multiple times at different stages?

What do you do if you overpress a cleft?

procricket · « **Reply #14 on:** March 10, 2015, 07:15:10 PM »

Quote from: Northern monkey on March 10, 2015, 06:54:25 PM

Do B3 press and test each cleft individually ? Say for instance ,the same way Paul Aldred does

Do you press the clefts once? Or multiple times at different stages?

What do you do if you overpress a cleft?

I can answer this mate as we press each cleft individually we test individually too as we have a man who job is pressing and that pretty much alone.

As for over press when you test after every pass it hard to over press mate as it continually been tested.

If it does happen it will go into the corner where the unfortunately split and damaged clefts do pal.

Does that answer your questions mate.

Author Topic: READY PRESS - and the science behind it. (Read 38067 times)

The Doctor

READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

ProCricketer1982

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

Ayrtek Cricket

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

TBONTB

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

Boondougal

READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

tim2000s

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

procricket

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

The Doctor

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

LDifa

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

InternalTraining

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

InternalTraining

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

tushar sehgal

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

tom line

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

Northern monkey

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.

procricket

Re: READY PRESS - and the science behind it.