Print

[Manormanic]

if youre going on div 1/2 argument dont forget yorkshire have been up and down the divisions and its only been the past three years where theyve been a force and so rashid has bowled in both division and root and bairstow have both scored runs in both tiers. Theres even more div 2 players in the white ball set ups but i feel thats a discussion for the back end of the tour.

I think Yorkshire have spent one of the last seven seasons in the lower division (and that was the year that was mostly rained off) so there's hardly going to be a distortion to their stats!

[rickjames]

Anyone still mad at Ian Bell?

[Seniorplayer]

Stevie Wonder or David Blunkett...

Well they couldn't do any worse...

[alexhilly1492]

I think Yorkshire have spent one of the last seven seasons in the lower division (and that was the year that was mostly rained off) so there's hardly going to be a distortion to their stats!

ah fair enough, i know they were down for at least one which was when derby won it, and the rain might have had something to do with that

[uknsaunders]

Not sure we are going to agree on this Manormanic, but I knew that when I posted it and was waiting for a response!

1st vs 2nd div? Not sure Ali Cook has a single 1st div run so it is a difficult (and different) argument. I think Ansari is better than Rashid. You don't agree. Missing this trip may be good for Ansari in the long term.

More of a worry here are the dropped catches and whether we will get enough runs to put pak under pressure.

I'm with Buzz on this one. I think Ansari was always going to play and bat 8 with Ali opening. That was always the plan for the UAE.

When he was injured it threw a spanner in the works and they panicked by picking Samit. I don't think they wanted to play 4 seamers ideally.You can tell who wasn't a first choice for the test team by the game time in the warm ups, Hales for example and Samit only got some overs towards the end of game two.  I think in hindsight a specialist spinner turning it away might have been more useful. Not sure who though!

With Finn having a stress fracture of the foot, does this leave the door open for Ansari to return as a replacement?

I wonder who is on suicide watch tonight for Ian Bell! They were two sitters at test level and it's already cost England big.

[ScottParko]

I really don't think Ansari was going to play to be honest, I think he was there for the ride and step in if there was an injury.

I came on to ask who people would pick to replace Finn? Charles Colville reckons we will hear tomorrow that Finn is off home so I figure we will call for another steamer, any ideas? I can't see them calling for Ansari, is he even fit?

[alexhilly1492]

plunkett probably add pace to the seamers that finn had although similar trajectory to the rest of the attack

[ScottParko]

plunkett probably add pace to the seamers that finn had although similar trajectory to the rest of the attack

That's what I was trying to think of but couldn't think of anyone! DOH!

[alexhilly1492]

should probably say i reckon ansari is in with a shout if hes fit, or maybe even bring ansari and a quickie over! i get the impression that picking ansari was to blood him and give him some time around the test squad and england set up overall affter his odi vs ireland was washed out if he can score heavily for surrey could he perhaps solve the opener issues for england? means theres 2 spinners in the side all the time and ali doesnt have to open on ocasion!

[Manormanic]

hmmm.  I really don't see the argument for Ansari unless they wanted him as a third spin option - there is just no way that Rashid would have been cast aside in that situation.  Long term, I suspect he is more of an option to replace Ali as a batsman who can hold up an end than Rashid who will always be the attacking second innings spinner who plays when conditions demand.

[Buzz]

But he isn't a good enough bowler...

[smilley792]

Whys everyone judging rashid on a flat first day pitch?


Yes he currently bowls to many full tosses and short balls, but on day 3/4/5 he should be more dangerous.

He certainly isn't as bad as Kerrigan was.....

[Manormanic]

But he isn't a good enough bowler...

As a sample, this is the first class records of England's four "spinners" this tour:

Rashid 410 @ 34 (with 19 five wicket hauls)
Ali 195 @ 40 (5)
Ansari 100 @ 35 (5)
Patel 238 @ 40 (3)

Bearing in mind that Rashid and Patel are basically D1 players the others D2, and that Rashid often gets hidden behind the Yorkshire seam attack, costing him loads of opportunities, this would seem to suggest that he's the main man.  I would also point out that he is comfortably the best fielder of the four, and that - despite being the only one not considered a batting all rounder - his batting figures more than stack up...

[ProCricketer1982]

Raja has said he's not good enough and tbh, given his calibre and the fact he'll know spin more than any ecb man does..suggests rashid won't cut it. However, none of the others look any better so it's just the best of a poor bunch really.

The fact we have moeen Ali, someone who can't play the short ball opening in test cricket just about sums up the level both England and world cricket is at currently.

[Buzz]

I would say Rashid benefits from the seam attack around him and Ansari is a gun fielder. He also opens the batting which is far from his natural position, I can't see Rashid doing that!
Regardless, Rashid bowls slow loopy leggies which can be ok in an odi when the batsman have to chase runs. In a test match he will just get picked off.

Ansari is just starting out as a spinner and has been the best county spinner this year. That is some achievement.