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[ppccopener]

Exactly my understanding too. KP said quotas stopped him getting a fair crack at provincial/franchise level

good points lads, im sure you are right. To my mind thou all the rest of the white players came thru the provincial teams at the same time, so I cannot see where the difference lies....

but i'm not an export on South African cricket by any means.

Rabada im surprised you think he would not of made it thru the system as it is,

I think he could be better than Ntini. Rabada has huge potential and I hope he has a great career-he's got a beautiful action and pace

[Manormanic]

You have to bear in mind that the KP situation was made to look sillier than it actually was - the KP who joined Notts in 02 was a promising off spinner who hit the ball really hard.  He probably was the most disposable of the non-quota players, as it appeared at the time.   It was not at that point clear to anyone how far talent - and the hard work that he rarely gets credit for doing - would take him. 

[Manormanic]

good points lads, im sure you are right. To my mind thou all the rest of the white players came thru the provincial teams at the same time, so I cannot see where the difference lies....

but i'm not an export on South African cricket by any means.

Rabada im surprised you think he would not of made it thru the system as it is,

I think he could be better than Ntini. Rabada has huge potential and I hope he has a great career-he's got a beautiful action and pace

Rabada would have succeeded anytime, anywhere.

Would you apply the same to Ontong, Tsolekile and a number of others?

[mattcoll12491]

good points lads, im sure you are right. To my mind thou all the rest of the white players came thru the provincial teams at the same time, so I cannot see where the difference lies....

but i'm not an export on South African cricket by any means.

Rabada im surprised you think he would not of made it thru the system as it is,

I think he could be better than Ntini. Rabada has huge potential and I hope he has a great career-he's got a beautiful action and pace

Maybe I shouldn't have chosen Rabada. But my point was that without the quota system, he may not have had the opportunities earlier on his career to get spotted and picked up by the provinces.

[GoodLeave]

Rabada would have succeeded anytime, anywhere.

Would you apply the same to Ontong, Tsolekile and a number of others?

Tsotsobe. Although I actually rated him when he first came onto the scene.

[Manormanic]

Tsotsobe. Although I actually rated him when he first came onto the scene.

You'd need to add Phelukwayo, Phangiso, Behardien too.

[csnew]

Wasn't Gulam Bodi selected ahead of him and that's the reason he left. The irony, bodi was a match fixer

[FattusCattus]

Whatever happened to All Hand Zondeki?

[springbok45]

Maybe I shouldn't have chosen Rabada. But my point was that without the quota system, he may not have had the opportunities earlier on his career to get spotted and picked up by the provinces.

Rabada is the worst example you could've chosen, his parents are doctors (or one of them is) and he went to one of the top private schools, good example of the new black middle class rather than the disadvantaged, there was a good article about him on cricinfo.

[northernboy1987]

Whatever happened to All Hand Zondeki?

Bravo sir. Bravo. 

[ppccopener]

Rabada is the worst example you could've chosen, his parents are doctors (or one of them is) and he went to one of the top private schools, good example of the new black middle class rather than the disadvantaged, there was a good article about him on cricinfo.

springbok i'm gonna take a good guess SA is your team, can I ask you a question for my benefit, and maybe some others on this forum thinking about this very subject.

Outside of South Africa, looking at  a quota system seems just plain wrong. Any discrimination due to colour is wrong. Kids in shanty town outside of the rich areas have to have investment so they can come thru.

Far as I know Ntini came thru from a poor area(again, best of my knowledge he did from memory)

so what I am asking is, is it essential now the SA board introduce a draconian system based on colour to get black players thru to the National team?

Over the year the demographic of the team will change, England has with more Asian players now-this has to be the case(but naturally coming thru here)

SA cricket seems to have jumped ahead and deceided the system does not work to bring to game to the masses, and is now forcing it thru for right or wrong reason(wrong in my view)

[edge]

Not sure either of these has much to do with quota systems? Certainly not Roussow anyway, Abbott is denying transformation has anything to do with it but hard to believe that getting dropped for an unfit Philander didn't have some effect.
Good article on Cricinfo explaining about Abbott - deal was signed 5 months ago (before he got a run in tests) and has only leaked out now. Clearly not massively about money given he won't be playing IPL now and says he'll not be earning much more than his CSA contract pays, more job security and future coaching job prospects, sounds like he's aiming for a coaching job with Hampshire down the line or a maybe a nice private school head of cricket position. Understandable at least given he's 29 and probably won't be first choice for SA even after his recent run?

[ppccopener]

Interesting slightly different view Edge, some of us presuming this is more related to the quota system than anything else.
I see the South African coach has slammed both players in the press today.

Are you hinting the impending departure from the EU where the kolpak loophole may possibly be closed in the next couple of years(or not because no one knows the answer to Brexit yet) has meant some South African players are now thinking they want to get in first and come over here to get residency well In advance of any possible cancelling of kolpak?

Adding in the quota system and the fact they are not guaranteed first choice for the test team?

So they are thinking England is a better bet career wise.....

Could we be seeing an influx of SA players doing the same, if so what happens to our home grown county players...sink or swim for them?

[edge]

Yeah that's exactly it in my view, bit of EU/Kolpak related panic and the chance of a guaranteed income for a decent length contract outweighing the possibility of more international caps. I'm sure quotas will have some influence on it but obviously hard to say how much, doesn't seem on the face of it like it's something Abbott thought about a lot. If you look at his stats he's really not played many games for SA either, only 3 more international games than Chris Jordan in about the same timeframe for example, and even that's after playing a lot in the past few months.

Wonder if Abbott and Roussow each knew the other was going, or had they kept it quiet and suddenly found out they were Kolpaking together!

[springbok45]

springbok i'm gonna take a good guess SA is your team, can I ask you a question for my benefit, and maybe some others on this forum thinking about this very subject.

Outside of South Africa, looking at  a quota system seems just plain wrong. Any discrimination due to colour is wrong. Kids in shanty town outside of the rich areas have to have investment so they can come thru.

Far as I know Ntini came thru from a poor area(again, best of my knowledge he did from memory)

so what I am asking is, is it essential now the SA board introduce a draconian system based on colour to get black players thru to the National team?

Over the year the demographic of the team will change, England has with more Asian players now-this has to be the case(but naturally coming thru here)

SA cricket seems to have jumped ahead and deceided the system does not work to bring to game to the masses, and is now forcing it thru for right or wrong reason(wrong in my view)

It is but a generation removed, I think the need to be seen doing something is what's pushed this whole issue to this point. Transformation targets are a crude answer to a very complex question, maybe exacerbated by the generation that have experienced horrible wrongs under the past regime now being the politicians writing the laws.
As an outsider looking in it is easy to say it should be organic from the grassroots, the government and CSA getting cricket into schools and youth clubs etc and into the consciousness of the kids by funding clubs and programmes everywhere, but it should've been done 20 odd years ago and then it probably would've been blooming by now. At this stage everyone involved seems to be ignoring that missed opportunity and trying to stimulate growth from the top down (very similar to the ECB).

My personal opinion is politics and sport shouldn't be mixed but it is what it is, where the future takes us who knows. There was a great quote I read ages ago, probably from Mandela that went something like:
Until we can stop referring to ourselves as black, white or coloured and start simply calling ourselves South Africans we will never succeed.