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Author Topic: Ashes 2017-18  (Read 407171 times)

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Kulli

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #330 on: September 29, 2017, 07:21:54 AM »

What opposition? Australians for marriage equality sits around 70% and has for a long time. The opposition sits with the far right faction of the current liberal government and our P.Ms unwillingness to upset his party by calling for a free parlimentary vote to legislate the change.

But anyway. Australian politics aside. This stokes is still a giant flog. No moral leap there.

Polls are polls, but the last one I read said support had dropped to 57% and opposition jumped to 34%, in 2017 that's mindblowing to me.

Anyway, agree Stokes obviously has 'issues' but just think all the bandwagon jumping by our friends down under is a bit rich. I remember Mr Ponting had some very public incidents relating to booze and scrapping, but rather than being banned for life or publically flogged he was made captain just 2 years later!
Not saying Stokes is an angel or doesn't have to make some serious changes to his life, but there is a fair amount of hypocrisy and overreaction flying about the last few days. This for the SMH was a particular favourite.

"There was a feeling in Australian cricket circles on Thursday that there was no way the ECB could allow Stokes to play in this summer's Ashes, with some saying the board risked becoming a laughing stock if he toured. There is also a belief that an Australian player would have had his contract torn up had he behaved in such a way.

Also think it's a pretty sad reflection of society that when something like this happens peoples first thought is if they have a video somewhere they can flog to the red tops.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 07:37:05 AM by Kulli »
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tate035

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #331 on: September 29, 2017, 08:08:57 AM »

Stokes is still caught up in that "lad" behavior/culture. He is vice-captain of the England cricket team. That means something. I was in disbelief when I saw the fight video but this "Harvey" nonsense explains something about him and why he'd be caught in jam outside a small nightclub in a compromising situation. It hasn't sunk into his testosterone addled brain that he is representing England. And he has fans outside of England too!

Unfortunately, if Cricket is going to grow in new markets, players need to rise up to a higher level of professionalism. On the field and off the field. He could've killed those guys, they were no match for his physicality. He is a "bloody" idiot! And, he need serious psychiatric help. I hope Strauss kicks him off the team!


I have just wasted 25 seconds of my life reading that drivel... I would suggest you go and take a good long look at yourself and then hopefully realise that there are far worse things than this happening in this country right now...

Once you have done this then please step away from your keyboard and go and do some voluntary work in the community where you can probably do some good rather than typing the utter uneducated drivel you have   typed here...
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Woodyspin

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #332 on: September 29, 2017, 08:36:09 AM »

Stokes is still caught up in that "lad" behavior/culture. He is vice-captain of the England cricket team. That means something. I was in disbelief when I saw the fight video but this "Harvey" nonsense explains something about him and why he'd be caught in jam outside a small nightclub in a compromising situation. It hasn't sunk into his testosterone addled brain that he is representing England. And he has fans outside of England too!

Unfortunately, if Cricket is going to grow in new markets, players need to rise up to a higher level of professionalism. On the field and off the field. He could've killed those guys, they were no match for his physicality. He is a "bloody" idiot! And, he need serious psychiatric help. I hope Strauss kicks him off the team!

You seem to forget the point im making here. I won't point it out to you. I'll give you until the asjes to figure it out for yourself.

Neon Cricket

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #333 on: September 29, 2017, 09:58:04 AM »

Putting aside his ability and what he brings to the team on the field - do we believe he deserves the right to represent his country after what's happened?

For me, to represent England is about more than just ability. It's the highest privilege in cricket and quite frankly his behavior just isn't deserving of that honor at the present time (Note present time. I'm not saying forever, but I'm saying he has to re-earn that right).

Whether he re-earns that right before or after the Ashes is down to the ECB. I would however be surprised if it's before bearing in mind they fly out in a few weeks - which is a shame for all us fans as he's pure entertainment on the field!
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mdg20

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #334 on: September 29, 2017, 10:02:30 AM »

Putting aside his ability and what he brings to the team on the field - do we believe he deserves the right to represent his country after what's happened?

For me, to represent England is about more than just ability. It's the highest privilege in cricket and quite frankly his behavior just isn't deserving of that honor at the present time (Note present time. I'm not saying forever, but I'm saying he has to re-earn that right).

Whether he re-earns that right before or after the Ashes is down to the ECB. I would however be surprised if it's before bearing in mind they fly out in a few weeks - which is a shame for all us fans as he's pure entertainment on the field!

He doesn't deserve to go, the ECB have done the right thing and what many other employees would do, suspended on full pay until police investigation/criminal proceedings/full ECB investigation is completed. As it stands he's brought the game and the ECB into disrepute(although the ECB manage it themselves all the time!) until that's proved otherwise he can't be picked.
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tate035

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #335 on: September 29, 2017, 11:03:31 AM »

Putting aside his ability and what he brings to the team on the field - do we believe he deserves the right to represent his country after what's happened?

For me, to represent England is about more than just ability. It's the highest privilege in cricket and quite frankly his behavior just isn't deserving of that honor at the present time (Note present time. I'm not saying forever, but I'm saying he has to re-earn that right).

Whether he re-earns that right before or after the Ashes is down to the ECB. I would however be surprised if it's before bearing in mind they fly out in a few weeks - which is a shame for all us fans as he's pure entertainment on the field!

Based on your reasoning Ben... You must then believe politicians, policemen, social workers, priests, nuns, Muslim religious figures, bankers etc etc are ALL individuals that are honest, polite, non violent, uncorruptible, not sexual deviants etc etc...
Your entitled to your opinion but I would say look in the real world and realise that Stokes hasn't murdered anyone and people representing organizations bigger and socially more important than England cricket have done A LOT WORSE....
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tate035

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #336 on: September 29, 2017, 11:06:08 AM »

He doesn't deserve to go, the ECB have done the right thing and what many other employees would do, suspended on full pay until police investigation/criminal proceedings/full ECB investigation is completed. As it stands he's brought the game and the ECB into disrepute(although the ECB manage it themselves all the time!) until that's proved otherwise he can't be picked.

At last.. IMO spot on... Even the correct but subtle dig at the ECB... :)
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Biggie Smalls

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #337 on: September 29, 2017, 11:47:26 AM »

When i started this thread i thought it would be good to start the selection debates nice and early , build up the anticipation etc etc . I could never have thought it would turn into ethical debates about drunken violence,  self defence , media predatory behaviour , the use of curse words on tv , the imitation or mocking of disabled kids , and the subsequent forum arguements that have ensued . Wow . This is now getting into strange territory.
One thing I'll say .... before we curse and abuse each other just try to remember that its not so easy to be as nuanced and comprehensive in our discussions on the forum....often we read someones view and think 'thats a bit (No Swearing Please)' , but if we were actually afforded the time to hear , one on one , the persons full opinion , in full context of their life outlook generally , we might not be disagreeing so much and have a fair amount of common ground with each other .
Just my two cents .....
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petehosk

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #338 on: September 29, 2017, 12:38:04 PM »

I won't judge Stokes on his behaviour as i don't know all the facts and who provoked who! And I won't guess who started it.
Growing up in Slough that scene looks very familiar to me, both from viewing a scene like that whilst sitting across the street with mates eating a doner kebab and from actually being part of it.
Also the so called "mocking a disabled kid" was obviously an imitation which they found funny (and no mocking involved!). Having teenagers who have instagram, facebook and other social media stuff - most of the teenagers I met were talking about Harvey's words on TV. They were imitating it when conveying it to me although they didn't use the C word in front of me. But they all found it fantastically funny and none of them mock disabled kids! To me Stokes was doing the same. The press have jumped on the bandwagon and making it big - gutter press trying everything to get a story!

But saying the above, there are a few points I would make!
- Imitating Harvey, which is not mocking disabled kids as the press are trying say, is still something which shows a bit of an immature sense of humour! Teenagers may find it amusing but Stokes is not a teenager!
- I suspect the imitation was fueled by alcohol! He seemed pretty drunk and lets face it, we all spout total rubbish sometimes when we have had a skinful! Then we are reminded next day and feel like hiding!
- Most violence involves alcohol. The Ambulance documentary stated that 80% of injuries or call-outs they get are drink related! Alcohol is a mind-altering drug which gets rid of inhibitions, changes behavior and alters your perception of what is acceptable! 99% of humans act very differently when drinking excessively! So when people are saying he should have stopped 1 minute earlier please remember this!

Even with the above points, there are a couple of things I can state!
Stokes is NOT Vice Captain material!! If you look at Strauss, Cook, Root and most other cricketers who have Captained England, they have to be seen as an example by other cricketers. They are in a responsible position and need to act that way, both on and off the field! Therefore although we do not yet know the events leading up to the fight, and we can sometimes forgive excessive behavior caused through alcohol, we still need to ask whether Stokes should have been drinking himself into oblivion!
If he had of been sober or if he had of had 1 or 2 drinks, I suspect the evening would have been very different!
And if he is behaving like an 18 year old out on a lads night out on payday, then that isn't then kind of example an International cricketer should be showing!

I hope he loses his Vice-Captain status. And whatever the Police investigation shows, he needs to be punished for drinking excessively as this led to other events taking place! Punishment? Hit him where it hurts - in his wallet!     
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InternalTraining

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #339 on: September 29, 2017, 12:49:36 PM »



I have just wasted 25 seconds of my life reading that drivel... I would suggest you go and take a good long look at yourself and then hopefully realise that there are far worse things than this happening in this country right now...

Once you have done this then please step away from your keyboard and go and do some voluntary work in the community where you can probably do some good rather than typing the utter uneducated drivel you have   typed here...

You can make derogatory comments about me all you want, it still doesn't change one fact: physical battery and excessive use of force is INDEFENSIBLE. For an England vice-captain, Stokes showed extremely poor judgement by getting drunk out of his wits, getting into a fight at 2 am with nobodies, and punching someone senseless. Comparing his situation to past actions by others is just condoning bad behavior and making excuses. 

Stokes needs psychiatric help and more importantly, he needs to grow the hell up!!!
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InternalTraining

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #340 on: September 29, 2017, 12:51:48 PM »

You seem to forget the point im making here. I won't point it out to you. I'll give you until the asjes to figure it out for yourself.

It doesn't matter. You are defending an indefensible position and there shouldn't be no two ways about it. Wrong is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Woodyspin

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #341 on: September 29, 2017, 12:55:21 PM »

Stokes needs psychiatric help and more importantly, he needs to grow the hell up!!!

By claiming someone needs psychiatric help for punching someone inself defence whilst drunk is very ill educated.

No GP would waste their time with refering him for such nonsense.

Under what medical issue would you claim he needs psychiatric help for?

Woodyspin

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #342 on: September 29, 2017, 12:56:19 PM »

It doesn't matter. You are defending an indefensible position and there shouldn't be no two ways about it. Wrong is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You're still misding the point. How can i defend something indefensible?

golders

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #343 on: September 29, 2017, 01:05:54 PM »

Interesting comments from Nasser 'the beak' Hussain in the build up to today's odi. He was saying that if a court case is hanging over Stokes there is no way he can go to Aus- can you imagine the abuse he will get the minute he gets off the plane? If however Stokes is cleared completely he's good to go! We have been told the recipient of Stokes' (rather impressive I must admit!) right hook sustained 'facial injuries'- I feel a lot may depend on how severe these injuries are...
I think even the Aussie public will be disappointed if Stokes doesn't take part in the ashes- he is exactly the type of cricketer they like. Test match cricket will be the poor for it! Sad sad situation all round.
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manno

Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #344 on: September 29, 2017, 01:20:03 PM »

You guys have a rich history of bringing your criminals to this fine country. Why should stokes be any different.  :D
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