Topic: Ashes 2017-18 (Read 407409 times)

Alvaro · « **Reply #2310 on:** December 19, 2017, 11:24:02 AM »

Jofra Archer: Barbados-born Sussex seamer wants to play for England
"I think the conditions over here suit me a lot more than anywhere else. I feel I would be better suited for a longer career in England"

Manormanic · « **Reply #2311 on:** December 19, 2017, 11:24:33 AM »

Reading the comments about McGrath and Hazlewood led me to realise that a lot of people are slightly misunderstanding this issue. It is not that England need three or four guys who bowl constantly above 90mph, its that they need guys who are built to bowl in Australian conditions. McGrath was built for it - he was tall, had an action that maximised his height, and bowled high 80s. Much like Hazlewood actually.

When England have won in Australia in my lifetime, they have either played shockingly bad teams, or, as in 2011, have taken a lot of bowlers with some or all of these attributes (Tremlett and Finn were tall, Bresnan hit a groove in the high 80s etc).

This time, we have a gifted swing bowler, in Jimmy. Then we have Overton, who is good but not ready, Woakes, who is unsuitable and - worryingly - Broad, who ought to be good in the conditions but is not

Seniorplayer · « **Reply #2312 on:** December 19, 2017, 11:39:07 AM »

Quote from: Manormanic on December 19, 2017, 11:24:33 AM

Reading the comments about McGrath and Hazlewood led me to realise that a lot of people are slightly misunderstanding this issue. It is not that England need three or four guys who bowl constantly above 90mph, its that they need guys who are built to bowl in Australian conditions. McGrath was built for it - he was tall, had an action that maximised his height, and bowled high 80s. Much like Hazlewood actually.

When England have won in Australia in my lifetime, they have either played shockingly bad teams, or, as in 2011, have taken a lot of bowlers with some or all of these attributes (Tremlett and Finn were tall, Bresnan hit a groove in the high 80s etc).

This time, we have a gifted swing bowler, in Jimmy. Then we have Overton, who is good but not ready, Woakes, who is unsuitable and - worryingly - Broad, who ought to be good in the conditions but is not

McGrath also had the skill of pressuring batsman stopping then scoring by landing 5 or six Balls an over in the spot.

Number4 · « **Reply #2313 on:** December 19, 2017, 11:52:43 AM »

McGraths average bowling speed was a gentle 131kph (81mph) although he could bowl faster with extra effort. He was 6�4�.
Broad and Overton are 6�5� and Woakes and Jimmy are 6�2� and bowl around the 85mph + speed which all pretty much fit into your �built to bowl� in Australian conditions.

It comes down to the fact that England have bowled (No Swearing Please)... Sorry

Number4 · « **Reply #2314 on:** December 19, 2017, 11:58:28 AM »

Quote from: Seniorplayer on December 19, 2017, 11:39:07 AM

McGrath also had the skill of pressuring batsman stopping then scoring by landing 5 or six Balls an over in the spot.

Jimmy has limited the scoring from Australia... He has a terrific economy rate is the series so far... Australia have been patient, which they haven�t done in the past, and the other bowlers haven�t done the job at the other end

Kulli · « **Reply #2315 on:** December 19, 2017, 12:03:47 PM »

Ali has been trashbag but that's maybe due - to some degree anyway - injury

Woakes has not shown what we hoped/expected him to

Broad has been very poor, offering not much control and virtually no threat.

Seniorplayer · « **Reply #2316 on:** December 19, 2017, 12:07:05 PM »

Quote from: Number4 on December 19, 2017, 11:58:28 AM

Jimmy has limited the scoring from Australia... He has a terrific economy rate is the series so far... Australia have been patient, which they haven�t done in the past, and the other bowlers haven�t done the job at the other end

seem to recall there were forum members who suggestied Anderson was past it and shouldn't tour and were calling for Woakes to lead the bowling attack.

Number4 · « **Reply #2317 on:** December 19, 2017, 12:14:10 PM »

Quote from: Seniorplayer on December 19, 2017, 12:07:05 PM

seem to recall there were forum members who suggestied Anderson was past it and shouldn't tour and were calling for Woakes to lead the bowling attack.

Don�t think it was this little black duck.... As much as I dislike him he is still a great bowler
Or maybe it was me 🧐🤪

SOULMAN1012 · « **Reply #2318 on:** December 19, 2017, 03:39:48 PM »

In terms of spin bowling the best is based on what i know and averages Leach at Somerset but for some reason we had doubts about his action!!! Never picked up by any umpires that I�m aware of.

As per rapid England bowlers if we do have some we need to protect them much like Aus did for this series, Central contract and limit the amount they bowl. For example could Tymal mills have been selected for this squad batting at 11 and bowling two 4/5 over spells of gas with new ball, basically like a T20 which is all he now plays. Jamie Overton or Jofra Archer the same is they are genuine quick as in 90mph for a 4/5 over spell. This means not bowling our potential has bowlers to death in CC.

northernboy1987 · « **Reply #2319 on:** December 19, 2017, 03:42:26 PM »

Quote from: SOULMAN1012 on December 19, 2017, 03:39:48 PM

In terms of spin bowling the best is based on what i know and averages Leach at Somerset but for some reason we had doubts about his action!!! Never picked up by any umpires that I�m aware of.

As per rapid England bowlers if we do have some we need to protect them much like Aus did for this series, Central contract and limit the amount they bowl. For example could Tymal mills have been selected for this squad batting at 11 and bowling two 4/5 over spells of gas with new ball, basically like a T20 which is all he now plays. Jamie Overton or Jofra Archer the same is they are genuine quick as in 90mph for a 4/5 over spell. This means not bowling our potential has bowlers to death in CC.

Surely you couldn't pick a no 11 bat who was only going to bowl less than 8 overs a day? Plus can he even bowl 8 overs in a day? He doesn't play any 50 over cricket anymore I don't think.

mo_town · « **Reply #2320 on:** December 19, 2017, 04:08:38 PM »

Pace is of no use if it is not backed with accuracy, guile, skill and discipline. Dont think putting someone who is express quick in the 11 is the answer. Definitely not against a team like Australia.

You need to bring your A game when you play Australia in Australia. You need a team with most (if not all) boxes checked. England squad was lacking in many departments and was hoping that the Australians perform equally poorly to make a contest of it. But that didnt happen, hence the 3-0 result.

it's_a_pudding · « **Reply #2321 on:** December 19, 2017, 07:46:43 PM »

I think the lads we have brought in Stoneman, Vince and malan deserve to keep their spot been impressed with all 3 throughout yes Vince has played a loose shot or two but if you ask anyone on the County circuit who is technically the best bat they will tell you Vince. He works in straight lines and has a lot of time.

If you watch any of the videos of the Aussie batsmen in the nets against starc, Cummins, Hazelwood etc you'll see they don't play them any better than we do and in all honesty they have been the big difference between the two sides. Firmly believe our bowlers and off field issues is where this series has gone wrong. Yes we need one 90mph+ bowler in our side to rattle people but it's more the way our bowlers have bowled. It's like the plans they have used for each batsmen is for the UK not Australia. They Should've bowled alot straighter and fuller to the majority of their batsmen and put at least one of the many in slips into that leg side.

As for Ali he has lost all confidence and with the cut it hasnt helped he has lost all the late dip and extra revs he was getting earlier this year and has bowled very flat and quick throughout. Be good to see crane get a go if you follow the big bash at all you'll see the leggies go very well in the tournament and yes it's a different format but alot of the guys aren't very good at picking them I think you'll find Rashid got a few of the current aus team out before in this fashion.

Cook shouldn't have played either yes his experience etc is needed over there but it's quite evident when he is at the crease he is thinking about technique over watching the ball and the way his bats are having to be made for his needs says it all. Root and Bairstow have looked decent but again their conversion needs to be better.

Manormanic · « **Reply #2322 on:** December 19, 2017, 07:53:32 PM »

Vince and Malan do indeed deserve runs in the side - Vince a short one, Malan as long as it needs. But they would be better swapped now.

Big Mac · « **Reply #2323 on:** December 19, 2017, 09:47:07 PM »

Quote from: it's_a_pudding on December 19, 2017, 07:46:43 PM

As for Ali he has lost all confidence and with the cut it hasnt helped he has lost all the late dip and extra revs he was getting earlier this year and has bowled very flat and quick throughout. Be good to see crane get a go if you follow the big bash at all you'll see the leggies go very well in the tournament and yes it's a different format but alot of the guys aren't very good at picking them I think you'll find Rashid got a few of the current aus team out before in this fashion.

Difference is that in white ball cricket you can toss down a pick and mix selection of deliveries and grab wickets with long hops and full tosses because batsmen have to go after you. In tests batsmen just block three or four half decent deliveries and wait for the inevitable crap ball and you return figures of 1/80 from 21 overs.

manno · « **Reply #2324 on:** December 19, 2017, 09:48:02 PM »

Quote from: Biggie Smalls on December 18, 2017, 09:56:06 PM

Also ,
Last time oz won a test in eng : 2015
Last time eng won a test in oz : 2011

Whitewashes since 2001 :
Eng : 0
Oz : 2 ( soon 3 ?)

Of course the series win column is the most important stat. But look beyond that and youll see Englands purported dominance over Australia in England is highly overstated. Ive read several people in this thread claim if the series were played in eng then the results would be reversed. Thats simply a fairytale to help Eng supporters sleep at night. Statistically/historically its just not accurate.

England in real danger of suffering yet another white-wash. Boof reported saying the shackles can now come off the Australian players for the last two tests. Scary for eng as so far Warner in particular has been VERY restrained.

Author Topic: Ashes 2017-18 (Read 407409 times)

Alvaro

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Manormanic

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Seniorplayer

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Number4

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Number4

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Kulli

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Seniorplayer

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Number4

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SOULMAN1012

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northernboy1987

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mo_town

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it's_a_pudding

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Manormanic

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Big Mac

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manno

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