Ashes 2017-18
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2775 on: January 04, 2018, 10:07:21 AM »
Quote from: Neon Cricket on January 04, 2018, 09:57:53 AM
Haha, one day you'll warm to Woakesy @Seniorplayer!

Yes Adam when he  wins  games  for England against proper tests sides
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WalkingWicket37

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2776 on: January 04, 2018, 10:44:15 AM »
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six and out

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2777 on: January 04, 2018, 10:53:08 AM »
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rickjames

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2778 on: January 04, 2018, 11:42:57 AM »
I think that's the nail in the coffin with regards to Root and conversions; just doesn't have the mental head needed to see it through like the others do. Piss poor.
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Manormanic

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2779 on: January 04, 2018, 05:09:30 PM »
Piss poor may be somewhat harsh - there remains every chance that he will grow into his batting further the way countless others have before.

I do however wonder how much the captaincy affects him - its one thing, as happened last year a few times, getting out to a good nut when set.  Its quite another when you're playing awful shots.  Looking at the NZ series, I wonder if:

Stoneman
Cook
Malan
Root
Bairstow (c)
Patel
Foakes (w)
Woakes
Roland-Jones/T Curran
Garton
Anderson


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FattusCattus

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2780 on: January 04, 2018, 05:44:08 PM »
I love the phrase used on cricinfo to describe James Vince -

"Pretty Starts and Brain-farts" :)
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2781 on: January 04, 2018, 06:26:14 PM »
Current team

Stoneman
Cook
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

Team for nz and next summer

Cook
Hameed
Gubbins
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
woakes
Leach
Broad
Anderson

Stoneman and Vince have Just not produced. Guts alone aren’t enough and looking pretty isn’t enough. Hameed May have had a bad run but I’d rather back him as he at least scored runs AND showed guts

Gubbins basically in for Vince

Leech in as specialist spinner.. we need wickets  and ali is neither good enough with the ball or bat to command a place.

If stokes continues to miss games then I’d slot in a wild card... a luxury player.. pick the fastest bowler we have if we think the wicket will be hard/flat or seam/swing.. if it’s the UAE .. pick a spinner (ali could come in as genuine second spinner for example)

Sure they might go for runs but meh.. just bowl faaaaast for 3/4 overs

I’d give the lot nz and next summer and remove all the above from all white ball games.. if they need to play, pick red ball county/state/province games. Start to make them get away from the white ball mindsets as while some techniques are lacking.. mindset can overcome technical faults

I’d now plan for Anderson and broad to go and get whoever we think there genuine replacements are playing red ball cricket exclusively. Get them learning how to play red ball, in England then when not playing.. away in Aus/Sa.

Just a thought but let’s not persist in picking white ball players for the test team and then wonder why they are consistent or can only perform when it’s flat / no pace

If that means specialising your best players and upping their contracts.. so be it

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edge

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2782 on: January 04, 2018, 07:07:34 PM »
Well that was a shock to wake up to after sleeping off night shift... Went to sleep after Root got out! Cannot believe Bayliss/Farbrace/Jimmy/whoever didn't have the wherewithal to tell Bairstow he wasn't going out to bat, that right there tells you plenty about the leadership of this England side.

As for the NZ tour, I think I'd stick with Stoneman for now and if he fails then in goes Hameed for the foreseeable future. Don't think Gubbins is the answer, unfortunately he got absolutely bugger all last year. I'd like to see Ballance and Vince left out and the squad feature two of Northeast, Clarke, Livingstone and Lawrence - probably Northeast and Clarke. Succession planning for Broad and Jimmy needs to start, I'd start by giving the promising few proper quicks some callups.
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ppccopener

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2783 on: January 04, 2018, 07:21:42 PM »
I don't think as much as we love Bairstow he is the brightest one in the camp, brilliant player no doubt, something missing thou  :)

Interesting thou on the night watchman thing, you can look at it two ways, your a proper batsman so get out there and not leave it to someone else, you protect the batters for the next day...Hmmmm.

England leave it up to the individual player. I have seen games thou I'm sure others have, the night watchman goes in, gets out, and then the proper batsman comes in, looks comical.

I don't think root should captain, I think he is our best batsman by miles but he keeps getting out with insignificant scores. 50 or 70 is good but top players get big hundreds.

Northeast and Clarke get mentioned a bit, super players. Technically Clarke could have the game, Northeast is more unorthodox.
It doesn't really matter which way if you score runs.

England generally like to pick younger players. I think Clarke might be a better long term bet.

Vince got out the same way again....he has got some runs but can you see him getting a hundred? I can't.
Stoneman is good,solid pro...we need that up top.
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six and out

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2784 on: January 04, 2018, 08:16:23 PM »
Vince has to go. He just hasn't got the patience for test cricket.

With regards Root the timings of everything coming up mean that we could give him a real rest by basically saying you aren't playing any white ball cricket. Just let him recharge a bit ready for the NZ tests.

England's schedule after this test -

14th - 28th January - 5 ODI's vs AUS
7th - 18th February - T20i Tri-series vs AUS and NZ
25th Feb - 9th March - 5 ODI'S vs NZ

Then the NZ test series starts on 22nd March.
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alexhilly1492

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2785 on: January 04, 2018, 08:25:30 PM »
The night watchman arguemant is daft if that ball was good enough for Johnny it was good enough for a bowler we know our bowlers can’t bat and probably would have been out quicker meaning Johnny was in anyway would we have had 2 night watchmen? No!

Good on him for taking it on!

Root stop  be a tit and getting out when you look comfortable!
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2786 on: January 04, 2018, 08:53:52 PM »
Quote from: alexhilly1492 on January 04, 2018, 08:25:30 PM
The night watchman arguemant is daft if that ball was good enough for Johnny it was good enough for a bowler we know our bowlers can’t bat and probably would have been out quicker meaning Johnny was in anyway would we have had 2 night watchmen? No!

Good on him for taking it on!

Root stop  be a tit and getting out when you look comfortable!

He’s not being a tit.. he’s just mentally not able to consistently bat long. The reason why is anyone’s guess. Personally I believe it’s because of the pre eminence of white ball he’s grown up playing and been playing for Yorkshire and England. If he was brought up and solely played red ball you’d probably see a huge mental difference.

Only a very very very select few are able to play all formats now (sure 10 years ago but white ball has changed a lot since then)
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edge

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2787 on: January 04, 2018, 08:55:01 PM »
Quote from: alexhilly1492 on January 04, 2018, 08:25:30 PM
The night watchman arguemant is daft if that ball was good enough for Johnny it was good enough for a bowler we know our bowlers can’t bat and probably would have been out quicker meaning Johnny was in anyway would we have had 2 night watchmen? No!

Good on him for taking it on!

Root stop  be a tit and getting out when you look comfortable!
A night watchman would have needed to take up two minutes to end the days play if they got out, so by the time they walk out to the middle, take guard etc, two balls? And then having gone out there, getting out having a (No Swearing Please) prod at the new ball with two balls left in the day! Any nightwatchman would have done the right thing and left it, not going out there trying to score. Pretty sure he's had a fuss before about having to wait to bat in the morning after a nightwatchman's been used so it's probably a purely selfish decision, think the whole thing reflects really poorly on Bairstow given the situation.
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Manormanic

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2788 on: January 04, 2018, 09:04:16 PM »
Root can concentrate - he has batted over a day several times and has several test and first class scores in advance of 150.  I think sometimes he gets  abit too "in" - but I also wonder to what extent his back problems play into this.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2789 on: January 04, 2018, 09:17:02 PM »
Quote from: Manormanic on January 04, 2018, 09:04:16 PM
Root can concentrate - he has batted over a day several times and has several test and first class scores in advance of 150.  I think sometimes he gets  abit too "in" - but I also wonder to what extent his back problems play into this.

Note the word ‘consistently’


No one is saying he can’t bat long... its whether he can consistently go big. Currently there is no debate in that he can’t.. 4x 50’s 0x 100’s

Smith 4x 50+ but.. converted 3 into 100+

That’s what root Just hasn’t shown., so currently it’s fair to say he can’t do it
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