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[Shinpathy]

Saqlain Mushtaq is there to milk the money while the sun still shines.

He has been useless whilst coaching other spinners, as well.

[Nmcgee]

Vaughan in todays papers in Oz saying Jack Leach is the best option for the next series.

[LateBloomer]

Vaughan is halfway down the slippery slope towards becoming Mark Nicholas. I would much prefer to see Crane but couldn't grumble if Leach was given a shot - he's been the leading English spinner in the championship over the last 2 seasons

Ali has been poor no doubt, maybe its the finger. In the cricket ive watched he is barely spinning the ball, just letting it go. He  had a great English summer with bat and ball so its a surprise he has struggled so badly with both down under. Im more surprised that his batting has failed so badly, he's looked like a walking wicket from the 2nd test

[Manormanic]

In terms of spin options, the fact is that England just don't have many, especially given their inexplicable axing of Rashid.  Ali is a batsman who will do a job at home batting eight and sending down a few overs - a role that could also be performed by Samit Patel.  Beyond those three, there are precious few options.

Crane is a promising kid, but the fact is, Dawid Malan has a better first class average bowling leg spin than Crane presently does, and Mason is not even a first choice pick for his county.  Jack Leach has some decent first class returns over the last two years but the suspicion has to be that he would not get his action past international umpires and television cameras.  Dom Bess for me is one who could have the potential, but at present he is not playing every game for his county which is hampering his development.  The other big hope of recent years, Alex Riley, has dropped out of the Kent side. 

Seriously, its not a great lot to choose from...

[six and out]

In terms of spin options, the fact is that England just don't have many, especially given their inexplicable axing of Rashid.  Ali is a batsman who will do a job at home batting eight and sending down a few overs - a role that could also be performed by Samit Patel.  Beyond those three, there are precious few options.

Crane is a promising kid, but the fact is, Dawid Malan has a better first class average bowling leg spin than Crane presently does, and Mason is not even a first choice pick for his county.  Jack Leach has some decent first class returns over the last two years but the suspicion has to be that he would not get his action past international umpires and television cameras.  Dom Bess for me is one who could have the potential, but at present he is not playing every game for his county which is hampering his development.  The other big hope of recent years, Alex Riley, has dropped out of the Kent side. 

Seriously, its not a great lot to choose from...

Leach went to Loughborough and has apparently changed his action and it's fine now. He wouldn't have been picked for the Lions otherwise.

Along with who you have mentioned....

Amar Virdi from Surrey is a very good prospect and had a good Lions tour. Out bowling Leach on occasions.

Lancashire leg-spinner Matthew Parkinson, who is currently in Sydney on an ECB Overseas Placement, is going on the Lions tour to WI.

Like you said though the problem is the youngsters just don't get the overs.

[ppccopener]

In terms of spin options, the fact is that England just don't have many, especially given their inexplicable axing of Rashid.  Ali is a batsman who will do a job at home batting eight and sending down a few overs - a role that could also be performed by Samit Patel.  Beyond those three, there are precious few options.

Crane is a promising kid, but the fact is, Dawid Malan has a better first class average bowling leg spin than Crane presently does, and Mason is not even a first choice pick for his county.  Jack Leach has some decent first class returns over the last two years but the suspicion has to be that he would not get his action past international umpires and television cameras.  Dom Bess for me is one who could have the potential, but at present he is not playing every game for his county which is hampering his development.  The other big hope of recent years, Alex Riley, has dropped out of the Kent side. 

Seriously, its not a great lot to choose from...

Your right, and so is everyone else, spin is a problem.nothing has actually changed on this tour and spin was a problem a year ago. I'm not sure what Rashid is pencilled In for, one day and t20 it seems. If you believe the rumours, England don't like his attitude...this could mean anything.there must be a problem thou otherwise he would be playing.

As far as Kent  goes I have a friend who plays for them, he was third choice spinner in 2016 but has played one day and championship cricket in 2017, so Alex Riley who was indeed highly rated, has dropped off and may need to move Counties depending on what Tredwell does, or has the opportunity to do in 2018.

Incidentally just read an interview with Bayliss and the three players he mentioned do In there were
Liam living stone
Joe clark
And Dan Lawrence.

I know a few on here have mentioned Lawrence as a possible England player.

[Bats_Entertainment]

No-one is talking about why this (the demise of English spin bowling) is happening?

[Manormanic]

Leach went to Loughborough and has apparently changed his action and it's fine now. He wouldn't have been picked for the Lions otherwise.

Along with who you have mentioned....

Amar Virdi from Surrey is a very good prospect and had a good Lions tour. Out bowling Leach on occasions.

Lancashire leg-spinner Matthew Parkinson, who is currently in Sydney on an ECB Overseas Placement, is going on the Lions tour to WI.

Like you said though the problem is the youngsters just don't get the overs.

Virdi won't get much Championship cricket behind Batty and Borthwick. Parkinson looked okay in the hit and giggle but again, how much Championship cricket will he get in a squad that has Croft, Parry, Kerrigan, Lilley...

[Manormanic]

Your right, and so is everyone else, spin is a problem.nothing has actually changed on this tour and spin was a problem a year ago. I'm not sure what Rashid is pencilled In for, one day and t20 it seems. If you believe the rumours, England don't like his attitude...this could mean anything.there must be a problem thou otherwise he would be playing.

As far as Kent  goes I have a friend who plays for them, he was third choice spinner in 2016 but has played one day and championship cricket in 2017, so Alex Riley who was indeed highly rated, has dropped off and may need to move Counties depending on what Tredwell does, or has the opportunity to do in 2018.

Incidentally just read an interview with Bayliss and the three players he mentioned do In there were
Liam living stone
Joe clark
And Dan Lawrence.

I know a few on here have mentioned Lawrence as a possible England player.

Lawrence I had not seen till last year, he looked decent. Livingstone is the one England cocked up though. Instead of silly T20s and filthy offices, he should have been developed as a top order bat who can bowl functional leggies.

[Manormanic]

No-one is talking about why this (the demise of English spin bowling) is happening?

No Championship cricket played above 15 degrees you mean?

[ppccopener]

No-one is talking about why this (the demise of English spin bowling) is happening?

Has to start and end with the pitches that are produced surely? If you have a quality spinner in your side the pitch will be prepared accordingly. Saqlain at Surrey, leach had pitches to help him in 2016, Worcester may of left pitches dry for Ashwin in the second half of 2017 when we got a bucketful for them.

Aside from Warne and maybe Vettori, the best spinners have been produced from Asian countries. That can't be a coincidence?

With promotion and relegation high stakes now, teams will produce pitches to their strengths, and have done for ages.

In the Uk odds are stacked against, hard to see how this can change in the short term

[Mister Le Chiffre]

The key question regarding Moeen Ali should be is he good enough as a pure batsman to play Test cricket. Secondly is he good enough as a spinner for Test cricket. Unfortunately for the lad it's no on both counts. Aside from the subcontinent, Moeen's incapable of batting in the top 6. Similarly his bowling average is 48 in away matches, which quite frankly is pathetic. In home conditions we find away of hiding him at 8 and let's him steal a few wickets. If we had genuine ambitions of being the best Test side. We pick the best spinner(it's not Moeen in a month of Sundays) and the best top 6(again Moeen isn't one of them).

He's had his moment is the Test side, now is the time to ditch the deadwood and get Adil, Leach or Crane bedded in before we rock up in Sri Lanka next winter.

[Bats_Entertainment]

No Championship cricket played above 15 degrees you mean?

Basically, yes.

[edge]

Morgan's strategy in the ODI side is a good one to look at - if Stokes and Moeen are both available then the side is 5 batsmen, keeper, 2 allrounders, 4 bowlers. If Stokes isn't playing, the balance of the team changes as we don't have a direct replacement. You can replace him with a bowler, or a batsman, or forget replacing him and rethink how you balance the team. Replacing with a batsman leaves an attack of 4 bowlers plus Moeen - no good as Moeen is a luxury bowler rather than dependable. Replacing with a bowler leaves us a batsman light, so what do they do? Change tack and play 6 batsmen, keeper and 5 specialist bowlers = no space for Moeen.

Given Stokes isn't coming back any time soon, let's hope they have a proper think and rework the team properly rather than just picking an extra bowler and bunging everyone up a spot. Personally I'd consider a top 5 batsmen, YJB/Samit whichever way round, then 3 seamers and a specialist spinner. Maybe Crane takes loads of poles at Sydney and a star is born, maybe give Leach a go, who knows.