Innovation in bat making
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JK Lewis

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2018, 08:04:03 PM »
Quote from: InternalTraining on February 28, 2018, 07:56:15 PM
Attach this to a small LCD display with a chip inside that calculates the JKL-B unit (:D) would be great!

Nice idea! Very proud to be part of your 3,000th comment old boy.
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JK Lewis

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2018, 08:08:38 PM »
Quote from: edge on February 28, 2018, 07:25:11 PM
Best photo of a Modulus I could find, basically channels cut in the back of the bat and then filled with a honeycomb insert to keep the stiffness of the blade while losing weight. Worked well iirc but obviously the ICC ban hammer came down.


Regards ping testing - all you need is a machine or arm that will swing the bat at a set speed and a method of measuring the resulting ball speed; high speed camera plus a graduated background or similar. It's then reasonably simple maths to convert that speed result into a value of coefficient of restitution for the bat (i.e. ping). Plenty of research labs have this setup in some form or other for sports testing, in baseball there's even a testing standard for non-wooden bats.

Problems with cricket - wood's a natural product so even if one example of a bat model produces a certain result, another may not. How much do you knock it in pre-test, etc etc. Balls are also not very heavily regulated so you'd get very different results due to variations in balls. In a potential future where we ditch willow and bats are made from composites COR would be very useful indeed but probably isn't now. Also, the middle position on cricket bats varies - to have a standardised test you'd need a set impact point, which would potentially discriminate against bats that had different middles. To be honest, the effect of middle position on cor would be far more interesting than just looking at ping!

On a more mundane note, a ruler and a camera would do the job - drop a ball on a bat from a set height and measure how high it bounces.


Very interesting thoughts, thanks. I agree that standardising would be very important. Honestly, I doubt that a ball being dropped onto a flat bat bounces very much, and it would be a pretty boring test. I like the spring loaded idea better, to measure the rebound.
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edge

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2018, 08:24:43 PM »
Depends how high you drop it from ha! In either case, the trouble with just testing the surface properties of the bat is that it's a big simplification of a fairly complicated dynamic problem. Finding the right bat for you is considerably more important than how it pings, I'd argue, and that really is hard to test for.
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InternalTraining

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2018, 08:47:05 PM »
^ I think you are overcomplicating a solution to a not so simple problem.

What other factors, other than JKL-Balls units, do we need to help the bat selection process easier for the consumer?

- Mid-point/Balance-point?
- Swing weight?
- Dead weight?
- Node of percussion?

What else? What can we do to standardize these factors so that bat selection becomes a science not an art?

Did you every buy a car by test driving it and sticking your head out of the window to "feel" how wind feels against your face like your old Yugo? :D
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procricket

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2018, 08:58:47 PM »
Quote from: InternalTraining on February 28, 2018, 08:47:05 PM
^ I think you are overcomplicating a solution to a not so simple problem.

What other factors, other than JKL-Balls units, do we need to help the bat selection process easier for the consumer?

- Mid-point/Balance-point?
- Swing weight?
- Dead weight?
- Node of percussion?

What else? What can we do to standardize these factors so that bat selection becomes a science not an art?

Did you every buy a car by test driving it and sticking your head out of the window to "feel" how wind feels against your face like your old Yugo? :D

What happens to all the bats that don’t sell

What happens after knocking in and after storage (heat issue)

I understand what your saying but realistically people well most do not care and in truth pick up a bag and go

It like any industry standard in bats will never happen.”would you take a punt on a bat that’s not currently a goer”
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InternalTraining

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2018, 02:26:44 AM »
Quote from: procricket on February 28, 2018, 08:58:47 PM

Quote from: InternalTraining on February 28, 2018, 08:47:05 PM
^ I think you are overcomplicating a solution to a not so simple problem.

What other factors, other than JKL-Balls units, do we need to help the bat selection process easier for the consumer?

- Mid-point/Balance-point?
- Swing weight?
- Dead weight?
- Node of percussion?

What else? What can we do to standardize these factors so that bat selection becomes a science not an art?

Did you every buy a car by test driving it and sticking your head out of the window to "feel" how wind feels against your face like your old Yugo? :D

What happens to all the bats that don’t sell

What happens to bats that don't sell now? What's the connection to the factors I outlined above?
Quote
What happens after knocking in and after storage (heat issue)
Does a bat's swing weight change after knocking and "in/after storage"? How are the factors outlined above change due to knocking or storage?

Quote
I understand what your saying but realistically people well most do not care and in truth pick up a bag and go
This is my point as well, we are in such a state because people don't care. It is a dying sport. How do we make people care about their gear and its quality?
Quote
It like any industry standard in bats will never happen.”would you take a punt on a bat that’s not currently a goer”
There are lot of commercial items that have standards that people don't even think about anymore. Anti-lock brakes. Car's horse power. 1080P Resolution. Retina display. I can go on and on. To me, it seems cricket bat industry is happy to provide a sub-standard service and consumers (lazy) are happy to eat it up. What excites today's cricket bat consumers? Stickers and endorsements!
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edge

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2018, 03:51:19 AM »
Quote from: InternalTraining on March 01, 2018, 02:26:44 AM
There are lot of commercial items that have standards that people don't even think about anymore. Anti-lock brakes. Car's horse power. 1080P Resolution. Retina display. I can go on and on. To me, it seems cricket bat industry is happy to provide a sub-standard service and consumers (lazy) are happy to eat it up. What excites today's cricket bat consumers? Stickers and endorsements!
I should have learnt not to engage by now but... literally none of those is a standard? I mean, retina display is a brand name for goodness' sake.

The cricket bat industry provides what the consumers want, which it can hardly be blamed for.
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InternalTraining

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2018, 04:49:50 AM »
Quote from: edge on March 01, 2018, 03:51:19 AM
I should have learnt not to engage by now but... literally none of those is a standard? I mean, retina display is a brand name for goodness' sake.
Not yet but will be.

1080P is a standard.
Quote
The cricket bat industry provides what the consumers want, which it can hardly be blamed for.
  And that is a big  mistake. Industry should be forward thinking. The reason they don’t innovate is because they can sell old style crap marketed to romantics (primarily in England and Australia) yearning for glorious old days of  WG Grace and his toothpick sized bats.

When Henry Ford asked farmers what they wanted, they told him they wanted a faster horse. He built model-T.

Don’t defend the current industry. Think big for a change. Sheesh.

I sometimes wonder if the reason that there hasn’t been any innovation in the cricket bats is because the rules are made by England and Australia, two of the most traditionalist (romantic ie backward thinking ) markets when it comes to cricket gear.



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skip1973

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2018, 05:48:33 AM »
The earth is flat and the government has bugged all of our phones.
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procricket

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2018, 07:24:31 AM »
Quote from: InternalTraining on March 01, 2018, 02:26:44 AM
What happens to all the bats that don’t sell

What happens to bats that don't sell now? What's the connection to the factors I outlined above?  Does a bat's swing weight change after knocking and "in/after storage"? How are the factors outlined above change due to knocking or storage?
 This is my point as well, we are in such a state because people don't care. It is a dying sport. How do we make people care about their gear and its quality?There are lot of commercial items that have standards that people don't even think about anymore. Anti-lock brakes. Car's horse power. 1080P Resolution. Retina display. I can go on and on. To me, it seems cricket bat industry is happy to provide a sub-standard service and consumers (lazy) are happy to eat it up. What excites today's cricket bat consumers? Stickers and endorsements!

Of course a bats swing and pick up will change through time you may not notice but it does no bat will stay the same over time.

It is a bit like handpicked by a shop which I will grant may give you a fussy feeling but in truth is not great because everybody is different and will look for different things because like bats we are all different. One mans crap is another gold.

Cars are standard by there mechanical nature -bats are not.

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Kulli

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2018, 07:46:31 AM »
Could someone have started a new thread for this instead of ruining mines! :(
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InternalTraining

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2018, 02:36:08 PM »
Quote from: skip1973 on March 01, 2018, 05:48:33 AM
The earth is flat and the government has bugged all of our phones.

You are critical because that's your bread and butter. You sell bats by talking about subjective factors in your videos. Makes sense.
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InternalTraining

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2018, 02:38:26 PM »
Quote from: procricket on March 01, 2018, 07:24:31 AM
Of course a bats swing and pick up will change through time you may not notice but it does no bat will stay the same over time.

Change by  how much? We won't know until we start measuring and make that process and its results standards.

Quote

It is a bit like handpicked by a shop which I will grant may give you a fussy feeling but in truth is not great because everybody is different and will look for different things because like bats we are all different. One mans crap is another gold.

That is EXACTLY why standardization will help! Get 5 or 6 factors standardized and remove this subjective, fussy feeling nonsense. On top of that, it will easy to replicate "the feel" with custom bat makers when there are standards for bats.
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procricket

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2018, 02:44:23 PM »
Quote from: InternalTraining on March 01, 2018, 02:38:26 PM
Change by  how much? We won't know until we start measuring and make that process and its results standards.

That is EXACTLY why standardization will help! Get 5 or 6 factors standardized and remove this subjective, fussy feeling nonsense. On top of that, it will easy to replicate "the feel" with custom bat makers when there are standards for bats.

Sorry but no simply no.

Have you ever been in a workshop??

Willow is too varible. Ask the batamkers themself they if there honest will tell you. Most people pay for stickers and straight lines.

You can not standardize williow.

even machine made bats have varients no matter how much you think.

Most of the things you want to standardise are peronal opinion.

Mate i too at times when i was younger would love standardization.

To put your point in to question anybody go to a cricket shop and pick a bat up. Remember the first bat you picked up then go around the shop take over 5 minutes then come back to that bat. I almost guarentee you it will feel different. Your idea of a number here may work but people even have difference of thoughts on pick up(what picks up well for player a may be different to player b). Then add gloves or no gloves as you know bats feel different with gloves on.

Inital Ping test then retest after a year i guarentee you this there will be no pattern of results.

In my theory is 90 per cent of all bats are equal and there no difference in rebound quality after a period of use.

The difference is the person holdding the bat ability feel and pick up and shape which is all personal.

We love a good yarn but in truth a bats a bat all mostly end up the same to most users.

Us on here though love to talk about mythical things, grains wide narrow who pressed and the mythical Pro bats.

I will admit when i did a little bit for a company i did do the marketing nine yards but in truth over the 10 years on here and 100 of bats most have been the same no matter what the grade-i just liked the pick up and shape at the time.


« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 02:55:53 PM by procricket »
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procricket

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Re: Innovation in bat making
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2018, 03:01:07 PM »
I would like handle tech to be looked and and do like a good drilled bat.

I like the idea of the cut of Dhoni style toes to save weight too.
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