England test tour to New Zealand
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Buzz

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #165 on: March 22, 2018, 01:15:47 PM »

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1916325525045911&id=121538134524668

They just bowled a tremendous length. Which our bowlers with their back of a length obsession didn't do.
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ppccopener

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #166 on: March 22, 2018, 01:21:17 PM »

They did indeed bowl very well they are a good side as we have said

England need the surgeons knife thou Buzz. If we say root is the captain(he shouldn’t be)

How about going back a bit in thinking?

We play a specialist spinner
Bairstow as a batter only

It may focus the players a bit
I still say Ben Stokes has covered our ass in recent years

Leach and foakes in for me, mo Ali and Overton or broad out
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 01:23:26 PM by ppccopener »
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #167 on: March 22, 2018, 01:34:14 PM »

They won’t change things so it’s all mute. I’d change everything now and work on the theory of building up for the next away ashes. Any player who will be older than say 34 I’d just Sack off and start again. We are 7th in the world with this mob, might as well clear out the players, clear out the coshcing.

Saldy, that won’t make much difference as the county game down to grass roots simply isn’t geared to producing test players. It’s producing white ball players
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procricket

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #168 on: March 22, 2018, 01:57:17 PM »

I want to see the quickest bowler in county cricket play just for some shits and giggles

Shame he not playing in his county side but he got me out last year so I would go with Him.

He a left armer too

Money in the white ball game so that's what's going to happen.

I feel we are going backwards in world cricket though there some very Deepak Patel Istsy bitsy types who are playing top  cricket for my liking .
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 02:04:29 PM by procricket »
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KD4

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #169 on: March 22, 2018, 02:40:21 PM »

That was one very poor batting display and that me putting it kindly. The only person that comes away with a bit of credit is Overton, the rest were woeful.
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Mpt7

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #170 on: March 22, 2018, 03:44:28 PM »

It was a pretty pathetic morning of cricket from an English perspective

NZ were outstanding. England were awful. the two together meant we saw an awful total

The players take the responsibility. let's see a reaction in the next innings.

poor bowlers - they must be delighted to have such total to bowl at!

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Manormanic

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #171 on: March 22, 2018, 04:17:03 PM »

I still say Ben Stokes has covered our ass in recent years

The combination of Stokes, Bairstow, Ali, Woakes and to a lesser extent Broad (whose statistcal returns are much better than his flailing Phil Tufnell act would imply) have done so.

But I wonder if that is part of the problem.  The top five, Root apart (because his issues are more those of the over confidence of someone who knows he is world class), know they don't have to do it because there is always some other bugger to do so.  Even in the bowling, there is a sense that our attack sometimes bowls back of a length to dry up the runs knowing wickets'lll happen eventually.  Bairstow's role should be decided by whether the selectors have a youngster in need of batting seven in the side.

So, along the lines of what you said, we have to go back to specialisms.  Yes, Stokes at five/six balances our side by allowing us to play five bowlers, but the other four should be selected purely with the acquisition of 20 wickets in mind.  That means our best two opening bowlers, our best third seamer to provide variety (ie pace, sharp swing or a left arm angle) and our best spinner.

So a top seven of either:

Cook
An Opener (Stoneman if he makes runs now, if not, the guy who starts the CC season best)
Malan
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Livingstone

Or:
Cook
Opener
Malan
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes/Buttler

Then Anderson, Broad/Woakes, one of TRJ/Wood/Footitt/Garton/Willey/Jamie Overton/Mahmood and a spinner.  Leach seems to be looking a better pick with every game he is left out, but my personal choice would be his Somerset team mate Bess, who appears absolute quality and has the off spinners advantage of turning the ball away from the plethora of left handers in the international game.
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procricket

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #172 on: March 22, 2018, 04:36:10 PM »

I do not see Malan as long term and I'm not sure why. Stoneman was given a go after a great few seasons but he not cutting it.

Bairstow needs a better return of 3 ton in his last 46 innings in test cricket to be considered a top order match winner. (yes i know he batted with the tail and yes he consistant but needs to score bigger runs).
I know he a much better player than that but needs to prove it with more 100's.

Bowling is a bit same old same old. I want to see Garton and Barber (wildcard hope he makes the breakthrough his pace deserves) and Mahmood more.

Tons

Stokes has 3 in last 36 Innings
Cook 4 in 48 innings
Root 4 in last 43 innings
Baristow 3 in 46 innings
Ali 3 in 42 innings
Malan 1 in 18 innings

Thats the issue i think not enough big scores for our gun players i mean real big innings yes they all average well well Stokes and Bairstow under 40 but with there added duties i guess it balances out.

edited Bairstow STATS
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 04:56:56 PM by procricket »
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Seniorplayer

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #173 on: March 22, 2018, 04:44:48 PM »

It's  still possibble  forum favourite Woakes will bowl England to victory
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procricket

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #174 on: March 22, 2018, 04:50:54 PM »

Here a few to compare in same period

Mainly from 2016 till today

100 in tests selected few number followed by innings.

Kohli 9 in 40
Smith 9 in 42
Elgar 7 in 40
Williamson 5 in 26
De Kock 2 in 39
Pujara 7 in 40

That's a big issue with our batting anybody think our batting has been up to standard for the last couple of years only needs to see big scores win games we simply do not score enough of them.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 04:53:16 PM by procricket »
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Manormanic

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #175 on: March 22, 2018, 04:57:27 PM »

Bairstow needs a better return of 3 ton in his last 46 innings in test cricket to be considered a top order match winner. (yes i know he batted with the tail and yes he consistant but needs to score bigger runs).
I know he a much better player than that but needs to prove it with more 100's.

His figures are better than other keepers in world cricket, and do not account for the 99, or for the frequency with which he has been trapped with the tail.  He should bat six if he keeps, four/five if not, and others should fit around him. 
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procricket

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #176 on: March 22, 2018, 04:58:30 PM »

His figures are better than other keepers in world cricket, and do not account for the 99, or for the frequency with which he has been trapped with the tail.  He should bat six if he keeps, four/five if not, and others should fit around him.

 I agree pal it part of my point i agree keeping takes something away from him and he the best of the rest for me but some of the other stats it hard to think Dean Elgar has as many 100 in half the innings as Root and Cook.

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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #177 on: March 22, 2018, 04:59:13 PM »

So we know the current lot don’t cut it in tests or against the moving ball so someone puts buttler’s name down.. wtf

He is literally the definition of a white ball hitter with little technique vs anything other than up and down.

Jesus

Dave is again, making excellent points but then he’s not eeyoore so maybe peoooe will listen more

You can’t keep calling our players world class as they simply don’t back it up when compared to the very few genuine players out there. When they come off great but as Dave points out.. it’s infrequent which is actually sort of what you want from a test top six..
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procricket

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #178 on: March 22, 2018, 05:00:46 PM »

Dean Elgar 7 in 40 vs Root/Cook 8 in 91.

all i'm saying and how many of you would call Elgar world class.

In truth Amla has only 3 in 40...

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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England test tour to New Zealand
« Reply #179 on: March 22, 2018, 05:01:45 PM »

Dean Elgar 7 in 40 vs Root/Cook 8 in 91.

all i'm saying

And no one would consider him much cop.. gritty yes... a great player... not so much
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