Ben Stokes Trial
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SD

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #105 on: August 14, 2018, 10:04:47 PM »

Of course. But as I've said, the CCTV evidence cropping up put them in a very very tricky position and they must have believed they had a realistic chance of conviction.

The day when the CPS make decisions as to whether or not to charge an individual based on what information the Sun choices to release to its readers is the day that we all need to find a new country to live in.  It is to the significant discredit of the ECB that they have given the time of day to this complete nonsense
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LateBloomer

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #106 on: August 14, 2018, 10:09:45 PM »

Oh, believe me, I too hate the CPS but in this instance, I believe they were put in a very difficult spot with the CCTV coming out. They had to take some action and perhaps thought it easier to bundle them together as affray.

I'll never moan about people being brought to court though after knocking people unconscious and fracturing bones, though.

Fair call.
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LEACHY48

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #107 on: August 14, 2018, 10:31:38 PM »

Don't know where to start on this statement... But what a load of bullocks!!!
Previous convictions don't get mentioned in a criminal trial.. A fine or a caution is an option for any police officer. And if more than one MP didn't get prosecuted for fiddling their expenses then why wouldn't CPS not let stokes off for something a lot less..
Finally, I would hope CPS don't prosecute people just because they are in a tricky spot...

I’m afraid you are severely misinformed. Tom is right. Furthermore, previous criminal convictions are 9/10 times inadmissible in trials due to being outside the scope. As somebody that has been through the majority (not all, and I am not a warranted officer, however) of training to become a special constable, I can say with 100% certainty and confidence that the statement ‘a fine or caution is an option for any police officer’ is categorically untrue and again misinformed. Also you appear to be confusing the role of the CPS and the police in this matter. Ultimately, the police are nothing but evidence gatherers. They make the necessary arrests, conduct interviews, and obtain all the evidence that is both relevant and necessary to the case, they then present all this evidence to the CPS at which point, the case is out of their hands. A police officer cannot simply not arrest someone for such a serious offence as an affray, and therefore in the stokes incident, there was no other path this could have followed.

Also the CPS are accountable to the public, in this instance, they had public outcry that stokes had got himself involved, they had a wealth of evidence that an offence had occurred and so it would be stupid to not charge, I agree they should not have charged for affray, but they had to do something
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 07:34:13 AM by LEACHY48 »
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roco

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #108 on: August 15, 2018, 07:28:36 AM »

He will be offered counselling for anger management and put on performance management as most companies would due to not guilty but bringing negative attention to organisation. It’s a way to look like doing something without doing something

Depending on level of employee most companies have clauses for disciplinary action for bringing company into disrepute and even a not guilty of a crime can still bring company into disrepute so they could progress it, it depends entirely on the contract which none of us have seen.
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tim2000s

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #109 on: August 15, 2018, 07:43:19 AM »

I meet the costs of playing cricket by undertaking the rather less important occupation of an employment lawyer and this isn't a relevant analogy.  An employer may suspend pending the outcome of criminal proceedings but you would be on a sticky wicket if you tried to take it further after they had been acquitted.
Yet again this misses the point. It's not the trial that's the issue in my example or the Stokes/Hale case. That's a separate issues in relation to HR and employment law.

It's that the incident happened in relation to "company business", and having been involved in internal disciplinary procedures linked to other's behaviour in an evening linked to "company business", I can assure you that disciplinary procedures are undertaken, even if at the end of them there is limited punishment.

However much we may like to ignore it, as a representative of England cricket celebrating the win, he is no different to an employee of Large Corporation celebrating a big sale. In both cases, if you get into a massive fight in the street, get arrested for it and it goes to trial, and is videoed and sold to the Sun and you and your company identified in the process, especially if it's identified that you were out celebrating something to do with your company, you will end up with a disciplinary investigation.

It doesn't matter about the outcome of the trial - it's that you've brought poor publicity onto your employer, and that anyone doing a search for the company is going to see this in google at the top of the search listings for weeks at a time.

Most employee contracts have a statement such as:

Quote
You are expected to conduct yourself in a professional manner at all times, including when not at work, with proper consideration for your colleagues and the standing of the company. This extends to any social events you may attend arranged [...] or any action you take outside of work which may bring the company into disrepute.

This will be what the conduct commission is looking at.
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petehosk

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #110 on: August 15, 2018, 07:54:26 AM »

He will be offered counselling for anger management and put on performance management as most companies would due to not guilty but bringing negative attention to organisation. It’s a way to look like doing something without doing something

In all honesty, I hope they do ensure both BS and AH do this.
I know it seems like they are doing nothing but I reckon he needs Anger Management treatment! Just hope he doesn't lose his on-field aggression when he plays cricket.
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Kulli

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #111 on: August 15, 2018, 08:02:44 AM »

Possibly booze management training too.
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roco

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #112 on: August 15, 2018, 08:07:28 AM »

In all honesty, I hope they do ensure both BS and AH do this.
I know it seems like they are doing nothing but I reckon he needs Anger Management treatment! Just hope he doesn't lose his on-field aggression when he plays cricket.

Having had anger management therapy when younger it doesn’t take it away from you so should be ok it teaches you when to let it out and when not too , I had sport and martial arts as outlets.
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The first cricket box was used in 1874.  The first cricket helmet was introduced in 1974. So, it took 100 years for men to twig that their brains were also worth protecting.

stevat

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #113 on: August 15, 2018, 08:55:59 AM »

I'm not sure you can be described as being on company business in a ropey nightclub in Bristol?  I'd argue that it's different when touring, as you sort of represent the nation in that case (as do us all when we travel) but in his home country it's hardly official business, not a great idea to go on the blitzer during or inbetween games mind. 
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Kulli

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #114 on: August 15, 2018, 09:14:36 AM »

I'm not sure you can be described as being on company business in a ropey nightclub in Bristol?  I'd argue that it's different when touring, as you sort of represent the nation in that case (as do us all when we travel) but in his home country it's hardly official business, not a great idea to go on the blitzer during or inbetween games mind.
With colleagues right after a game though.
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tim2000s

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #115 on: August 15, 2018, 09:45:28 AM »

I'm not sure you can be described as being on company business in a ropey nightclub in Bristol?  I'd argue that it's different when touring, as you sort of represent the nation in that case (as do us all when we travel) but in his home country it's hardly official business, not a great idea to go on the blitzer during or inbetween games mind.
It doesn't really matter. What everyone's forgetting is that when you are employed, most employment contracts have terms that stop you doing stupid stuff outside work that if linked to your company can bring the company into disrepute. This case exposes just that. And if it also highlights to people that they have clauses such as this in employment contracts, it's probably not a bad thing.
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #116 on: August 15, 2018, 04:18:59 PM »

It doesn't really matter. What everyone's forgetting is that when you are employed, most employment contracts have terms that stop you doing stupid stuff outside work that if linked to your company can bring the company into disrepute. This case exposes just that. And if it also highlights to people that they have clauses such as this in employment contracts, it's probably not a bad thing.

You know what that they say about contracts of Employment if it's  not written it does count I should know  having written hundreds
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 07:17:22 PM by Seniorplayer »
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roco

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #117 on: August 16, 2018, 06:34:25 AM »

You know what that they say about contracts of Employment if it's  not written it does count I should know  having written hundreds

Exactly as I said above

It will completely depend on what’s in his contract so people saying you can’t do xyz are talking crap. If he has clauses about bad press from his own actions which you would assume is in a high profile public figures contract he can be disciplined

If apple ceo was out brawling not matter the verdict I doubt he would be ceo for much longer
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The first cricket box was used in 1874.  The first cricket helmet was introduced in 1974. So, it took 100 years for men to twig that their brains were also worth protecting.

FattusCattus

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #118 on: August 16, 2018, 07:23:19 AM »

Whilst I am firmly in the 'didn't like what Stokes did' camp, and think he's been a total pr*ck for being out drinking that late....

Michael Vaughan really does say the things that don;t need to be said doesn't he? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/45203186
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ScottParko

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #119 on: August 16, 2018, 07:33:05 AM »

Whilst I am firmly in the 'didn't like what Stokes did' camp, and think he's been a total pr*ck for being out drinking that late....

Michael Vaughan really does say the things that don;t need to be said doesn't he? https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/45203186

Vaughan winds me up more and more each day! Still haven’t forgiven him for beating Bangladesh I think it was a day early in 2005 so he could go to the League 1 Play Off final against my team!
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