Grading - the great mystery
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2018, 03:09:52 PM »

Generally though retailers don't stock blemished  bats on there shelves as they have no  appeal to the general bat buying public.

Why butterfly is such good value?
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SLA

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #76 on: October 25, 2018, 03:13:04 PM »

looks (which is I believe generally a passable indicator of performance

Specifically, what features do you think indicate good performance?

and by good performance do you mean good immediate ping or good longevity, as I think we all agree there is a payoff to be had based on the water content of the cleft.
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Kulli

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #77 on: October 25, 2018, 03:13:55 PM »

Why butterfly is such good value?
Indeed, it's far from limited to cricket bats. Humans will choose the prettier of pretty much anything (unless we're receiving some sort of information we trust that the ugly is better) just look at the number of vegetables thrown away because they're superficially not good enough.

Specifically, what features do you think indicate good performance?

and by good performance do you mean good immediate ping or good longevity, as I think we all agree there is a payoff to be had based on the water content of the cleft.

I've never been too fussed by the number of grains, but have always looked for evenly spaces grains that are as similar as possible on the back as the front.
I've heard a few batmakers who's opinion I value saying grains running straight through the whole cleft (face to rear) is a good indicator of performance/strength, though there is maybe a bit of confirmation bias in that.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 03:17:43 PM by Kulli »
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Novak

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #78 on: October 25, 2018, 03:16:20 PM »

Out of interest

High price top end for a cricket bat

How does moisture effect rebound

Fast 70mph plus income call and you feel the willow abosrb the impact as opposed to rebounds it as much as it should

Does that indicate more mositure in the willow ?
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SLA

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #79 on: October 25, 2018, 03:22:13 PM »

Out of interest

High price top end for a cricket bat

How does moisture effect rebound

Fast 70mph plus income call and you feel the willow abosrb the impact as opposed to rebounds it as much as it should

Does that indicate more mositure in the willow ?

Bats that have a lower water content are harder and brittler, meaning they absorb less energy, so the ball pings off harder, but are also far more likely to split.

The optimum water content for a professional who gets his bats for free and has 5-6 of them in his bag is lower than for an amateur who has a bat he wants to last for a few seasons at least.

Personally I'd rather have a bat with slightly less ping that lasts for 5 years.
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Novak

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #80 on: October 25, 2018, 03:27:59 PM »

Agree but there has to an acceptable level .

I think the whole cricket bat selling on performance and high prices and grades is a total con

I have learnt a lot on here . My fav brand is an Indian supplied
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Neon Cricket

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2018, 03:53:11 PM »

But, if memory serves, you have a grade 2 or 3 match bat yourself?

Your memory is correct, yet I’m failing to see the point you’re trying to make?

I ordered a G3 for a Facebook competition. It arrived. The pick up and balance felt perfect. Subsequently ordered another G3 for Facebook and kept the original to become my match bat. If anything it proves that performance grading is utter (No Swearing Please), I had over 100 bats pass through my hands last year and it’s a G3 I chose.


Putting that to one side...

I’ll say it once more as a general comment as this thread is total tripe. All bats will perform when pressed AND knocked in correctly. If your bat is truly not performing then either A. You haven’t prepared it right or B. Your ability probably means you’re struggling to find the middle (and I suspect B is the issue in most cases - if you’re telling me Ali Cook couldn’t get a Saturday league ton with your “plank” then you’re wrong.)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 03:55:05 PM by Neon Cricket »
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Yorkershire

Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #82 on: October 25, 2018, 03:55:59 PM »

Buy within your means and what makes you happy!

Most I've spent on a bat is £245.00 for a bat. It's top end what I would pay. I accept that there's massive value to be had elsewhere at lower prices.

We are all human and like nice and shiny things!  :D

I love the passion here, sometimes I forget that all of you are not full time internationals!  ;)
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Real Munson

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2018, 04:08:53 PM »

I think it's quite simple - go to someone like Hell 4 Leather/Salix (those two are local to me) tell them your budget and they will pick out a load of bats for you, whack them with a mallet and tell you which one's ping the best and then it's down to you as to what feels the best in your hands. They aren't going to sell you a dud - you'll never use them if they do.
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #84 on: October 25, 2018, 04:09:47 PM »

I personally think GM have got a lot to hide. They are clearly making the case that clean willow performs better when most of us, and many very capable batmakers, believe that not to be true.

Even Soulman, who currently seems to be GMs biggest fan, champions the cause of their lower end bats.

I’m a champion of lower end bats whenand only when it’s from a trust worthy source whom I know and trust to press a bat well, after many years playing the game I personally score as many runs and Tons now with G2 or G3 bats as I did when I joined this forum and used to only buy G1 or top end. I know play higher level due to seasons of promotions and that’s what I champion, it’s just my belief. Add in I know have a bigger mortgage, 2nd child and a family as opposed to have all free income to myself 6/7 years ago
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tushar sehgal

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #85 on: October 25, 2018, 04:46:53 PM »

Here is what I have learned over the years, some through here and some through friends and contacts in the bat making industry!!

1 - Cost of the clefts (G1-G4 to Vellum) are pretty close to each other, when you look at overall cost of materials for the product, from the suppliers. We all know volume discounts exist so more you buy the cheaper they are.

2 - Cost to manufacture a bat is/should be a constant (including wasted materials etc.), assuming consistent manufacturing process and overheads, for each manufacturer. I.e. some makers' cost is X per bat and others is Y. What I am trying to say is if I am good/consistent at making bats and it costs me $60 to make a bat, it would $60 for G1 and $60 for G2 and so on for all grades + raw material cost.

3 - Selling price of a bat is not relative to the cost of raw materials + manufacturing cost+profit. So if it cost you $100 to make a G4 bat and $120 to make a G1 and you sell G4 for $200 you are not going to sell G1 for $220/240 i.e. making the same profit amount or margins points. Reasoning for this? you can put a label on it...

What is the difference then? well i don't believe people when they say all pressing is the same or optimal for each cleft, lower grades fetch less money and generally, in asia, people with lower incomes buy these bats and expect them to last long so the pressing is hard, hence the performance difference...people with bigger budgets and less care for money will buy higher end bats for looks and performance so the makers can actually press the bat properly.

Grading only comes into play of a bat performing when there are a lot of knots in the willow other than that i think its simply cosmetic. If a batmaker was worth his/her salt and had a freedom to make a good bat with good performance without the fear of an ignorant customer, complaining about damage due to use or longevity of the  bat, they could make and press a bat in any grade that performed well. Only exception would be natural variance in the raw material where no matter how much attention you paid to the wood in making and pressing the bat some just would never be as good as others.
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Mattsky

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #86 on: October 25, 2018, 05:05:10 PM »

How can you make that case unless you test all grades for performance?

On the face of it, that's a fair comment.
But GM could equally say that their other grades perform too.
It's just that the OLEs are 'guaranteed 5-star performance.
Now the real question here I think is how do you define '5-star performance'?
With respect to GM, who know a thing or two about willow, if there's no scientific scale or definition of performance, it's just marketing fluff.
One for our resident GM maestro @Edward Lowy to throw some light onto, I think.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #87 on: October 25, 2018, 05:10:47 PM »


But GM could equally say that their other grades perform
One for our resident GM maestro @Edward Lowy to throw some light onto, I think.

Erm, he clearly said they graded on their assessment of performance?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 05:14:11 PM by Bats_Entertainment »
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Mattsky

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #88 on: October 25, 2018, 05:31:59 PM »

Erm, he clearly said they graded on their assessment of performance?

What, he said they test all of their bats and grade them on performance?
Can you point us to where he said that? Because it goes against their published grading system. Which is based on looks.
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billyb

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Re: Grading - the great mystery
« Reply #89 on: October 25, 2018, 05:46:54 PM »

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