Topic: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket (Read 10614 times)

six and out · « **Reply #30 on:** March 15, 2019, 03:39:25 PM »

Quote from: mo_town on March 15, 2019, 03:23:12 PM

One of the problems with sunday cricket in some cases is that it is not competitive and not as hard fought as Saturday league cricket. Competitive leagues are needed to revive Sunday cricket.

Not necessarily. It massively depends upon the club and league that is on offer. There is nothing worse for a Sunday player and colts to turn up to a Sunday league game and just get smashed for 300 or rolled for 50. That is just asking for lower participation.

It's the reason our Sunday side only play organised friendlies throughout the season. We play against sides we know are the right level, also both sides know the game can be used to develop their colts as well.

SLA · « **Reply #31 on:** March 15, 2019, 03:48:09 PM »

Quote from: six and out on March 15, 2019, 03:39:25 PM

Not necessarily. It massively depends upon the club and league that is on offer. There is nothing worse for a Sunday player and colts to turn up to a Sunday league game and just get smashed for 300 or rolled for 50. That is just asking for lower participation.

It's the reason our Sunday side only play organised friendlies throughout the season. We play against sides we know are the right level, also both sides know the game can be used to develop their colts as well.

There's nothing worse than turning up to a Sunday fixture thinking you're going to be playing a very friendly game where both sides have plenty of kids, only to find that your oppo have basically brought their entire league side who all want to smack 50s and bowl bouncers at 15 year olds. Total waste of time for everyone involved.

Quite often you even make this clear to the oppo when you organise the fixture... "very friendly, no league players, lots of kids", etc "yeah we'll do the same" they lie through their teeth.

I honestly sometimes think you'd have a more enjoyable cricket season if you just played the same 10 teams - teams you know well, who are about the right standard - you like the players, trust them do play in the right spirit - 4 times each.

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 15, 2019, 05:14:38 PM »

Quote from: mo_town on March 15, 2019, 03:23:12 PM

One of the problems with sunday cricket in some cases is that it is not competitive and not as hard fought as Saturday league cricket. Competitive leagues are needed to revive Sunday cricket.

There are Sunday competitive leagues.. they are dying out. Nothing less enjoyable than being slapped for 250+ on a Sunday when you�re giving kids or lesser players a game and the oppo want 50�s or worse.. 100�s .. only then to happily try and roll you for nothing as they�ve had their bat etc

That�s one of the things with 2020 Sunday, it�s not going to make anything more competitive as that�s why a lot of teams don�t join a league. Quite a few teams join a league purely for fixtures so even if they are in a league, you can assume they are not just using it as a friendly

Even on Saturdays people seem to forget that not everyone is taking it seriously or being overly competitive. Some people lierally just want an enjoyable game of cricket. Winning is a side effect but not the motivation. Competitive games aren�t automatically the enjoyable ones to play in.. it depends what your motivation for playing is

ppccopener · « **Reply #33 on:** March 15, 2019, 05:37:11 PM »

Quote from: SLA on March 15, 2019, 03:48:09 PM

There's nothing worse than turning up to a Sunday fixture thinking you're going to be playing a very friendly game where both sides have plenty of kids, only to find that your oppo have basically brought their entire league side who all want to smack 50s and bowl bouncers at 15 year olds. Total waste of time for everyone involved.

Quite often you even make this clear to the oppo when you organise the fixture... "very friendly, no league players, lots of kids", etc "yeah we'll do the same" they lie through their teeth.

I honestly sometimes think you'd have a more enjoyable cricket season if you just played the same 10 teams - teams you know well, who are about the right standard - you like the players, trust them do play in the right spirit - 4 times each.

You are describing traditional Sunday cricket, where they were played as friendly matches with teams you knew. Maybe you, definatley me and I'm sure other older members on here grew up playing these games, often the adults picked us up and took us home, had a beer with the opposition and it was an opportunity to play as we were often shoved up the order or given a bowl so we could get used to simply playing. I remember well these matches before I played league cricket, they were very social, tea between innings, 20 overs at 6.30 and batting out for a draw was a major achievement.

cricket has changed and that type of game perhaps is gone, Atherton is right in that now different formats appeal to different types of player. As has been mentioned thou how small clubs manage to keep everyone happy I do not know. Midweek 2020 at our club has become very popular as Sunday cricket has died completely.

The move to competitive cricket on Sunday's to me still leaves one big question which I have no answer for, and I'm not sure there is an answer....
Regarding small clubs specifically because I believe this is the real grass roots cricket, how do young players develop enough skills to improve and play a higher standard?

A pessimistic view, but maybe a correct one, might be there will be no more small club cricket going forward, and clubs will get swallowed up, merge or simply be taken over because of their facilities...

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 15, 2019, 05:40:49 PM »

Quote from: ppccopener on March 15, 2019, 05:37:11 PM

A pessimistic view, but maybe a correct one, might be there will be no more small club cricket going forward, and clubs will get swallowed up, merge or simply be taken over because of their facilities...

This is what is already happening ..

Richmond 11ths vs antsy 8ths (two random clubs) is well on its way

SD · « **Reply #35 on:** March 15, 2019, 05:44:01 PM »

I think it would be fair to say that some of the smaller clubs are suffering because junior players go to the bigger clubs who offer better coaching, better facilities and market themselves more effectively. The majority of clubs in this county who hsbrbsrruggled are the ones who haven't been able to keep a junior section going so don't have players coming through to replace those leaving the game.

I must say though that at my club we haven't found it difficult to bring junior players into Saturday league cricket. Our Saturday 3rd XI runs for this purpose and has definitely prepared then better for the step up to 2nd and 1st XI cricket

SLA · « **Reply #36 on:** March 15, 2019, 06:03:51 PM »

Quote from: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on March 15, 2019, 05:40:49 PM

This is what is already happening ..

Richmond 11ths vs antsy 8ths (two random clubs) is well on its way

Around here the big clubs are struggling and losing teams as fast as anyone else.

Tailendfielder · « **Reply #37 on:** March 15, 2019, 07:13:38 PM »

I think people have preferences but in reality id play cricket no matter the format as would most.

I sometimes think theres far too much league cricket. My rugby club dont stick second and third teams in a league structure, they play �friendlies�. Too be honest, it works well. Also allows you to be selective with fixtures. I think cricketers put off by promotion/regelation and �hard� cricket at the really low standards where it really is suppose to be fun. Taking a division 12 game against 40+ year olds and kids seriously is a little silly, at least to me.

I think that sometimes the �drop off in teenagers� is misleading. Few clubs local to me have 100 kids in some age groups. Most of them not really getting a game, is it a suprise they dont stick it out to senior cricket when they are just used as a cash cow?

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #38 on:** March 15, 2019, 07:31:57 PM »

Quote from: mo_town on March 15, 2019, 03:23:12 PM

One of the problems with sunday cricket in some cases is that it is not competitive and not as hard fought as Saturday league cricket. Competitive leagues are needed to revive Sunday cricket.

"Sly competitive" cricket, as it's sometimes known in my house.

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #39 on:** March 15, 2019, 07:37:55 PM »

And, "Yes mate, it does matter at this level."

SLA · « **Reply #40 on:** March 15, 2019, 07:56:45 PM »

Quote from: ppccopener on March 15, 2019, 05:37:11 PM

You are describing traditional Sunday cricket, where they were played as friendly matches with teams you knew. Maybe you, definatley me and I'm sure other older members on here grew up playing these games, often the adults picked us up and took us home, had a beer with the opposition and it was an opportunity to play as we were often shoved up the order or given a bowl so we could get used to simply playing. I remember well these matches before I played league cricket, they were very social, tea between innings, 20 overs at 6.30 and batting out for a draw was a major achievement.

cricket has changed and that type of game perhaps is gone, Atherton is right in that now different formats appeal to different types of player. As has been mentioned thou how small clubs manage to keep everyone happy I do not know. Midweek 2020 at our club has become very popular as Sunday cricket has died completely.

The move to competitive cricket on Sunday's to me still leaves one big question which I have no answer for, and I'm not sure there is an answer....
Regarding small clubs specifically because I believe this is the real grass roots cricket, how do young players develop enough skills to improve and play a higher standard?

A pessimistic view, but maybe a correct one, might be there will be no more small club cricket going forward, and clubs will get swallowed up, merge or simply be taken over because of their facilities...

One of the problems we find in lower level league cricket, is opposition that are only interested in winning and getting league points rather than simply playing cricket.

So they either turn up with a strong team and play in a po faced over competitive manner, or if they're missing their best players, they simply refuse to play rather than risk losing.

This to me is an appalling attitude.

At least with opposition you can select, you can generally negotiate with them in good faith about keeping the teams even and lending players if necessary, so at least a game gets played.

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #41 on:** March 15, 2019, 08:53:46 PM »

Quote from: SLA on March 15, 2019, 07:56:45 PM

One of the problems we find in lower level league cricket, is opposition that are only interested in winning and getting league points rather than simply playing cricket.

So they either turn up with a strong team and play in a po faced over competitive manner, or if they're missing their best players, they simply refuse to play rather than risk losing.

This to me is an appalling attitude.

At least with opposition you can select, you can generally negotiate with them in good faith about keeping the teams even and lending players if necessary, so at least a game gets played.

But I also agree with this! Confused.

rubbish_batsman · « **Reply #42 on:** April 07, 2019, 03:13:03 PM »

my club only play sunday friendlies, and to make sure everyone got a game we looked at changing our usual 35 over format. We trialled it with another local club. The feedback was very positive, and it turned out the two matches we played were highly competitive.

-we split 36 overs into two innings of 18 each.
-the team order had to be declared, because the batting order had to be reversed in the 2nd innings
-batsmen retired at 25, but were able to come back in if need be
-everyone bar the keeper had to bowl, maximum of 2 overs each
-the leading team started the second innings to set the target

they have been the most enjoyable games ive played for ages. Most importantly, everyone contributed and had a part to play.

However, most clubs we play in mid Wiltshire dont want to play this format., no doubt for various reasons.

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #43 on:** April 07, 2019, 03:55:59 PM »

Quote from: rubbish_batsman on April 07, 2019, 03:13:03 PM

my club only play sunday friendlies, and to make sure everyone got a game we looked at changing our usual 35 over format. We trialled it with another local club. The feedback was very positive, and it turned out the two matches we played were highly competitive.

-we split 36 overs into two innings of 18 each.
-the team order had to be declared, because the batting order had to be reversed in the 2nd innings
-batsmen retired at 25, but were able to come back in if need be
-everyone bar the keeper had to bowl, maximum of 2 overs each
-the leading team started the second innings to set the target

they have been the most enjoyable games ive played for ages. Most importantly, everyone contributed and had a part to play.

However, most clubs we play in mid Wiltshire dont want to play this format., no doubt for various reasons.

If you�re into 2020 style games then this is a good way to ensure that at least everyone gets a game. This isn�t going to teach anyone to do much other than hit though as it�s all about wacking runs quickly.

There is no answer as we have x number of people and each one wants something from a game. I still say a league structure needs all the various formats to ensure you get the mix of styles and all round teams. If you jut play 2020 you will lose some skills, if you only play draw.. you will lose some hitting skills as you can�t have 7 hitters in a side and hope to win .

Etc etc

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #44 on:** April 07, 2019, 03:59:28 PM »

We have a pre season friendly next Sunday. We will have a weak side so I�ve contacted the oppo to give them a heads up. All I get back is �we have first teasers and they will want the runs so expect to get smashed�

I�m not entirely sure what they will gain from it but as people have said below.. common sense seems to be severely lacking in the modern game. People just want to slap it about and slaughter oppos

Author Topic: Mike Atherton The Times article on Club Cricket (Read 10614 times)

six and out

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