Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
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Author Topic: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?  (Read 10795 times)

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Buzz

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2019, 07:48:09 PM »
Genuinely I have watched a lot of Flintoff play, I was at lords when he dismantled the prime saffa attack with his woodworm and it snapped.
I watched masses of the 2005 ashes.
Flintoff was a gun player.

But stokes is just better.
He scores more hundreds, fields better and has taken more five fors.
Both in their prime. I am picking Stokes.
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NT50

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2019, 08:33:59 PM »
Quote from: JB on May 31, 2019, 07:07:45 PM
Trouble is you only remember the best spells and batting performances of Freddie as it happened a good few years ago. With stokes being current you base it on how he’s playing at present or recently.

@Buzz’s logic of basing it on the stats is the only way to compare without looking back purely on fond memories

Massively agree with this bit. I think people look back with rose-tinted glasses a lot in sport hence why a lot of the older generation harp on about how things were 'better back in my day,' and hence talk nonsense about how the West Indies/Aussies of the 70's/80's bowled at 100mph and no batsman ever played a bad shot.

 I think it's why people won't fully appreciate current players until they're long retired. Aka Smith/Kohli will be talked of as genuine greats.
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Tailendfielder

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2019, 09:16:18 PM »
Id pick Flintoff
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KettonJake

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2019, 12:02:45 AM »
Quote from: Buzz on May 31, 2019, 07:48:09 PM
Genuinely I have watched a lot of Flintoff play, I was at lords when he dismantled the prime saffa attack with his woodworm and it snapped.
I watched masses of the 2005 ashes.
Flintoff was a gun player.

But stokes is just better.
He scores more hundreds, fields better and has taken more five fors.
Both in their prime. I am picking Stokes.

I’d never chuck stokes the new ball with Langer and Hayden opening up and Ricky P at 3. Fred every time.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 12:10:59 AM by KettonJake »
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Yorkershire

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2019, 06:06:38 AM »
As much as I like Flintoff.. I think Stokes is a better player and also applies himself in a much better way as a professional.
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Buzz

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2019, 07:22:00 AM »
Quote from: KettonJake on June 01, 2019, 12:02:45 AM
I’d never chuck stokes the new ball with Langer and Hayden opening up and Ricky P at 3. Fred every time.
On the flip side, Stokes cleans up the tail better than Flintoff could...

And previously Flintoff got to bowl at Langer, Hayden etc with the second new ball, not the first...! 😂😂😂😂
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Manormanic

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2019, 05:52:20 PM »
It's also tricky when one - Flintoff - had such a short window of fitness. That said, for me the Freddie of 2003 through 2007 was probably the greatest of the three England all rounders. His bowling was intense, and those long spells meant that batsmen never got respite, whilst his batting was decent enough.
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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2019, 04:37:44 PM »
Botham
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joeljonno

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2019, 07:47:10 PM »
Quote from: Buzz on May 31, 2019, 07:24:08 AM
Stokes. Better batsman, better fielder and takes more wockets bowling.
If you look at the stats, it isn't even close.

Let's look at the stats..

Test Batting
AF - 31.78
BS - 33.89

Test Bowling
AF - 32.79
BS - 31.92

That is very close in my opinion. Stokes a very small advantage, but I'd look at other stuff as well, such as economy rate to really break it down more.

ODI batting
AF - 32.02
BS - 39.36

ODI bowling
AF - 24.38
BS - 41.43

Stokes ahead on the batting, but Flintoff a lot better bowling average.

If you take everything into consideration, and could have one for all formats, it's a very difficult choice. I would go with Flintoff on personality, but statistically it's very hard to split them.

Statistically, Woakes isn't far away from them either
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 07:49:25 PM by joeljonno »
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alexhilly1492

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2019, 08:03:29 PM »
Which stokes though? Pre or post Bristol?

Bowling pre batting post for me
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Cholrudee

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2019, 10:24:52 AM »
Stokes  :D
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Mfarank

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2019, 11:14:29 AM »
I think Stokes just answered that for you yesterday
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Gurujames

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2019, 12:13:38 PM »
Flintoff. Had England lost yesterday (which they would have except for a freak overthrow incident), I would have blamed Stokes for not scoring quickly enough. I know the bowling was good and pitch tough, but I feel he could have played better off of his legs and pushed a few more gaps.
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smilley792

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2019, 12:23:51 PM »
Quote from: Gurujames on July 15, 2019, 12:13:38 PM
Flintoff. Had England lost yesterday (which they would have except for a freak overthrow incident), I would have blamed Stokes for not scoring quickly enough. I know the bowling was good and pitch tough, but I feel he could have played better off of his legs and pushed a few more gaps.

How many Scores you chased down for a World Cup while your team mates crumble around you?
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WalkingWicket37

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Re: Ben Stokes or Flintoff?
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2019, 01:06:44 PM »
Quote from: Gurujames on July 15, 2019, 12:13:38 PM
Flintoff. Had England lost yesterday (which they would have except for a freak overthrow incident), I would have blamed Stokes for not scoring quickly enough. I know the bowling was good and pitch tough, but I feel he could have played better off of his legs and pushed a few more gaps.

So needing 7 off 2 instead of 3 off 2 you think Stokes would have played the same shots?

So many idiotic comments about what did or didn't win England the game. Let's face it, we're into the realms of "what if" to which nobody can be sure of the answer!
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