Topic: Keeley cricket and the industry generally (Read 22755 times)

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #45 on:** May 26, 2020, 08:27:07 AM »

Quote from: Mfarank on May 26, 2020, 08:18:51 AM

For the 3rd time...

I don't think you understand what you're actually achieving by posting that.

All of GMs bats for years have been advertised as DXM technology which is their CNC process. There are YouTube videos of GM making bats on a CNC. That's pretty transparent if you ask me.

As is this Instagram post:

Then if you actually read my post you'd realise that I am asking for transparency to know as a consumer how my bat is made.

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #46 on:** May 26, 2020, 08:32:32 AM »

Quote from: Canners on May 26, 2020, 08:23:30 AM

I am very glad some of the more established forum members have stepped in and spoken sense to this thread.

@Tom�s comment about the industry right now was spot on and it could really be just left there, however

A few points For me

If a business wants to apply a certain pricing strategy/business model. That is totally up to them and I wish them every luck. If you dont like it simply i wouldn�t Waste any time thinking about it let alone take time complaining about it on a forum...

I think it�s crazy and quite disrespectful for people to question their bat making ability. I have gone off Tk bats in the past and moved onto another maker who I found out subsequently tried to charge me �100 more for the exact same cleft as they offered to someone else. Did I write a post about it, no I just will never spend another penny with said brand. I have since moved back to TK bats and the quality of said bats is second to none.

If you also look at the pricing �650 for a top pro keeley isn�t that bad, providing you aren�t the average forum member who thinks a pro bat fit for kohli should cost �100ish. GM so called players editions are �650ish and I personally would choose a keeley every time out of the 2. What about a GN Legend �1000 for an Indian made stock bat. Not that I have anything against Indian made bats, I am probably one of the odd ones out on this forum as some of the Indian bats I have or seen personally I think are as good as anything out there.

Ok so onto the actual bats, TK�s are the best mass made bats within the UK no question and still a fair amount of skilled work is done by hand. I have had a completely hand made bat by Tim, well a hand operated machine cut the shoulders and a press pressed it but apart from that he made it completely... or is that not completely handmade...... now I�m confused 🤣🤣 should I be demanding a refund. I have also had many part cnc�d bats and has there been a difference in performance or quality. Absolutely not. The thing to also remember is willow is a natural product and you will get some variance. I have had one disappointing Tk bat and it was a black cat voodoo that weighed in at 2.5, so in hindsight would any 2.5 finished bat be that great..... since then I have had around 10-15 tk guns

Technology moves on and like Tom M said to make bats at the volume they do would be crazy to not use a cnc to spit out a rough template. No means is the bat finished there still plenty of hard and skilled work is needed.

Anyways have a great day everyone

@Canners
Mike you know full well that I have no problem paying for the right bat, but, with that said this is a public forum that is designed for people to voice their opinions, the fact that you have chosen to not do so is your choice.

I also chose keeley as they are the ones that have been the biggest culprits of trying to profiteer from this pandemic.

I could sit here and list multiple brands that I have a problem with and therefore wouldn't buy from but that would be a rather boring thread.

I think it's pretty disgusting that they are trying to charge 300 quid more to the general public on their Instagram than they have offered to other people.

buddyb · « **Reply #47 on:** May 26, 2020, 08:39:13 AM »

Quote from: LEACHY48 on May 26, 2020, 08:16:10 AM

I think everyone is missing my point.

I have absolutely no problem with machinery and technology as a method of producing more bats. The caveat is that I want that to be advertised. GM and B3 both advertise it, you have put up Instagram videos of the CNC in action, I just find it morally wrong to advertise bats as handmade and not publicise the fact you are using a CNC in the process.

The pricing is entirely their prerogative, but I still think its distasteful to advertise something as a 'Covid sale' and then charge 650.

I don't think anyone has a problem with technology being used to speed up the process, my issue is the transparency.

The point you are missing leechy is that if the bat isn�t a completely cncd shapes (b3 and gm is more like 90+% Finished Then yes it should be mentioned) then why would I/they declare it?

Mine are probably 75% refined but there�s still a lot of work to be done. I still shape every bats profile, shape the backs so they are full or concaved, adjust the balance and pick up on them, shape the handle etc

If that�s still not handmade then I have completely misunderstood the whole meaning of it.

But GM are stating since. They are aren�t saying that bat actual bat is completely handmade.

Psi · « **Reply #48 on:** May 26, 2020, 08:39:47 AM »

I think the point is that the naive buyer would assume it was mostly hand made from that label. Not everyone would go searching for more information on their posts

six and out · « **Reply #49 on:** May 26, 2020, 08:41:54 AM »

Can I ask a genuine question to the bat makers/manufacturers/sponsors on the forum.

If Keeley/M&H (or whoever) are charging �650 for there very highest bat and you are charging say �300 quid less, is the difference the quality of willow they have had the pick of or the price they are putting their brand name on? Or both? Etc...

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #50 on:** May 26, 2020, 08:44:24 AM »

Quote from: buddyb on May 26, 2020, 08:39:13 AM

The point you are missing leechy is that if the bat isn�t a completely cncd shapes (b3 and gm is more like 90+% Finished Then yes it should be mentioned) then why would I/they declare it?

Mine are probably 75% refined but there�s still a lot of work to be done. I still shape every bats profile, shape the backs so they are full or concaved, adjust the balance and pick up on them, shape the handle etc

If that�s still not handmade then I have completely misunderstood the whole meaning of it.

But GM are stating since. They are aren�t saying that bat actual bat is completely handmade.

Because its important for the consumer to know, I don't think there are many industries where you can hide a massive part of your manufacturing process.

Also you have mentioned it, on Instagram very openly, so I don't really understand why it's an issue for you?

All I'm asking for is transparency, and if everyone thinks that's wrong, then clearly we all just have different standards.

I think that if a CNC is used for the bulk of the work and the bat is hand finished that is an important distinction to make.

edge · « **Reply #51 on:** May 26, 2020, 08:55:11 AM »

Quote from: LEACHY48 on May 26, 2020, 08:44:24 AM

I think that if a CNC is used for the bulk of the work and the bat is hand finished that is an important distinction to make.

Why? Is a batmaker who uses a CNC/copy lathe/bandsaw as part of their process somehow inferior to one who starts with half a tree and uses only a drawknife?

buddyb · « **Reply #52 on:** May 26, 2020, 08:56:07 AM »

Quote from: six and out on May 26, 2020, 08:41:54 AM

Can I ask a genuine question to the bat makers/manufacturers/sponsors on the forum.

If Keeley/M&H (or whoever) are charging �650 for there very highest bat and you are charging say �300 quid less, is the difference the quality of willow they have had the pick of or the price they are putting their brand name on? Or both? Etc...

You are paying for that brands name. All willow growers are essentially roughly the same price per cleft. But there�s lots of other things to factor in.

Overheads, (staff, rent etc)
Sponsored players (need to make that money back somewhere if they are being paid, who else do you think pays for their kit)
Material costs
Profits (they are a business after all)

Mine are cheaper because my overheads aren�t huge, I don�t pay sponsored players. I don�t have the brand reputation so I can�t warrant a high price, but I make enough to live off put food on the table, but I won�t be a millionaire

Should brands be pushing sales during the pandemic, that�s the real question here. Personally, I haven�t because it might seem desperate and devalue my brands morals, in a time when there�s uncertainty around jobs and pay. Do I blame them... no because they still need a cash flow coming in to pay for everything. Do you think a pro won�t take there couple of k sponsorship money because of the pandemic... absolutely not.

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #53 on:** May 26, 2020, 08:57:05 AM »

Quote from: edge on May 26, 2020, 08:55:11 AM

Why?

I think you know the argument I'm making and you are deliberately presenting a farcical situation.

At no stage have I said it is inferior, I as a consumer just think there should be transparency. I don't understand how more people aren't agreeing that transparency should be at the forefront of the cricket industry.

Because as psi said, a naive buyer would assume the bat is completely handmade from start to finish (excluding to facetious bandsaw argument) and I think transparency in manufacturing is important.

edge · « **Reply #54 on:** May 26, 2020, 08:59:24 AM »

Quote from: LEACHY48 on May 26, 2020, 08:57:05 AM

Because as psi said, a naive buyer would assume the bat is completely handmade from start to finish (excluding to facetious bandsaw argument) and I think transparency in manufacturing is important.

No mate, I mean why is it important? Dropping the B3 type approach out, why is it important to know whether your batmaker has used a CNC to speed things up or if they just went at a raw cleft with hand tools? The bandsaw thing isnt facetious, I'm just using it to illustrate the point that noone makes fully by hand.

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #55 on:** May 26, 2020, 09:00:34 AM »

Quote from: edge on May 26, 2020, 08:59:24 AM

No mate, I mean why is it important? Dropping the B3 type approach out, why is it important to know whether your batmaker has used a CNC to speed things up or if they just went at a raw cleft with hand tools?

I really don't understand why people think transparency is not important.

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #56 on:** May 26, 2020, 09:01:22 AM »

Quote from: edge on May 26, 2020, 08:59:24 AM

No mate, I mean why is it important? Dropping the B3 type approach out, why is it important to know whether your batmaker has used a CNC to speed things up or if they just went at a raw cleft with hand tools? The bandsaw thing isnt facetious, I'm just using it to illustrate the point that noone makes fully by hand.

A bandsaw is necessary for accuracy and quality control. A CNC isn't. That's why the argument is facetious and farcical.

Ayrtek Cricket · « **Reply #57 on:** May 26, 2020, 09:05:36 AM »

Quote from: LEACHY48 on May 26, 2020, 09:01:22 AM

A bandsaw is necessary for accuracy and quality control. A CNC isn't. That's why the argument is facetious and farcical.

Id think about that statement again, the very nature of the CNC is to allow quality control and repetition due to its accuracy.

Buzz · « **Reply #58 on:** May 26, 2020, 09:07:08 AM »

This is a bit of an odd thread.

Batmakers have the right to charge what they think their products are worth.

Customers can either pay the money or buy a bat with different shiny stickers.

In this world of technology and high labour costs, of course most batmakers will use machinery. I mean who would use an hand saw over a chain saw etc.

Could some batmakers be clearer about where their bats came from and how they are made, probably.

None of these are new complaints.

What I would say is we need more willow trees planted...!

I wouldn't want to be a cricket retailer at the best of times, it must be impossible right now.

All I can say is, the sun is out go and book a net with a mate and hit some balls.

Sivlar13 · « **Reply #59 on:** May 26, 2020, 09:07:27 AM »

Author Topic: Keeley cricket and the industry generally (Read 22755 times)

LEACHY48

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

LEACHY48

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

buddyb

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

Psi

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

six and out

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

LEACHY48

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

edge

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

buddyb

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

LEACHY48

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

edge

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

LEACHY48

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

LEACHY48

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

Ayrtek Cricket

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

Buzz

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

Sivlar13

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally