Topic: England v Sri lanka (Read 45328 times)

edge · « **Reply #300 on:** January 19, 2021, 09:22:16 PM »

Quote from: Manormanic on January 19, 2021, 05:24:04 PM

I think Watson is a bad example here, sorry - he had a technical issue that was the same throughout his entire career. Bairstow is a different beast - his issue is/has been (TBC) actually as much mental as it is technical, and is not even really about his defensive technique. The issue has been that in becoming the white ball player that he has, his mindset moved and he lost the selectivity as to which ball to attack and which to defend, and what you ended up seeing a lot in 2019 was him playing a full blooded drive to a ball that he would previously have checked out into the offside - a problem exacerbated by his having moved to the leg side by a whole stump.

He did a lot of work on it last Summer, and made a couple of good contributions on paper in FC cricket for Yorkshire. That said, he looked bloody awful even when making the best part of a ton (and I say that as a confirmed advocate). He has looked better since - both his defensive technique in the white ball stuff, and here. It will only really be stress tested when he gets back to English conditions, I suspect.

Bairstow's problems are very much technical - it's all in the backlift. He starts with high hands, which is fine, but then drops them. As the bowler releases his hands are actually on the way down, and tend to float out towards gully. Weirdly it's the reverse of what most would consider best practice! Attacking the ball it's not so much of a problem as he picks the bat up again to play the bigger shot, but in defence against seam it leaves him poking at the ball and struggling to bring the bat back in line - hence getting bowled aiming for mid on a lot. Look back to footage of his best years and the bat never gets out wide towards gully, although there aren't many highlight clips of him playing solid forward defences obviously. Vs spin, footwork is more important and drags the bat into line on the front foot, so his game against the slow bowlers isn't affected in the same way. His attempt to counter mostly seems to be to get further across the stumps rather than sort his swing out.

six and out · « **Reply #301 on:** January 19, 2021, 09:53:40 PM »

Quote from: ppccopener on January 19, 2021, 09:15:12 PM

Agree I think the planning I read on line is Butler is schedule to miss the last 2 India tests(the away tour) and Foakes will play when he is rested.So just in when Butler is missing.

I don't get this 2 squads thing some people have been talking about, must admit I have not seen it.

So Jos is then not going to play the T20i's and ODI's afterwards with the WC coming up? Or are they saying he's just going to stay out in the bubble in India and just not play the last 2 tests and rest?

Manormanic · « **Reply #302 on:** January 19, 2021, 09:56:56 PM »

Quote from: edge on January 19, 2021, 09:22:16 PM

Bairstow's problems are very much technical - it's all in the backlift. He starts with high hands, which is fine, but then drops them. As the bowler releases his hands are actually on the way down, and tend to float out towards gully.

You read Steve James' piece in the Times today 😉 You see that as a technical issue, I see it as the manifestation of a mindset. Either way, interesting to see if he has resolved the issues.

LEACHY48 · « **Reply #303 on:** January 19, 2021, 10:44:21 PM »

Quote from: edge on January 19, 2021, 09:22:16 PM

Bairstow's problems are very much technical - it's all in the backlift. He starts with high hands, which is fine, but then drops them. As the bowler releases his hands are actually on the way down, and tend to float out towards gully. Weirdly it's the reverse of what most would consider best practice! Attacking the ball it's not so much of a problem as he picks the bat up again to play the bigger shot, but in defence against seam it leaves him poking at the ball and struggling to bring the bat back in line - hence getting bowled aiming for mid on a lot. Look back to footage of his best years and the bat never gets out wide towards gully, although there aren't many highlight clips of him playing solid forward defences obviously. Vs spin, footwork is more important and drags the bat into line on the front foot, so his game against the slow bowlers isn't affected in the same way. His attempt to counter mostly seems to be to get further across the stumps rather than sort his swing out.

Couldn�t agree more, Root Buttler and Bairstow all do this to varying extents and it�s why they have struggled for the last 2 years on and off.

When attacking, they all unweight the bat and can score 360 because of it. When defending their hands are almost rooted to their back hip and there is minimal, if any, backswing. This results in hard hands and pushing at the ball and subsequently getting bowled or nicking off a lot.

Root started again to at least get some back swing going in defence against seam in his last innings and low and behold he made one hell of a double ton.

billyb · « **Reply #304 on:** January 19, 2021, 11:07:06 PM »

Personally, I think the reason Bairstow's place in the side is such an enduring debate is due to his annus mirabilis in 2016. He scored 1470(!) test runs that year, together with 70 dismissals as keeper - a truly extraordinary, unprecedented feat. He was one of five Wisden Cricketers of the year in 2016.

At his best then, Bairstow is probably England's best player.. but we haven't seen him at his best in Tests since then. I think we all expected him to kick on and become England's second best batsman after Root, to average over 40, and to be an established senior player.

Instead, he became a ODI/T20 machine, and won the world cup. His test results suffered. The romantic in me though thinks that Bairstow still has so much more to give this test side, and an in-form Root & Bairstow would be an incredible spine to this inexperienced batting line-up. If Buttler didn't exist, we might not even be having this conversation, because he wouldn't have had the pressure on his place.

I want 2016 Bairstow back, and I want him to smash it.

Jimbo · « **Reply #305 on:** January 19, 2021, 11:45:00 PM »

Even at his best I don't think Bairstow is a better player than Root or Stokes.

billyb · « **Reply #306 on:** January 19, 2021, 11:58:26 PM »

I just checked the stats. In 2016, Bairstow averaged 58.8 . Root averaged 49.2 . Bairstow was keeping too!

Obviously that is no longer the case, but after that year I think the hope was that Root, Stokes and Bairstow would be this amazing core of the side, but Bairstow has underperformed.

If he recaptures anything near his 2016 form though, he has to be in the side. He's a serious player.

cricketbadger · « **Reply #307 on:** January 20, 2021, 12:10:25 AM »

Quote from: billyb on January 19, 2021, 11:07:06 PM

Personally, I think the reason Bairstow's place in the side is such an enduring debate is due to his annus mirabilis in 2016. He scored 1470(!) test runs that year, together with 70 dismissals as keeper - a truly extraordinary, unprecedented feat. He was one of five Wisden Cricketers of the year in 2016.

At his best then, Bairstow is probably England's best player.. but we haven't seen him at his best in Tests since then. I think we all expected him to kick on and become England's second best batsman after Root, to average over 40, and to be an established senior player.

Instead, he became a ODI/T20 machine, and won the world cup. His test results suffered. The romantic in me though thinks that Bairstow still has so much more to give this test side, and an in-form Root & Bairstow would be an incredible spine to this inexperienced batting line-up. If Buttler didn't exist, we might not even be having this conversation, because he wouldn't have had the pressure on his place.

I want 2016 Bairstow back, and I want him to smash it.

Great Post couldn't agree more, shame it hasn't quite worked out that way but still time for a few years of success and good form. Type of player I think England need, passionate and gritty despite his flaws, goes away and works hard to improve and earn his spot

edge · « **Reply #308 on:** January 20, 2021, 08:07:20 AM »

Quote from: Manormanic on January 19, 2021, 09:56:56 PM

You read Steve James' piece in the Times today 😉 You see that as a technical issue, I see it as the manifestation of a mindset. Either way, interesting to see if he has resolved the issues.

Haha I did as it happens, first time I've seen anyone in the media pick up on it! Gio Colussi flagged the problem up a long time ago though so he can have the credit rather than James. Imagine he'll score some runs in SL and India but then struggle again back in England, particularly if he stays at 3. The new Keaton Jennings?

edge · « **Reply #309 on:** January 21, 2021, 10:49:49 AM »

Jimmy in for Broad, team otherwise the same. A little surprised they've signed Wood up for another flogging!

rickjames · « **Reply #310 on:** January 21, 2021, 11:01:10 AM »

Asking Wood to play back to back seems a bit much when they've got an ideal like for like player in Stone

ppccopener · « **Reply #311 on:** January 21, 2021, 11:18:22 AM »

I would of had Broad in, if they want to rotate he doesn't play one dayers so will have a break before the India series.
Wood plays both formats, I would of changed him for Stone as you would think Wood will tour India I both formats.

Still think we have one too many seamers with Curran in the team, I guess without Moeen they don't want a non batting spinner in so Root may bowl a few overs again

Rez · « **Reply #312 on:** January 21, 2021, 11:29:10 AM »

Quote from: billyb on January 19, 2021, 11:07:06 PM

Personally, I think the reason Bairstow's place in the side is such an enduring debate is due to his annus mirabilis in 2016. He scored 1470(!) test runs that year, together with 70 dismissals as keeper - a truly extraordinary, unprecedented feat. He was one of five Wisden Cricketers of the year in 2016.

At his best then, Bairstow is probably England's best player.. but we haven't seen him at his best in Tests since then. I think we all expected him to kick on and become England's second best batsman after Root, to average over 40, and to be an established senior player.

Instead, he became a ODI/T20 machine, and won the world cup. His test results suffered. The romantic in me though thinks that Bairstow still has so much more to give this test side, and an in-form Root & Bairstow would be an incredible spine to this inexperienced batting line-up. If Buttler didn't exist, we might not even be having this conversation, because he wouldn't have had the pressure on his place.

I want 2016 Bairstow back, and I want him to smash it.

I'm a big Bairstow fan and whilst i can understand some of the flack he often gets from most of my club mates, a lot of it I just don't get. So much of the debate got caught up on the gloves and took away from the fact that he is a proven world class test batsman. Personally, I think he still has plenty to offer in all formats and would also love to see him back at his best.

Byo · « **Reply #313 on:** January 21, 2021, 11:50:44 AM »

Quote from: Rez on January 21, 2021, 11:29:10 AM

I'm a big Bairstow fan and whilst i can understand some of the flack he often gets from most of my club mates, a lot of it I just don't get. So much of the debate got caught up on the gloves and took away from the fact that he is a proven world class test batsman. Personally, I think he still has plenty to offer in all formats and would also love to see him back at his best.

He isn't a proven world class test batsman though, averaging mid 30s is average at best!!! Clearly has technical deficiencies as gets out the same way too often.

Jimbo · « **Reply #314 on:** January 21, 2021, 12:53:25 PM »

Quote from: Byo on January 21, 2021, 11:50:44 AM

He isn't a proven world class test batsman though, averaging mid 30s is average at best!!! Clearly has technical deficiencies as gets out the same way too often.

It's the fact he keeps getting out the same way in conditions that are helpful to seam/swing bowling.

Every top tier test side has at least two top quality pace bowlers who have the skill to hit the stumps at pace and with movement. Bairstow keeps getting out to that type of bowling so until he can go away and demonstrate a method to defend against this bowling, I just don't see how he's a feasible selection in Aus, NZ, England or SA.

Author Topic: England v Sri lanka (Read 45328 times)

edge

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six and out

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Manormanic

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LEACHY48

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billyb

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Jimbo

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billyb

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cricketbadger

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edge

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edge

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rickjames

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ppccopener

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Rez

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Byo

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Jimbo

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