ENG vs IND series
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #120 on: February 04, 2021, 02:46:07 PM »
Quote from: Jimbo on February 04, 2021, 02:42:14 PM
No idea where you're getting this "social class" thing from.


The England cricket team isn't absolutely crammed with public schoolboys then?
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #121 on: February 04, 2021, 03:02:48 PM »
Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 04, 2021, 02:46:07 PM
The England cricket team isn't absolutely crammed with public schoolboys then?

Nobody is denying that, but you haven't given any reasoning why you think that would effect where Lawrence and Pope are placed in the batting order or why that decision wouldn't be based on Pope's long injury layoff?
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #122 on: February 04, 2021, 03:12:49 PM »
Worth adding that even a cursory bit of research suggests that Dan Lawrence went to an 'oustanding' rated, Catholic high school in a pretty well off area. Not sure the 'social class picks the batting order' narrative stands up to much scrutiny.
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alba caerulea

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #123 on: February 04, 2021, 04:03:34 PM »
I dont think the lay off should even come into it. Is it easier to bat at 6 than 3 in India? Debatable.

Pick the best team. Simple.

If popes not ready to play in any position then he shouldn't be in the squad. I personally would have Lawrence at 3 but simply because thats the only spot that needs filling in my 11. If Crawley was fit Lawrence would be carrying drinks

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rickjames

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #124 on: February 04, 2021, 04:10:16 PM »
Apparently the rights for the four tests come to around £7m. Seems like nothing, no? Curious to see how the bidding war for the Ashes goes, what with Amazon apparently being interested...
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #125 on: February 04, 2021, 04:41:43 PM »
Quote from: rickjames on February 04, 2021, 04:10:16 PM
Apparently the rights for the four tests come to around £7m. Seems like nothing, no? Curious to see how the bidding war for the Ashes goes, what with Amazon apparently being interested...

Maybe something to do with the 4am starts UK time? Not as valuable a slot for advertising purposes you'd imagine.
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SurreySam

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #126 on: February 04, 2021, 04:57:32 PM »
Simple. Root should put his big boy pants on and step up to fill #3, then Pope and Lawrence can play thumb wars to decide upon who goes #4 and #6.

What bowling attack to pick, is the harder consideration. The pitch on offer will dictate that I think.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #127 on: February 04, 2021, 05:49:56 PM »
Quote from: Jimbo on February 04, 2021, 03:12:49 PM
Worth adding that even a cursory bit of research suggests that Dan Lawrence went to an 'oustanding' rated, Catholic high school in a pretty well off area. Not sure the 'social class picks the batting order' narrative stands up to much scrutiny.

It absolutely does in this regard.  100%. Trust me.

Lawrence is not a public schoolboy. The original comment was a  little tongue-in-cheek. But no-one has spoken of shielding him in the way they have spoken of shielding Pope.

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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #128 on: February 04, 2021, 06:12:49 PM »
Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 04, 2021, 05:49:56 PM
It absolutely does in this regard.  100%. Trust me.

Lawrence is not a public schoolboy. The original comment was a  little tongue-in-cheek. But no-one has spoken of shielding him in the way they have spoken of shielding Pope.

Maybe not that you've seen but it has absolutely been spoken about. "It does, trust me" isn't much of an argument. If you want to talk about opportunities to play professional cricket for kids at independent schools then that's a whole different question but I've seen nothing to suggest that Lawrence is somehow less valued by the England management because he didn't go to a fee paying school. Happy to be proven wrong if you can present some evidence.

On that note, if there was no intent to protect Lawrence on entry to test cricket then why did he bat at 5 in SL and not switch places with Bairstow?
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alba caerulea

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #129 on: February 04, 2021, 06:20:50 PM »
Bairstow did score a ton from 3 on the previous Tour?
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rickjames

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #130 on: February 04, 2021, 06:33:17 PM »
In 2018? Yes. He was quite mad about it.
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Jimbo

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #131 on: February 04, 2021, 06:36:56 PM »
Quote from: alba caerulea on February 04, 2021, 06:20:50 PM
Bairstow did score a ton from 3 on the previous Tour?

That's true, but if Lawrence was being thrown under the bus then it would have been very easy to bat him up the order against Embuldeniya in the second test. I think it's quite clear that they rate him as a prospect and recognise his long term potential.
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LEACHY48

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #132 on: February 04, 2021, 06:45:01 PM »
Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 04, 2021, 05:49:56 PM
It absolutely does in this regard.  100%. Trust me.

Lawrence is not a public schoolboy. The original comment was a  little tongue-in-cheek. But no-one has spoken of shielding him in the way they have spoken of shielding Pope.

Ever heard of Hitchens’ Razor? “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence”.

“Trust me” holds about as much water as a colander. Our two most shielded players (Stokes and Root) attended academy status schools - not fee paying.

Lawrence has been shielded, he went on several lions tours before converting to the first team, and then batted in his usual position rather than be shoe-horned in (ironically like Pope was when made to bat 3).

As Others have said, you’ve not presented a shred of evidence that the batting order is “based on class”, so as such this claim can be dismissed out of hand 🤷‍♂️
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #133 on: February 04, 2021, 06:50:58 PM »
Quote from: Jimbo on February 04, 2021, 06:12:49 PM
Maybe not that you've seen but it has absolutely been spoken about. "It does, trust me" isn't much of an argument. If you want to talk about opportunities to play professional cricket for kids at independent schools then that's a whole different question but I've seen nothing to suggest that Lawrence is somehow less valued by the England management because he didn't go to a fee paying school. Happy to be proven wrong if you can present some evidence.

On that note, if there was no intent to protect Lawrence on entry to test cricket then why did he bat at 5 in SL and not switch places with Bairstow?

It would be inappropriate for me to use knowledge gleaned in the context of personal relationships. Hence "it does, trust me".

Like I said, the comment was tongue-in-cheek. Which is to say there are not serious underlying issues in relation to lack of opportunity for working-class kids.
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otit

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #134 on: February 04, 2021, 06:54:55 PM »
Quote from: LEACHY48 on February 04, 2021, 06:45:01 PM
Ever heard of Hitchens’ Razor? “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence”.

“Trust me” holds about as much water as a colander. Our two most shielded players (Stokes and Root) attended academy status schools - not fee paying.

Lawrence has been shielded, he went on several lions tours before converting to the first team, and then batted in his usual position rather than be shoe-horned in (ironically like Pope was when made to bat 3).

As Others have said, you’ve not presented a shred of evidence that the batting order is “based on class”, so as such this claim can be dismissed out of hand 🤷‍♂️

For the sake of fact, it has to be said Root did go to a fee paying school. But agree without evidence, why even bring up the point of class and selection
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