ENG vs IND series
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alexhilly1492

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1620 on: March 06, 2021, 10:18:53 AM »

For how well Lawrence has played

That's a (No Swearing Please) way to get out
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csnew

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1621 on: March 06, 2021, 10:19:15 AM »

Embarrassing performance
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gpun22

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1622 on: March 06, 2021, 10:22:46 AM »

7th consecutive innings with team total less than 206. just shameful.
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gpun22

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1623 on: March 06, 2021, 10:29:41 AM »

England could have been allowed to bat with 11 batsmen and they would have still lost it. Just didn't expect this kind of pathetic performance from them in such a vital series.
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SouthpawMark

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1624 on: March 06, 2021, 10:35:10 AM »

Aside from the 1st test, this is the worst performance in a series from England for a very long time. There are zero positives to take away from it.

Opening partnership is a mess.
No idea who should be batting at 3.
Root’s ability to captain and bat seems to have disappeared again.
Stokes batting at least one spot too high.
No idea where pope should be batting.
No idea who should be keeper.
No effective spinners.
Old/ unfit fast bowling unit.
No idea about judging the pitch and picking a side to reflect conditions.
No idea how to play spin.
Clueless rotation policy.

They’ll take the  easy out though... they’ll simply say it’s a work in progress and their focus is on the ashes.
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alexhilly1492

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1625 on: March 06, 2021, 10:46:04 AM »

7th consecutive innings with team total less than 206. just shameful.

That's a very specific number for a stat.. just to prove a point
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gpun22

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1626 on: March 06, 2021, 10:49:44 AM »

That's a very specific number for a stat.. just to prove a point
was going to put no.  200 as stat  but then 6th was 205 where they were given a round of applause when they crossed 200
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procricket

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1627 on: March 06, 2021, 10:51:59 AM »

Beaten by the better side.

They used the conditions better have better spinners and somebody always stood up (batsman) and they have better batsman in them conditions.

Move on and improve.

Lots of positives for me to take away some batsman found wanting and some bowling found wanting too.

They built pressure when bowling we didnt.

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six and out

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1628 on: March 06, 2021, 10:52:18 AM »

For everyone going off at the performances on this tour I think you need to take a serious reality check!

Since Cook, Pietersen etc all in 2012 this Indian team have lost just one Test and won 28 out of 34. India had won all of their last eight Tests at home, including six by an innings. That's almost 10 years of home tests! The one they lost took the innings of the century (voted by wisden) by Steve Smith as well.

Went into this series with numerous players touring India for the 1st time. Which included 4/5 out of the top 7 batters.

We also rotated in and out all series, getting selection wrong along the way.

India is the hardest away series, ask any ex-player and we made it harder for ourselves.

Anyone who thought this wasn't going to happen is deluding themselves.

I just hope they use the experience to learn going forwards
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1629 on: March 06, 2021, 10:56:13 AM »

The big difference between the white ball and test sides for me is that the white ball team seem to have the freedom to play knowing that they will be backed if it goes wrong.  I don't get that impression with the test side.  Look at the dismissal this series and few have fallen to big shots.  More often that not, batsmen have been tied down going nowhere, then get the pressure of men round the bat.  Whereas Rohit and Pant have taken the game to the English bowlers, there hasn't been the same pressure applied to the Indian bowlers.   

Silverwood has come in and put a marker down that the side is going to bat for time.  That is a bigger error in my view.

Clueless

It's a test match side. Each TEST Quality batsmen needs to be able to blend attack and defence. Some will have more aggressive or defensive natures and skill sets (difference between top order and middle order generally) but even so, still need to be able to adapt. The above mentality is quite simply.. white ball mentality .. I bat this way and refuse to adapt/change as the circumstance demands. That is a lack of ability both mentally and technically after all.

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alexhilly1492

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1630 on: March 06, 2021, 11:01:51 AM »

Aside from the 1st test, this is the worst performance in a series from England for a very long time. There are zero positives to take away from it.

Opening partnership is a mess.
No idea who should be batting at 3.
Root’s ability to captain and bat seems to have disappeared again.
Stokes batting at least one spot too high.
No idea where pope should be batting.
No idea who should be keeper.
No effective spinners.
Old/ unfit fast bowling unit.
No idea about judging the pitch and picking a side to reflect conditions.
No idea how to play spin.
Clueless rotation policy.

They’ll take the  easy out though... they’ll simply say it’s a work in progress and their focus is on the ashes.

Thats just not true...

1) Sibley is one for the long term
2)Crawley
3) he'll be ok, it's not his fault noone else could score any runs either, he had an ok series
4)he isn't, one bad series shouldn't make his spot change
5) he is exactly where he should be, 6 is perfect for him
6) fokes should be but it'll be butler, butler could be played as just a batsman
7) Leach? He had an ok series without ever having any score board pressure therefore very few attacking fields, bess will be a decent second spinner just needs to get some more form and get some more experience
8) that's just a ridiculous thing to say, Jimmy is fitted than ever, broad not far behind, only real injury concern is jofra elbow, mark wood getting better and better with his new run up and decent back ups in Wolkes and stone etc
9) one mistake test 3 impacted test 4, agree that's not good enough but it sits with the management
10) that wasn't good enough but is a young side who are working on their game, just look at Sibley at the start of Sri Lanka compared to now. This is also the first real experience of this level of spin bowling.
11) rotation obviously not ideal but necessary to look after mental well-being of the players and to keep them as fresh as possible for the ashes. It's obvious why it's being done. And there is a huge focus on winning world T20.

Externally yes but I think internally they will know they have work to do. The silver wood / root combination is very honest within the group and an away ashes series is always the focus of England's test cricket no matter other teams they play against that hear. It's a fact, that's how English cricket is and we may not like it but we have to accept that's how it is.


There are plenty of positives. We do appear to have found a better batting depth and there are some areas better than others. Our fast bowling stocks are still decent. Yes this series has been rubbish but there's no need for such a blatant over reaction. This negativity doesn't solve anything and just try to see the positives which are clearly there.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1631 on: March 06, 2021, 01:14:21 PM »

Aside from the 1st test, this is the worst performance in a series from England for a very long time. There are zero positives to take away from it.

Opening partnership is a mess.
No idea who should be batting at 3.
Root’s ability to captain and bat seems to have disappeared again.
Stokes batting at least one spot too high.
No idea where pope should be batting.
No idea who should be keeper.
No effective spinners.
Old/ unfit fast bowling unit.
No idea about judging the pitch and picking a side to reflect conditions.
No idea how to play spin.
Clueless rotation policy.

They’ll take the  easy out though... they’ll simply say it’s a work in progress and their focus is on the ashes.

Top 3 isn't a mess.. it's just A) not very good B) inexperienced.... Burns has never looked like a world beater and is showing said fragility but there isn't anyone better so we might as well stick with him. Sibley/Crawley are for the long term so as long as they are learning and looking to bat long every innings all is good. The 'positive' intent is for the middle order.. just bat time in the top 3 as that's what we lack and is required.


Root - again.. he's had a mini purple patch and people have yet again over reacted thinking he's going to churn out the runs.. He's our only world class batsmen now but let's not forget.. he's not great at digging in when needed.. he is good at cashing in when the batting is easier but he is still our best. personally not going to beat on him too much but do wish he'd bat long more often and not just when he can score quickly.

Stokes - Still think 5 is too high but he is our next best batter. I still don't like that he naturally attacks when we need him to dig in . he's shown he can but does he do it enough?   Still, hard to be overly critical. Do think it's the difference between him avg'ing 45+ at the end of his career and 40-42 (do think he'll finish low 40's though)

Pope - Under whelmed overall this series but first innings he showed really good skill and mindset. just unlucky.. Sadly, he's also shown a tendency to want to put bat on ball to much. Would be nice to see him look to bat time for 5-80 runs then accelerate.

Foakes - far superior to Buttler and should keep his spot. sadly he won't.

Anderson/Broad - Still our best bowlers
archer - his elbow seems chronic.. that's worrying.. can see him sacking off red ball in favour of white ball short spells
Wood - glad to see him sack off the IPL. Obviously injured
Stone - Might as well play him in rotation with Wood as the paceman
Woakes - chronic knee and his batting is now dire but we need to play him


Curran/Bairstow can do one to white ball and become mercenaries for hire.

Buttler - Ideally would fight for a top 6 spot (although, can only see him at 6 and wouldn't put him in ahead of pope now)... sadly, he's loved and will come back in for Foakes
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Mtown Don

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1632 on: March 06, 2021, 02:41:14 PM »

Top 3 isn't a mess.. it's just A) not very good B) inexperienced.... Burns has never looked like a world beater and is showing said fragility but there isn't anyone better so we might as well stick with him. Sibley/Crawley are for the long term so as long as they are learning and looking to bat long every innings all is good. The 'positive' intent is for the middle order.. just bat time in the top 3 as that's what we lack and is required.


Root - again.. he's had a mini purple patch and people have yet again over reacted thinking he's going to churn out the runs.. He's our only world class batsmen now but let's not forget.. he's not great at digging in when needed.. he is good at cashing in when the batting is easier but he is still our best. personally not going to beat on him too much but do wish he'd bat long more often and not just when he can score quickly.

Stokes - Still think 5 is too high but he is our next best batter. I still don't like that he naturally attacks when we need him to dig in . he's shown he can but does he do it enough?   Still, hard to be overly critical. Do think it's the difference between him avg'ing 45+ at the end of his career and 40-42 (do think he'll finish low 40's though)

Pope - Under whelmed overall this series but first innings he showed really good skill and mindset. just unlucky.. Sadly, he's also shown a tendency to want to put bat on ball to much. Would be nice to see him look to bat time for 5-80 runs then accelerate.

Foakes - far superior to Buttler and should keep his spot. sadly he won't.

Anderson/Broad - Still our best bowlers
archer - his elbow seems chronic.. that's worrying.. can see him sacking off red ball in favour of white ball short spells
Wood - glad to see him sack off the IPL. Obviously injured
Stone - Might as well play him in rotation with Wood as the paceman
Woakes - chronic knee and his batting is now dire but we need to play him


Curran/Bairstow can do one to white ball and become mercenaries for hire.

Buttler - Ideally would fight for a top 6 spot (although, can only see him at 6 and wouldn't put him in ahead of pope now)... sadly, he's loved and will come back in for Foakes

With you on everything except for Woakes’ batting (I think it’s similar to Ashwin’s level) and Curran (I don’t think he’s actually a great white ball player, more of a promising left arm swing bowler that’s been fast tracked then raised expectations with some good innings)
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adb club cricketer

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1633 on: March 06, 2021, 02:57:04 PM »

I don't think this series should be used to judge any Eng batsmen. Except for the road in 1st test, even the main batsman Root hasn't scored in rest of the games, so can't expect the youngsters or even Bairstow to score big with all the chop and change and rotation policy going on. Also Bairstow didn't look his usual self batting which indicates the pressure he is in as the experienced guy to just come midway and score, even though he isn't given the full 4 games to boost his confidence even after a decent SL series.

Eng didnt field their best team in all 4 games and 3rd and 4th test selection got horribly wrong/reversed, so shouldn't feel too bad that they lost. Very likely the next set of new batsmen would fail in these conditions as well unless some really special talent comes through. Eng should just learn and move on, and use the other series at home or elsewhere to decide on who stays or goes.

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InternalTraining

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Re: ENG vs IND series
« Reply #1634 on: March 06, 2021, 03:00:11 PM »

Root is not the right captain the ENG Test team needs right now. It is that simple. He has had enough time to mould a competitive Test team and he hasn't done that.

Time for a Graeme Smith style change - a young captain who will build a Test team for next 4-5 years that will outlast him.
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