Topic: England v India series (Read 84140 times)

potzy248 · « **Reply #120 on:** August 08, 2021, 06:33:45 AM »

Sibley surely cannot hold his spot? How on earth can you pick a batsman who can't/wont score on the off side. I saw him leaving over pitched half volleys throughout his innings.
Definitely a place for guys who can stick around but Sibley has no intent what soever unless its on his legs.
I know you guys don't think Bairstow et al should be given any more chances but surely you match him up against Sibley/Burns and say he's worth another decent go.

ppccopener · « **Reply #121 on:** August 08, 2021, 08:54:44 AM »

Quote from: potzy248 on August 08, 2021, 06:33:45 AM

Sibley surely cannot hold his spot? How on earth can you pick a batsman who can't/wont score on the off side. I saw him leaving over pitched half volleys throughout his innings.
Definitely a place for guys who can stick around but Sibley has no intent what soever unless its on his legs.
I know you guys don't think Bairstow et al should be given any more chances but surely you match him up against Sibley/Burns and say he's worth another decent go.

I think England will make a change in the top 3, Sibley does a job but he's limited, and virtually no pressure is being put back on the bowler. He can stay in and bat time thou which might keep him in the team.

Because we need to make a change, bairstow will stay in I think for experience.
To be fair to him, he batted ok on the tour of India and did OK yesterday. Whatever the result of this game Bairstow and Root did inject some momentum.

Bairstow needs to be 5 or 6, 3 is way too high with his defence.But 3 is too high for Crawley,Lawrence and Pope so he's not alone.
He's been moved around the order a lot and I think some on this forum think he should play, I'm not a fan but let's be fair, England don't have quality so he has to be compared with what we have available.

six and out · « **Reply #122 on:** August 08, 2021, 10:38:25 AM »

Quote from: potzy248 on August 08, 2021, 06:33:45 AM

Sibley surely cannot hold his spot? How on earth can you pick a batsman who can't/wont score on the off side. I saw him leaving over pitched half volleys throughout his innings.
Definitely a place for guys who can stick around but Sibley has no intent what soever unless its on his legs.
I know you guys don't think Bairstow et al should be given any more chances but surely you match him up against Sibley/Burns and say he's worth another decent go.

I just think surely Hameed could do a better job than Sibley, he could bat with just as much patience and has more shot options and has far far more longevity.

Crawley is worth sticking with because if he gets a couple of scores before the Ashes I think his game will do well in Oz. Burns has proved to grit it out and come back with runs so stays.

Pope vs Lawrence vs Bairstow is an interesting one (if you consider that Stokes will eventually come back in). 2 young talented players vs an experienced player who has had lots of chances but is capable of memorable innings.

Jimbo · « **Reply #123 on:** August 08, 2021, 10:45:35 AM »

When was Bairstow's last memorable test innings?

SD · « **Reply #124 on:** August 08, 2021, 01:24:59 PM »

I can't see Bairstow losing his place when he has outscored 4 of England's top 6 in this game and is an outstanding fielder in a batting line up of awful fielders. He wouldn't be my first choice for red ball cricket but he had shown some fight whilst batting and a determination and concentration in the field that others have failed to do.

Looks like we will get away from this test with a draw but it leaves a lot of selection issues to resolve and very little time before Thursday to work them out

ppccopener · « **Reply #125 on:** August 08, 2021, 02:56:01 PM »

I think Bairstow is set to bat 5 for the series with Stokes out and a young and misfiring top 3. He does bring experience and has batted better than the others as you say.

If Sibley is dropped,England have 2 problems, 2 and 3. If they just change 3 and bring in Hameed it's less disruption.

I think those who want Bairstow in might say he deserves all series at 5, he's has been up and down if he's not kept that is for sure.

Jeff Navarro · « **Reply #126 on:** August 08, 2021, 03:08:06 PM »

Hands up I underestimated Bumrah...chap can bowl a bit.
Anyway going forward we need 4 actual bowlers. If India are picking 4 genuine fast/medium bowlers + a spinner. How the hell are we picking 3 bowlers + a non event like Sam Curran?
Curran is clearly only selected because if we collapse with the bat he might brainlessly slog a few runs. Get him out the side.
Hameed in, Crawley out. Crawley aside from that 267(big fluke) averages 18 in his other 25 innings. Pope in, Lawrence out. Pope isn�t exactly a world beater but Lawrence looks like a rabbit in the headlights. Curran obviously out, either Overton or Leach. We need someone how can actually bowl with the older ball like Thakur did for India.
We are so short on batting that Bairstow�s averaging 20 odd the past 10 tests seems like the saviour...Jesus Christ...

Manormanic · « **Reply #127 on:** August 08, 2021, 03:53:24 PM »

The top three issue is tough, because any changes now have limited time to bed in pre Ashes (and the blindingly obvious selection, Malan, is not even in the extended squad). Do they really think Hameed has recovered to that level? Which of the current top three is best adapted to Australian conditions? For me, Crawley is probably that man, with Burns ahead of Big Dom on the basis that he has made runs against them here, and scores in more than a 45 degree arc.

Bairstow, not so much for his scores as for the impression that he has addressed some technical flaws, deserves a final run. The nagging question for me, post Smith is whether he or Foakes will get the gloves off Buttler.

six and out · « **Reply #128 on:** August 08, 2021, 03:59:25 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on August 08, 2021, 10:45:35 AM

When was Bairstow's last memorable test innings?

Clearly a very long time ago, but that is the point, they obviously think he is still capable of doing it again otherwise why pick him!

adb club cricketer · « **Reply #129 on:** August 08, 2021, 04:35:45 PM »

I think ICC should seriously start considering 1 reserve day for every test, not just a WTC final test. Sure there are challenges, but not that cannot be worked out by the will of all involved.
Test cricket missed a great advert today in what would have been a great 5th day irrespective of which side would have won or even drawn.

ppccopener · « **Reply #130 on:** August 08, 2021, 05:26:24 PM »

Quote from: adb club cricketer on August 08, 2021, 04:35:45 PM

I think ICC should seriously start considering 1 reserve day for every test, not just a WTC final test. Sure there are challenges, but not that cannot be worked out by the will of all involved.
Test cricket missed a great advert today in what would have been a great 5th day irrespective of which side would have won or even drawn.

They won't be able to work out an additional day in the UK it's virtually impossible with the tests crammed in our summer. Another match starts on Thursday at Lords I believe.

It's England with the problems to sort out, Ashwin will play a part in these games you would think.
Our batting is not easy to resolve but it must be tackled.

I've got...presume others are thinking how we line up

....

Burns
Sibley or Hameed
Hameed/Malan/Crawley(don't think England will pick Malan but it's an option, Crawley might get one more chance)
Root
Bairstow
Pope or Lawrence(think I'm going Pope but not much in it)
Butler.

Another option England might think is recalling Ali and playing him in Currans position, so no place for Leach. That would leave us a bit short on bowling, Ali could bat 6 I suppose leaving out Pope or Lawrence to get another bowler in.

brokenbat · « **Reply #131 on:** August 08, 2021, 07:01:05 PM »

Perhaps a neutral (non-English) perspective will help:

1. Stop dissecting each batsman�s technique. This obsession with technique is a typical �English� problem - cricket isn�t played in the coaching manual. All this does is make you run around in circles- Sibley �lacks intent�, but Bairstow has �too much� intent, Butler should �reign himself in�, but not get bowled �leaving straight balls�.. all that matters is results, and to that point�
�2.The current lot are England�s best red ball cricketers. Maybe you could make minor tweaks, but England is pretty much picking its best players. So it is pointless to try and dissect each batsman�s technique- these guys perform at the FC level and are the best you have. Don�t like it? Too bad - you�ll need to wait for longer term changes (re-prioritizing test cricket) to kick in.
3. England needs to stop (if they haven�t already) having a �team plan� for how they bat. It�s either �intent� or �bat long�. Each batsman is different. For example, Sibley should feel totally fine playing like Pujara, whereas bairstow should be allowed to force the pace.
4. Specific to bairstow and Butler, they are both supremely talented. They should just tweak their game plan a SMIDGE, but still aim to attack. If they get out doing so - so be it. They need to be fearless and play their natural game. The only adjustment Bairstow needs to make is mastering AB de villiers �late block�, to survive the balls he�s not attacking.
5. Perhaps this is a good lesson - there are real costs to forcing out quality players prematurely� KP and Ian Bell are better than the current lot even in their �old� age Today.

ppccopener · « **Reply #132 on:** August 08, 2021, 07:36:31 PM »

Interesting points especially 1. Never thought of it as a typically English issue.

potzy248 · « **Reply #133 on:** August 08, 2021, 07:56:33 PM »

Quote from: ppccopener on August 08, 2021, 07:36:31 PM

Interesting points especially 1. Never thought of it as a typically English issue.

Of course you need to dissect a batsman's technique if they continually fail. This is not an English only issue.

Doesn't need to be text book by it does need to work. Burns Sibley et al have obviously done well at County level but this is test cricket where every tiny piece of a batsman's game has been analysed and dissected by numerous parties. Test bowlers are accurate and unrelenting so wont bowl to your strengths as often as FC bowlers which is probably why us guys who know very little about Sibley wonder how he gets in your side (Sibley has clearly scored mountains of runs at FC level and bowlers must feed his strengths? I don't know).

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #134 on:** August 09, 2021, 07:36:28 AM »

Right, You'll all disagree but everyone is allowed an opinion (although, some disagree with that)

This England team is not very good and hasn't been for a very very long time. It's had some good knocks (then players are lauded as superstars) and it's had some wins but generally it's a poor team. England 'fans' have to start to be brutally honest about these players, the team, the set up and the fact that quite frankly.. They aren't very good

Sibley - The lad bats time and that's what this side (and test cricket top orders) need. Sure, he's no Cook (who was limited), Strauss or Trott but he is the best option we have currently and doing that role. Could be be better, dam right and should be training/learning to improve.

Burns - lad isn't very good.. lets be honest again.. However, again.. the best we have right now. Can he improve.. yep loads.. will he... probably not so lets just accept he's not great, enjoy the odd good knock for what it is but cast the eye to the next 15-20yr old and start creating a replacement

Crawley - Again, doesn't look unto it sadly but has been given a run. Pretty much the same as Burns .. unless there is someone better, why bother just switching lifeboats.. and no.. Barstow/Buttler/Stokes et all are not hte answer at 3..

Hameed - Would love him to be good enough again... question is... is he.. Only one way to find out but do we want to chop and change now before the Ashes..

Malan - badly treated by England (yet again).. Chances are he won't play a part and due to his age.. is it worth it anyway now?

Root - Englands ONLY test class batsmen. Just leave him batting at 4 or 5 though, don't start pushing him higher as he's not a top order batsmen

Stokes - All rounder. Great purple patch over the last 18-24 months but lets not kid ourselves. (although I'm sure people will wet themselves cause he's the greatest thing since sliced bread)... he should be at 6/7 BUT.. bUT.... England don't have any viable options currently but should be looking for some!!

Pope - looks the business... not scoring the runs.. Lets not make the same mistake and keep backing a dead donkey.. Given him another 10 tests and if he doesn't get that average to an actual test batters average then start to look for alternatives .. Maybe still play him while you find one, but stop bS'ing him up all the time

Buttler/Bairstow - Flogging dead horses. If they can't make it as test batters then kick them out and admit that we've wasted a lot of time on two players who just aren't good enough (although..... it's very impressive that Bairstow appears to have changed technique a bit.. it is too late though, he's had too many chances)

Foakes - for gods sake just put him in the side ... at 6/7 and tell him he's the man for 20 tests at least. see if he can average 40 because his keeping is far above the rest but we need the runs too sadly.

curran - for gods sake.. you guys seem to want to have his babies because he is a god $%^& (sorry, 'aggressive' and 'competitive')... biffs a few runs... he's there as a bowler.. and isn't good enough... admit he's just a modern bits and pieces player for white ball and kick him into touch.. laughable that he's in a test side.

Anderson/Broad - aging but still sadly the best we have.

Archer - They broke him.. He will be a 2020 merchant now.. maybe a few more odd games but accept he's not interested, his body can't take it and let him go earn his fortune as a mercenary

Robinson - fair play lad... looks tasty.. give him a run (shame about his stinking attitude though but hey ho)

Wood - not a 'good' bowler but sharp and we need some pace so he's in

leech - massively badly treated by England

We don't need 'team plans'.. just let each player play their game BUT expect them to adapt to each game situation. If they can't adapt to a game situation then they have no business playing red ball, let alone test cricket.. One dimensional players are to be left in white ball

I don't care if England aren't very good, I don't overly care if they lose.. just stop BS'ing them or the players up as something they aren't as we have from 2015 onwards.. accept it's a poor crop, admit it and then try and change it.. don't keep spouting the ECB line that they are some kind of 'world class' or when they happen to have a good day start saying 'look how good <insert player> is.. nailed on number x'... every dog has his day after all.. Bairstow has proven that with some timely knocks to keep saving his test skin.

Well played India but they aren't that hot either.. Enlgand only need to dig in and they can turn them over. Again, peopel over rate this India side due to the hype surrounding them

Author Topic: England v India series (Read 84140 times)

potzy248

Re: England v India series

ppccopener

Re: England v India series

six and out

Re: England v India series

Jimbo

Re: England v India series

SD

Re: England v India series

ppccopener

Re: England v India series

Jeff Navarro

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Manormanic

Re: England v India series

six and out

Re: England v India series

adb club cricketer

Re: England v India series

ppccopener

Re: England v India series

brokenbat

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ppccopener

Re: England v India series

potzy248

Re: England v India series

ProCricketer1982

Re: England v India series