England v India series
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Buzz

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #195 on: August 11, 2021, 11:17:21 AM »

Is Overton fit? Why is he in the squad if he isn't likely to play.
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edge

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #196 on: August 11, 2021, 11:20:36 AM »

Is Overton fit? Why is he in the squad if he isn't likely to play.
He should play if Anderson and Broad are both out, leaving Mahmood warming the bench. Although players being called in as 'cover' and going straight in the team is hardly unusal with England!
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stamper

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #197 on: August 11, 2021, 02:39:10 PM »


Good spot.. that's actually amusing.

God England is a dire dire dire team.



I think the team (and the squad) are doing the best they can.   I'm sure being pro sportsmen, they're not going out on the pitch not giving a toss.  They will want to win.  They're also playing arguably the no.1 or no. 2 team in the world, with a great bowling attack - and scarily, that's excluding their spinners.


However, I agree England are dire.  I think mostly because the ECB are clueless cnuts and have put red ball cricket (and therefore mainly the 'bat time' skill - which is not the same as bat for long periods without scoring, Mr Sibley) as low on the priority list as possible through their belittling of the County Championship. Partly because Ed Smith, Chris Silverwood, James Taylor et al were/are not very good selectors (getting as bad as the 90s I'd say).  And partly because for the players, pressure/confidence is a virtuous but also vicious circle.


The solution?  Sack the appropriate ECB morons who have let this happen. Replace them with a crew from CBF.  Wait 5 years.


Although I should also add that Sam Curran, for all of his battling qualities, belongs nowhere near the test side.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 02:43:48 PM by stamper »
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ppccopener

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #198 on: August 11, 2021, 02:46:31 PM »


I think the team (and the squad) are doing the best they can.   I'm sure being pro sportsmen, they're not going out on the pitch not giving a toss.  They will want to win.  They're also playing arguably the no.1 or no. 2 team in the world, with a great bowling attack - and scarily, that's excluding their spinners.


However, I agree England are dire.  I think mostly because the ECB are clueless cnuts and have put red ball cricket (and therefore mainly the 'bat time' skill - which is not the same as bat for long periods without scoring, Mr Sibley) as low on the priority list as possible through their belittling of the County Championship. Partly because Ed Smith, Chris Silverwood, James Taylor et al were/are not very good selectors (getting as bad as the 90s I'd say).  And partly because for the players, pressure/confidence is a virtuous but also vicious circle.


The solution?  Sack the appropriate ECB morons who have let this happen. Replace them with a crew from CBF.  Wait 5 years.


Although I should also add that Sam Curran, for all of his battling qualities, belongs nowhere near the test side.

Awesome to the point post. 😀. I've sacked myself from the CBF selection committee before anyone else does it. I've  still got Sibley in.
P45 in the post.
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mo_town

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #199 on: August 11, 2021, 03:27:43 PM »

All this talk of giving white ball cricket priority over red ball cricket always confuses me. What was done by the board in the past which has stopped now? Has anything changed at the grass roots level? This seems like an easy excuse to me. If I compare this to India, its not like BCCI has done anything extra for red ball cricket back in India, and yet India now has a world class team. On the contrary, BCCI is always blamed for giving priority to white ball/T20 cricket.

For me, I think this has to do with the falling standard of players in county cricket. Gone are the days when top overseas players used to rub shoulders with the county players. That is not something the board can control, can they?
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DiscoStu

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #200 on: August 11, 2021, 03:36:30 PM »

All this talk of giving white ball cricket priority over red ball cricket always confuses me. What was done by the board in the past which has stopped now? Has anything changed at the grass roots level? This seems like an easy excuse to me. If I compare this to India, its not like BCCI has done anything extra for red ball cricket back in India, and yet India now has a world class team. On the contrary, BCCI is always blamed for giving priority to white ball/T20 cricket.

For me, I think this has to do with the falling standard of players in county cricket. Gone are the days when top overseas players used to rub shoulders with the county players. That is not something the board can control, can they?

Allowing centrally contracted players to go to the IPL is one. Scheduling few FC matches during the height of summer is another.

Happy to be corrected on either.
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rickjames

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #201 on: August 11, 2021, 03:56:28 PM »

Broad now out for the series. Ah
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ppccopener

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #202 on: August 11, 2021, 04:12:25 PM »

we might be seeing the lack of FC games for the bowlers in particular now causing these injuries. I'm sure Anderson has said ideal preparation is bowling in a match not nets.

Interesting to see if we risk Wood in this match, no warm up games and then being asked to get it down quicker than anyone else can.
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adb club cricketer

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #203 on: August 11, 2021, 04:47:32 PM »

I wonder why players get injured more often these days compared to olden days. Sure, higher number of games played could be a factor but is it the only or main factor? Is the type of training also a factor? Cricketers these days train a lot on strength/weights which the previous generations didn't do. I wonder if being  more injury prone is a drawback of all that strength and weight training? Maybe cricket needs a higher balance towards flexibility to go with the strength training? Interesting to see if there have been any studies or articles on this..
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Buzz

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #204 on: August 11, 2021, 04:54:54 PM »

Trueman wouldn't have injured his calf doing hurdles for sure.
Mainly because he would have said that there aren't any hurdles on a cricket pitch.

Different bowlers benefit from different preparation.
Andy Caddick needed lots of overs, I would suggest Broad is the same.
All the England bowlers were undercooked in the last test apart from Robinson, but he has a few years on Broad and Jimmy.
Curran I think needs more overs too.

But this is the ECB's fault for not scheduling red ball games during the test summer and having virtually no red ball games in July and August at all. That is absolutely criminal.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #205 on: August 11, 2021, 05:02:36 PM »

All this talk of giving white ball cricket priority over red ball cricket always confuses me. What was done by the board in the past which has stopped now? Has anything changed at the grass roots level? This seems like an easy excuse to me. If I compare this to India, its not like BCCI has done anything extra for red ball cricket back in India, and yet India now has a world class team. On the contrary, BCCI is always blamed for giving priority to white ball/T20 cricket.

For me, I think this has to do with the falling standard of players in county cricket. Gone are the days when top overseas players used to rub shoulders with the county players. That is not something the board can control, can they?

So many things have changed from grass roots to pro game

If you look at the amateur leagues back say from 1990-2000 which produced the 2005-2013 team (and arguably the biggest growth cricket has known)..  just look around your local area.. what format did the players play from top to bottom? what skill sets did it promote/DIFFERENT skill sets etc etc

then go to the pro game. What has changed there.. when did they play the FC games? when did they play the other formats... what's changed...

priorities.. there was never the money in white ball say in 2005.. now there is more money to be made by being a 2020 mercenary than there is by focusing your skills on red ball for example.. Counties have produced white ball players who they then shoe horn into red ball teams etc.. bowlers need variations and to be able to bat now (well, smack a ball anyway) rather than accuracy AND movement/pace.. again.. where are the nagging bowlers now a days? the guys who run in, land it in the right spot ball after ball AND are either 90 ish or move the ball... not many around... more bits and pieces bowlers around now who bowl an array of balls but can't actually land them in the right place ball after ball after ball

there are many many other reasons I'm sure many on here could point to
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ppccopener

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #206 on: August 11, 2021, 05:33:39 PM »

I wonder why players get injured more often these days compared to olden days. Sure, higher number of games played could be a factor but is it the only or main factor? Is the type of training also a factor? Cricketers these days train a lot on strength/weights which the previous generations didn't do. I wonder if being  more injury prone is a drawback of all that strength and weight training? Maybe cricket needs a higher balance towards flexibility to go with the strength training? Interesting to see if there have been any studies or articles on this..

Well....there can be all the studies in the world going on but the more established traditional view(I'm not a bowler but I believe this 100 per cent)

There's being fit
There's being match fit.

The second is, as Buzz says, overs in the legs, training for bowling and getting your body used to bowling again the next day.

Modern day training,diets,conditioning and recovery is very much different from back in the 70 s or 80's.

Our two most successful bowlers in recent times, Broad and Anderson, need those overs and workload.i suspect but don't know, Ollie Robinson is the same.

As @Buzz mentions again in his post, we know one day cricket is the cash cow,but with no FC games in the best part of the summer, are the players being asked to do a job with one hand tied behind their backs?
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brokenbat

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #207 on: August 11, 2021, 06:16:43 PM »

I wonder why players get injured more often these days compared to olden days. Sure, higher number of games played could be a factor but is it the only or main factor? Is the type of training also a factor? Cricketers these days train a lot on strength/weights which the previous generations didn't do. I wonder if being  more injury prone is a drawback of all that strength and weight training? Maybe cricket needs a higher balance towards flexibility to go with the strength training? Interesting to see if there have been any studies or articles on this..

On the contrary, no fast bowler back in the day could ever dream of playing 150+ Test matches. So yes, broad is injured, but he has 150 tests on the odometer. I would say the current way of managing nutrition and fitness has been a huge success - especially for Broad and Anderson. Compare Anderson at this age… to Botham. Not even close.
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adb club cricketer

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #208 on: August 11, 2021, 07:07:53 PM »

On the contrary, no fast bowler back in the day could ever dream of playing 150+ Test matches. So yes, broad is injured, but he has 150 tests on the odometer. I would say the current way of managing nutrition and fitness has been a huge success - especially for Broad and Anderson. Compare Anderson at this age… to Botham. Not even close.

I wasn't even looking at Broad and Anderson. Given their builds and considering the time when they started playing, they seem more of old school compared to new guys who seem very muscular. Also maybe kind of explains their longevity? I am talking about the general injuries that we keep seeing in new guys coming through. See for example Gill or Thakur in this tour or the number of injuries Ind had after/before each test in Aus tour even among the less workload folks. Nowadays it is almost certain to hear someone having a niggle/tightness etc., that will keep them out for few games. I don't remember seeing these kind of frequent injuries going back even just 5-10 years.  Gill and Thakur for example don't have the too many games issue for example. So definitely somethings have changed apart from the number of games that could be contributing to the increasing injuries.
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Jimbo

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #209 on: August 11, 2021, 09:16:47 PM »

Which of the new guys do you think seem particularly muscular? Archer, Robinson and Stone aren't as far as I can see. Nor are Woakes, SCurran, Mahmood.
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