England v India series
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AJ2014

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #735 on: September 07, 2021, 10:30:48 AM »

This aged well @AJ2014
I also said don't change the winning team!
Even with this team they would have won the match if Sharma catch wasn't drop!
And now I see people asking for Buttler coming back in the team 👍
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cesare_in

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #736 on: September 07, 2021, 10:59:57 AM »

As a non-English supporter, I find Joe Root classy in every respect on and off the field, even during the press conferences, with that smile on his face. I hope the management has his back.

Fully agree. Seems a great guy!
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rickjames

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #737 on: September 07, 2021, 11:06:29 AM »

Leach and Buttler back in the side.

I expect us to mess around the former, again
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Batoff

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #738 on: September 07, 2021, 11:10:57 AM »

Leach and Buttler back in the side.

I expect us to mess around the former, again

It's just the squad at the moment, until they announce otherwise I expect Leach to be carrying the drinks
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #739 on: September 07, 2021, 11:26:00 AM »

I don't think anyone blaming Hameed for the loss. Just when you analyze things after, and think if some things played out differently, if that could have changed the result.  Doesn't mean you are saying he is the reason for all the things that happened. Still have to appreciate him scoring 60 runs in a team score of 200 odd.

You could also think what if Pope,  Bairstow and  Mo scored 30 odd each, what if Eng bowlers restricted Ind to lower, etc., but that is obvious part everyone agrees upon, there is no fun in that discussion  :D

The fact people are still ranting on about 'intent' and 'look to score'.. .it's test cricket.. Englands first priority was to not lose, if you'r then in a position to win come 1500 then go for it but don't bloody give it away being all white ball and having 'intent' and then get skittled game after game.

This series has seen 3 one sided games with heavy wins/defeats for teams.. that suggests that basically, each side is relying on someone 'coming off' rather than consistently performing.

Hameed.. If he had just plodded along given all the white ball players in the side.. maybe chasing 150 in the last session was possible?? Maybe that would have been better as you can always shut up shop for 15 overs rather than get skittled like we did and then try and survive 30+ overs ...

Root's shot... open face, trying to 'work it'.... stupid shot really given his main priority was to bat time.. why force the issue and open the door for India??

It's test cricket not one day cricket so you don't need to always be looking to have intent
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #740 on: September 07, 2021, 11:30:18 AM »

This team needs Ben Stokes. Period. Without Stokes, there is no fire in either the batting or bowling. The English attack can only prosper when the ball is swinging miles, but noone has the talent to to make things work when conditions are favorable. I dread to think what Australia will do to this side in their home conditions!

christ sake.. He isn't a messiah.. he avg's late 30's and it wasn't 'fire' that was needed.. it was simply the ability to bat long and not give the wicket away.  Even if you take a one off , once in a lifetime performance as an example...

Stokes... 2019.. vs Aus

how many balls was it be batted when it was purely surviving ???? Purely trying to protect a batsmen???

then.. right when the game as pretty much lost.. he just rolled the dice and went for it...     If he (and root at the time from memory) had done what most people seem to be moaning about and had 'intent' and 'looked to score' from the off.. no way he could have produced that innings.. To get yourself in a position in a test to win when you are behind the curve, you have to first..do the hard hards..

England in this test, did SOME hard yards with the openers but they failed to continue to do the hard yards and everyone else just went waaaaay to early rather than ensuring they firstly, tried to make the draw genuinely available before looking to win.. they looked to win and paid the price because their batting is to gun ho
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #741 on: September 07, 2021, 11:32:25 AM »

Sadly, we just need to accept that we are currently a very average test outfit and average performances will happen as a result.


hahaha


good luck finding the ECB, Media or 99% of people on here willing to admit this side is very average... Continuous banging on about how great most of these players are!!

Woakesssyyy...

Stokeesssyyyy

Roootttyyyyy

YJB YJB

etc etc etc
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #742 on: September 07, 2021, 11:34:41 AM »

Butter in for Bairstow whom is averaging 21 in his last 34 innings.


but YJB is the 2nd best England batter... peeps here said so!!!  Can't possibly be his fault..


As it happens though.. Now they've been stupid enough to pick him and Foakes seems unlikely to ever get picked again... Leave Bairstow at 7 as the wk batter.. no higher as he's not good enough but as a 7, he is decent enough and there are bigger issues in the batting than Bairstow.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #743 on: September 07, 2021, 11:39:47 AM »

You may all love white ball but Test Cricket isn't white ball. Sure you play to win but you first make sure you can draw if you are under the pump.. Don't lose.. If you do that, you never know what can happen.. If you keep going out there with players who simply aren't prepared to bat time under pressure or just 'play my way' and hit and hope to have a good day then you're just asking to be crap at red ball cricket.

Sure you'll have some good innings, some good games or even series.. but over the long term... you'll avg 30's or less... shock horror.... that's what we have!

If anyone points at Root (insert Kohli/smith or Williamson) and say 'ah but they do it'... yeah.. they do.. because.. well, you know.. THEY ARE ACTUALLY WORLD CLASS and only a very very very small section of people are world class and able to combine solid defence, capable of batting a long time with intent to score.. the majority simply can't..

Stop having a go at players who are either slow plodders in test cricket because, well... test sides need them... Just like at 6/7 you need players who are more like one day players (Buttler/Bairstow etc).. because you know, they are the guys that cash in against tired bowlers and score at higher rates.. not bloody 1/2/3..their job is to bat time
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jonny77

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #744 on: September 07, 2021, 11:43:04 AM »


hahaha


good luck finding the ECB, Media or 99% of people on here willing to admit this side is very average... Continuous banging on about how great most of these players are!!

Woakesssyyy...

Stokeesssyyyy

Roootttyyyyy

YJB YJB

etc etc etc

I think most people would admit that, but doesn't mean you have to constantly slate everything they do.

I find it better trying to be positive than being overly negative, or just being completely irrational about international cricketers tbh. If you don't class 'Roooottttyyy' as a world class batsman, I'm not sure what you're looking for!

Stokes is hugely missed as he helps balance the side and in the past has bowled great spells when needed, making things happen when nobody else could. A bit like Bumrah did yesterday.

Bairstow is a 6 or 7 and in my opinion a better red ball player than Butler. Plus no worse with the gloves. He'd get into a few test sides I reckon. Pretty much most of the pundits/ex-players in the media I've heard discuss his role have said the same.

But then again what do they, myself or anyone else on here (apart from your good self obviously it seems) know! 😆
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ppccopener

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #745 on: September 07, 2021, 12:02:00 PM »

I think most people would admit that, but doesn't mean you have to constantly slate everything they do.

I find it better trying to be positive than being overly negative, or just being completely irrational about international cricketers tbh. If you don't class 'Roooottttyyy' as a world class batsman, I'm not sure what you're looking for!

Stokes is hugely missed as he helps balance the side and in the past has bowled great spells when needed, making things happen when nobody else could. A bit like Bumrah did yesterday.

Bairstow is a 6 or 7 and in my opinion a better red ball player than Butler. Plus no worse with the gloves. He'd get into a few test sides I reckon. Pretty much most of the pundits/ex-players in the media I've heard discuss his role have said the same.

But then again what do they, myself or anyone else on here (apart from your good self obviously it seems) know! 😆

I think there is most of the time a fairly healthy debate, different views of course  :)

But even those of us who have it the other way round, Butler before bairstow, know there is not much in it.
Butler is short of cricket and not in form, plus rumour has it he’s missing the Ashes.

Bairstow in Sri Lanka batted pretty good, and he’s done pretty good in this series too.His keeping looks maybe a bit improved from before.
 
I find it impossible to believe both will play at old Trafford, we need to shoe in the most bowling we can.

I don’t think myself it would now be right to drop Bairstow, so Butler missed out.
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Jimbo

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #746 on: September 07, 2021, 12:03:22 PM »

Think the stats support that Bairstow is a better red ball batsman than Buttler. I'd still rather have Foakes in keeping and batting at 7 but Bairstow makes sense for the next test at least.

Longer term I wouldn't mind seeing England looking at a a few slightly more experienced red ball players for the test side. Aussies showed the value of experience when they brought in the likes of Voges or Rogers, don't think it's crazy to suggest that England's newer players have suffered from a lack of experience around them as they develop their test careers.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #747 on: September 07, 2021, 12:05:07 PM »

I think most people would admit that, but doesn't mean you have to constantly slate everything they do.

I find it better trying to be positive than being overly negative, or just being completely irrational about international cricketers tbh. If you don't class 'Roooottttyyy' as a world class batsman, I'm not sure what you're looking for!

Stokes is hugely missed as he helps balance the side and in the past has bowled great spells when needed, making things happen when nobody else could. A bit like Bumrah did yesterday.

Bairstow is a 6 or 7 and in my opinion a better red ball player than Butler. Plus no worse with the gloves. He'd get into a few test sides I reckon. Pretty much most of the pundits/ex-players in the media I've heard discuss his role have said the same.

But then again what do they, myself or anyone else on here (apart from your good self obviously it seems) know! 😆

Root is World Class. THE ONLY world class batter England have.

The others aren't world class batsmen and most aren't even test class batsmen as they simply don't average 40+.  Simply stop over rating them. State 'good knock' when they come off but don't start saying 'oh x is great, what a player'.. just acknowledge it was a randomly good knock.. That way, not only do 'we' not over rate players but also we don't get down when they fail because.. well.. it's expected as they aren't very good.

Stokes has a knackered knee, his best spells for bowling are behind him. Accept that he's basically now going to be a batsmen (so needs to get that avg above 40 which he was on track to do) and forget his bowling . Woakes is the premier all rounder really now (and under rated) but even he had injury issues. There is no replacement for Woakes (no, curran isn't even close!).


The rest of the batting, just accept they can't (currently) bat like smith/williamson/kohli or root and accept their limitations. If Sibley/Burns/Hameed/crawley/Malan are the best we have in the top 3 then simply assign them a role.. that role is to tire the bowlers out.. leave the fast scoring to the middle order of stokes, Buttler, Barstow, pope, woakes.. that way, at least we play like a test side and start to play consistent cricket. rather than one game someone comes off, next game skittled.


FYI... I can't stand Barstow and the amount of chances he's had and continues to get .. BUT... IF.. IF England are simply going to ignore Foakes then Bairstow for me anyway, is the Wk Bat at 7 with Woakes at 8.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 12:06:58 PM by ProCricketer1982 »
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jonny77

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #748 on: September 07, 2021, 12:38:59 PM »

Root is World Class. THE ONLY world class batter England have.

The others aren't world class batsmen and most aren't even test class batsmen as they simply don't average 40+.  Simply stop over rating them. State 'good knock' when they come off but don't start saying 'oh x is great, what a player'.. just acknowledge it was a randomly good knock.. That way, not only do 'we' not over rate players but also we don't get down when they fail because.. well.. it's expected as they aren't very good.

Stokes has a knackered knee, his best spells for bowling are behind him. Accept that he's basically now going to be a batsmen (so needs to get that avg above 40 which he was on track to do) and forget his bowling . Woakes is the premier all rounder really now (and under rated) but even he had injury issues. There is no replacement for Woakes (no, curran isn't even close!).


The rest of the batting, just accept they can't (currently) bat like smith/williamson/kohli or root and accept their limitations. If Sibley/Burns/Hameed/crawley/Malan are the best we have in the top 3 then simply assign them a role.. that role is to tire the bowlers out.. leave the fast scoring to the middle order of stokes, Buttler, Barstow, pope, woakes.. that way, at least we play like a test side and start to play consistent cricket. rather than one game someone comes off, next game skittled.


FYI... I can't stand Barstow and the amount of chances he's had and continues to get .. BUT... IF.. IF England are simply going to ignore Foakes then Bairstow for me anyway, is the Wk Bat at 7 with Woakes at 8.

Not sure I've ever said we have a side of world class players tbh. Come to that, not sure i hear that at all on here or anywhere else either.

I agree Stokes won't be used much as a bowler, was making the point that he's been missed due to the balance he gave the side. Before his injury and recent issues, there were not many better true all rounders about imo.

Oh and to borrow one of your terms.....Foakes ain't the messiah! Bairstow and Buttler are both adequate with the gloves and probably both offer more with the bat so not sure what Foakes would add, apart from his keeping. Which as good as it is, won't win you matches. Especially when we don't have a great spinner.
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Jimbo

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Re: England v India series
« Reply #749 on: September 07, 2021, 01:05:48 PM »

I think Foakes is probably capable of applying more pressure with his keeping, would back him standing up far more than Buttler or Bairstow.

He's also a more naturally gritty player than Bairstow or Buttler so offers a point of difference compared to the likes of Root, Stokes and Pope who would be my personal choice for 4/5/6 in an ideal world.
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