England vs West Indies series....
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aditel007

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #210 on: March 30, 2022, 01:04:47 PM »
cant understand the hype about Sibley...the guy averages 38 in first class and 28 in Tests....but then on the other hand we have Lees who is worse and averages 34 in first class...a quick glance at some of the figures and there is no one averaging even 40 (forget 50) in first class cricket as an opener.
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Jimbo

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #211 on: March 30, 2022, 01:30:25 PM »
Quote from: aditel007 on March 30, 2022, 01:04:47 PM
cant understand the hype about Sibley...the guy averages 38 in first class and 28 in Tests....but then on the other hand we have Lees who is worse and averages 34 in first class...a quick glance at some of the figures and there is no one averaging even 40 (forget 50) in first class cricket as an opener.

The season he had before his England call up was pretty spectacular and he's shown a willingness to do the hard yards. If he can expand his game slightly without losing the solidity and ability to bat long then he would be exactly what England need.
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ppccopener

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #212 on: March 30, 2022, 02:27:35 PM »
A stand out average would be Pope but he is on a good track for home games.
It’s no guarantee either as we have seen in the past so how to pick becomes harder for the selectors.

I’ve said before Sibley should not be dumped, Crawley has an all round game but is maybe not an opener, Lawrence has done ok.

It’s not all bad. Now that Lees has been picked I cannot see why he would be dropped.

Personally I see nothing wrong with playing 3 openers as we did in the past, in the current side Crawley would bat 3 in that scenario.

Root 4 and Bairstow and Lawrence, Foakes in the keepers spot.

There would be Pope still in the squad.

On figures alone I think it’s Burns that averages the highest of the group tried already
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jonny77

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #213 on: March 30, 2022, 02:54:52 PM »
Quote from: aditel007 on March 30, 2022, 01:04:47 PM
cant understand the hype about Sibley...the guy averages 38 in first class and 28 in Tests....but then on the other hand we have Lees who is worse and averages 34 in first class...a quick glance at some of the figures and there is no one averaging even 40 (forget 50) in first class cricket as an opener.

Can you expect many openers in FC to avg 40 + tho really? Most games played when the balls hooping around and doing absolute bits off the seam too. Its a tough job. Expectations around averages for openers in the UK probably need revising maybe?
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #214 on: March 30, 2022, 04:57:40 PM »
Quote from: jonny77 on March 30, 2022, 02:54:52 PM
Can you expect many openers in FC to avg 40 + tho really? Most games played when the balls hooping around and doing absolute bits off the seam too. Its a tough job. Expectations around averages for openers in the UK probably need revising maybe?

No, the schedule needs revising. You can't learn to be accomplished at a job without doing that job.

It says something about where we're at that Lees is considered to be 'doing alright' after averaging 20, with a top score of 31, in 6 knocks. We have absolutely no reason to believe he is or will be better than Burns or Sibley or any of the others.

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jonny77

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #215 on: March 30, 2022, 05:15:27 PM »
I agree. This was my point. The way things are a FC avg of 40+ isn't gonna be the norm, due to when matches are played and conditions they're played in. So if the schedule doesn't change, the expectation of avgs should.
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potzy248

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #216 on: March 30, 2022, 05:46:31 PM »
You should be able to compare the England players against overseas openers who play county cricket and see if its just an English problem or a County cricket problem.
Any standout Overseas openers/top order batsman carving up in the last couple of years?
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billyb

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #217 on: March 31, 2022, 03:09:01 AM »
Somewhere in Crawley, Sibley, Pope, Crawley, Vince, and Burns has to be the answer to our woes, otherwise we are utterly beyond help.  :(
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Kulli

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #218 on: March 31, 2022, 04:58:38 AM »
Quote from: ppccopener on March 30, 2022, 02:27:35 PM
A stand out average would be Pope but he is on a good track for home games.
It’s no guarantee either as we have seen in the past so how to pick becomes harder for the selectors.

I’ve said before Sibley should not be dumped, Crawley has an all round game but is maybe not an opener, Lawrence has done ok.

It’s not all bad. Now that Lees has been picked I cannot see why he would be dropped.

Personally I see nothing wrong with playing 3 openers as we did in the past, in the current side Crawley would bat 3 in that scenario.

Root 4 and Bairstow and Lawrence, Foakes in the keepers spot.

There would be Pope still in the squad.

On figures alone I think it’s Burns that averages the highest of the group tried already

Leaving out Stokes?
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edge

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #219 on: March 31, 2022, 06:06:37 AM »
Quote from: potzy248 on March 30, 2022, 05:46:31 PM
You should be able to compare the England players against overseas openers who play county cricket and see if its just an English problem or a County cricket problem.
Any standout Overseas openers/top order batsman carving up in the last couple of years?
This is suspiciously sensible... without going into too much depth, here's all the international top 3 bats in the CC last year. Some small sample sizes of course.

K Brathwaite - 26.8
W Young - 39.7
A Cook - 32.1
M Harris - 54.5
D Conway - 40.3
P Malan - 37.6
H Rutherford - 37.14
M Labuschagne - 32.7
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golders

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #220 on: March 31, 2022, 06:38:18 AM »
Quote from: billyb on March 31, 2022, 03:09:01 AM
Somewhere in Crawley, Sibley, Pope, Crawley, Vince, and Burns has to be the answer to our woes, otherwise we are utterly beyond help.  :(

Burns has been lucky enough to play the amount of tests he already has. He gets out for 0 loads. Burns isn’t even part of the convo
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potzy248

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #221 on: March 31, 2022, 08:02:39 AM »
Quote from: edge on March 31, 2022, 06:06:37 AM
This is suspiciously sensible... without going into too much depth, here's all the international top 3 bats in the CC last year. Some small sample sizes of course.

K Brathwaite - 26.8
W Young - 39.7
A Cook - 32.1
M Harris - 54.5
D Conway - 40.3
P Malan - 37.6
H Rutherford - 37.14
M Labuschagne - 32.7

Was this before or after Labushagne cracked it?
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edge

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #222 on: March 31, 2022, 08:26:07 AM »
Quote from: potzy248 on March 31, 2022, 08:02:39 AM
Was this before or after Labushagne cracked it?
After, that's all 2021 season stats. 6 games, 9 digs, 228 runs, 2 fifties, 0 tons, got done by Anderson/Stevens 4 or 5 times I think.
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Manormanic

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #223 on: March 31, 2022, 08:33:30 AM »
To be fair, conditions in the first half of last season were utterly ghastly for batsmen. 
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: England vs West Indies series....
« Reply #224 on: March 31, 2022, 08:59:37 AM »
I'm not suggesting it gives all the answers, but an interesting statistic was that the Aussie Ashes side combined played more English county cricket in the 2021 season than the England one did.
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