Modern trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
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jonny77

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Modern trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« on: November 29, 2022, 09:57:43 PM »

Fairly quiet time on the forum, but @golders post on the GM Hypa thread got me thinking and didn't want to derail that thread. So thought I'd start this one and hopefully get people talking....

@golders comment...
If only you could spawn that unicorn 2’8/9 gauge filler every single time mate. Must be tougher for batmakers now what with the gauge-everyone wants one with max specs at light weights!
 

My thoughts...
Imo it's driving batmaking in the wrong direction. Largely specs over substance, just to meet a demand which is built on the idea that bigger is ultimately better. I had a conversation with an online retailer via Instagram recently who argued companies were doing the right thing by narrowing, over drying etc etc, as they were just giving people what they wanted, big bats at lighter weights more often. I can't say I agree, as for me it's just detrimental to the product.

Willow is in really high demand worldwide, but yet large parts of the industry are making bats which won't last as long, so willow will be in even greater demand. Consumers get what they want with big edge bats etc more common, but end up buying more often as they break quicker. Ultimately they pay more as willow becomes more expensive (due to demand) and so therefore pay higher prices more often too. It's crazy when you think about it really!

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on the current trends, what effects it's having and where people see it going?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 05:50:00 PM by Chad »
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InternalTraining

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2022, 10:26:30 PM »

Willow is in really high demand worldwide, but yet large parts of the industry are making bats which won't last as long, so willow will be in even greater demand. Consumers get what they want with big edge bats etc more common, but end up buying more often as they break quicker. Ultimately they pay more as willow becomes more expensive (due to demand) and so therefore pay higher prices more often too. It's crazy when you think about it really!

Interested to hear everyone's thoughts on the current trends, what effects it's having and where people see it going?

1. Isn't "global" inflation driving the prices up for everything?
2. Let's put the rising prices due to expensive freight aside...
It'd be interesting to find out exact year-over-year demand increase of cricket bats. Also, in which markets are we seeing this demand? How's the market doing in India? Is it the largest importer of English willow? Are cricket bat prices rising or falling in India? Pre-inflation and pre-pandemic, prices of bats made in India was cheaper than UK/AUS and quality was very good - nice ping/performance. PAK made bats vary in price depending on brand, market, etc.
3. Lets say that the price continues to climb and many young players are priced out of the game. Two things are possible: a:) sport shrinks; b:); alternative materials would emerge (something that I have talked about in the past) such as aluminium, non-English willow, heck even polymer.
4. I don't have the numbers but I think the only growing market for cricket is Asia. If prices do grow out of control, people there could look at alternative materials sooner than UK/AUS. And, I really hope they do that. This willow monopoly serves only one business entity and we all know who that is!
5. At the lower, non pro-levels, non-willow options should be encouraged. That will keep the sport alive. If the sport of cricket falls into oblivion, it'd because of religious adherence to traditions. With shorter attention spans, shrinking interest in physical activities, and rising interest in meta/virtual/video games , cricket admins needs to make changes at the lower levels of the game to attract new players. It is hard as it is. Throw in expensive bats, equipment in the mix, we have far too many discouraging factors for young people. ICC/MCC really need to have a deeper look at this.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 10:28:39 PM by InternalTraining »
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Thamesvalley

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2022, 10:43:45 PM »

If you review prices uk wise GM are incredible value and not narrowing at the lower end …

They provide good bats at Great value , even with inflation the last 10 years they are still so competitive ..
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KW9221

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2022, 11:04:24 PM »

In my opinion, greed is killing this sport. Asian bats don’t last long because they are very drying them. They have little to zero customer service or any sort of money back warranty. I have been using UK/Aus made bats for years and find them nightmarish to get them match ready but they do last. My B3 that I bought used from eBay in 2016 still going strong.
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jonny77

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2022, 11:08:34 PM »

If you review prices uk wise GM are incredible value and not narrowing at the lower end …

They provide good bats at Great value , even with inflation the last 10 years they are still so competitive ..

Not really answering the question i asked mate tbh. I agree GM make great bats and offer some value options. They do however charge a huge premium for their 'low density' options and Players bats. Going back to my point around the issues with modern trends. You yourself stated that even on a Signature at 2lbs 9oz with no concaving you'd expect 37mm edges?
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Jimbo

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2022, 11:11:05 PM »

Think it's also partly a symptom of the disposable consumerism we've gotten used to. You see it with clothes, wear it once and chuck it, and it's creeping in to other things. Cheap Indian/Pakistani made bat for half a season, get another, half a season use and then repeat.

A lot of people just don't value longevity and build quality any more.
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Thamesvalley

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2022, 11:20:10 PM »

The GM bats are not huge by any stretch

It’s only a new bat that’s come this year that is

That’s called the brava … I believe that’s circa 39 mm edge and 63 spine …

Is the brava considered low density … it probably is ..

The Hypa 37 mm edges and what’s it got a 60 spine and a thick handle is that considered big these days . I’m sure their usual weight is around 2.10 and they are not over dried . For the price of circa 160 they are a bargain ..

GM player bats are expensive but lower priced than Indian players

« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 11:30:21 PM by Thamesvalley »
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2022, 11:34:05 PM »

For what it’s worth from my tiny participation in bat sales I would say 70% of people no matter what I say or explain will always demand specs over anything else and that just seems to be the trend.

Now I don’t know at all about total prices but there is a huge discrepancy between bats with me for example charging under £300 for a G1 and for example GM charging £750 for a players both of which are G1 as there is no higher grade end of. Now lots of variables come into this mainly lots more overheads but at volume of orders vs mark up I’m guessing the profit margin in those bats is now far more than 5 years ago.

The tricks that are now common place amongst certain brands from a moral standing in my opinion are wrong, the descriptions don’t state Harrow width, sloping edges, dried to within an inch of life left so you are getting good time not a long time bat but the fact is outside of this forum 90% either don’t care, aren’t aware or not bothered as long as they get what they believe will make there game better.

As for going forward I personally don’t feel much if anything will it change, the rules and bat gauge regulations now stipulate max specs so that restricts innovation and what can be done that hasn’t?? The idea that after hundreds of years the MCC that govern cricket will allow other materials to be used just won’t happen.

As for pricing and demand it will not change nothing ever does
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Thamesvalley

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2022, 11:41:09 PM »

Agree it’s not a fair playing field with all these tricks bay makers do

I know you two don’t do this Harrow width but other uk bay makers perhaps do

GM don’t either from what I have seen
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Ajdal

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2022, 07:42:01 AM »

In my opinion smaller bat makers don't have the drying capacity like bigger manufacturers do, especially in the UK and they can't make decent spec bats in a large volume. Yes cheaper handles and a bit of narrowing is common these days but Keeley does narrowing on international player bats too, so i don't think its a huge deal. Most people on here, and in general don't have the patience or time for a small harder pressed bat to open up taking months. Imagine having to face 2000+ balls to open up a bat and get it close to match ready. Players who are playing longer formats, I suppose they don't necessarily need a 'big' bat because there's no need to score runs at 130+ SR but majority are playing shorter formats and prefer the bigger bats and the confidence it brings. If bigger bats didn't have an advantage(to a certain extent of course) you wouldn't see almost all top players using max spec bats.
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Kulli

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2022, 08:24:46 AM »

The GM bats are not huge by any stretch

It’s only a new bat that’s come this year that is

That’s called the brava … I believe that’s circa 39 mm edge and 63 spine …

Is the brava considered low density … it probably is ..

The Hypa 37 mm edges and what’s it got a 60 spine and a thick handle is that considered big these days . I’m sure their usual weight is around 2.10 and they are not over dried . For the price of circa 160 they are a bargain ..

GM player bats are expensive but lower priced than Indian players

The Brava is a flat face right? To allow for bigger edges.

EDIT - I agree with the directions Jonny is going towards above, but that said I still want unicorn bats when I buy a new one, but that's likely just the forums influence!
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marsbug

Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2022, 09:03:47 AM »

I'm not sure about trends, but I'm always interested in where bat shapes are going in the future. I realise that the gauge has limited what can be done to a certain extent, but I think that there are still probably a few different avenues that could be tried out. Of course, whether people would buy them is another matter! I've linked to it before I think, but in this Masters thesis there are a few different examples shown (with loads more calculated but not shown) of shapes designed by artifical intelligence:

https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0392675

Here are a few grabs of the sort of thing I mean.






Many of these shapes would take longer than usual to make by hand, but would be quick for a CNC. Most of us can probably imagine how bad some of these shapes might actually feel to use, which is where I would love a master bat maker to take some of these ideas, and make them actually good to use.

I also have other ideas for a VERY different bat, that meets all the laws, but would need a CNC guru to make it work. It would be pretty ugly to look at too, and so would need some pretty special marketing to make people want to buy it.

I don't want to dereail the thread, but one thing that I worry about is the impact of climate change. There are obviously more important things, but if we consider just the effect on cricket bat willow, in the short term I guess that all those lovely narrow grained bats will disappear, as growing seasons lengthen and the grains get wider. Will this also have an effect on density, or will it still vary tree to tree? In the longer term, will there be a change in the growing locations for the willow, and the overall sustainability of this wood?

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Vulcan Cricket

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2022, 09:15:30 AM »

I don't post much on here but yes cost are going up as in every thing .. and all I would say big brands have to charge more few things they have huge over heads lots of wages to pay for staff and pros .. unlike me I just have me to pay so I can see why .. you pay your money take your pick
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JTtaylor145

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2022, 09:47:18 AM »

@jonny77  Jonny, I buy a lot of bats as you know. To be perfectly honest to answer your question I couldn't care less about specs on a bat. If the bat had 20mm edges and 59mm spine and pinged like crazy that's all I care about. I care more about handle shape and size and pick up. As long as the bat performs that is the only criteria.

JT

Thamesvalley

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Re: Moderm trends, pro's, cons and where it's going next?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2022, 10:09:16 AM »

You’re right JT however I think even you like that big shape brava :)

But I agree fundamentally with you

I don’t go for massive specs either but sometimes the visual helps a lot
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