Topic: Laminates (Read 3987 times)

Neon Cricket · « **Reply #15 on:** September 26, 2023, 07:03:05 AM »

Having used a couple pre-Neon, I'm not convinced it makes any difference to the performance of a bat - for me it's just a way for companies to make a sh*te piece of wood look nice by sticking a pretty face on it, to be brutally honest.

Other than the required craftsmanship involved (which can't be knocked), what's the difference between this and finding a pingy ugly cleft and sticking a fake grain sheet on?

Charging �500+ for 1/12th of a nice cleft and 11/12th's of a piece of junk is incredible business. Unfortunately the public only know what they're told so take it as face value as some magic performance enhancing super cleft when in reality it's just a pretty face stuck on a G4 cleft...

Intrigued to see CBF's view on it. I've no intention of ever selling laminates myself, but would you fork out the extra and trust what you're being told?

alba caerulea · « **Reply #16 on:** September 26, 2023, 08:09:47 AM »

Ive got a Chase performance laminate and it is a belter. I suppose you could never say for sure if its due to the glue and extra face or if its just a good performing cleft underneath. I dont really fancy removing both to test the theory!

The grains on the back of it are significantly better than the ones on the front so I guess Mr Chase believes its all about performance.

Neon Cricket · « **Reply #17 on:** September 26, 2023, 08:23:48 AM »

Quote from: alba caerulea on September 26, 2023, 08:09:47 AM

The grains on the back of it are significantly better than the ones on the front so I guess Mr Chase believes its all about performance.

Nice, to be fair Chase are one of the exceptions - I had one off them years back and it was the same case (my gripe is with people doing the opposite, probably should've made that clearer!) but then it also had the cork layer which doesn't appear to be the case with others

jonny77 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 26, 2023, 11:16:40 AM »

Quote from: Neon Cricket on September 26, 2023, 07:03:05 AM

Having used a couple pre-Neon, I'm not convinced it makes any difference to the performance of a bat - for me it's just a way for companies to make a sh*te piece of wood look nice by sticking a pretty face on it, to be brutally honest.

Other than the required craftsmanship involved (which can't be knocked), what's the difference between this and finding a pingy ugly cleft and sticking a fake grain sheet on?

Charging �500+ for 1/12th of a nice cleft and 11/12th's of a piece of junk is incredible business. Unfortunately the public only know what they're told so take it as face value as some magic performance enhancing super cleft when in reality it's just a pretty face stuck on a G4 cleft...

Intrigued to see CBF's view on it. I've no intention of ever selling laminates myself, but would you fork out the extra and trust what you're being told?

I'm in agreement here. For me, laminates are just a way of splitting a very nice cleft into many and making more money (in the main). Which is what the batmaking industry is about generally, certainly at the level of anyone doing it full time. People can say these bats perform much better etc, but as with everything in cricket, there doesn't seem to be any studies to back it up. It would be almost impossible to quantify wouldn't it?

Companies will generally tell you the thing they're selling is better than this or that, but whether that's backed up by facts or not is debatable. Good bats are good bats, but you still have to have ability.

Personally, I wouldn't want to spend money on a bat I couldn't use in a game. But understand some would and some would use them regardless. As some people will look for any edge they can and if they believe a laminate gives them that (rightly or wrongly), then fair enough. As with bigger bats, pro bats etc etc, they certainly won't make anyone score more runs or hit bigger than talent, coaching and effort on training etc imo.

alba caerulea · « **Reply #19 on:** September 26, 2023, 05:07:31 PM »

Next to no chance of being pulled up at club level for using a well made performance laminate. I dont think thats even worth considering when debating whether to buy one or not. Mention laminate to most people outside this forum and they think you're talking about flooring.

Of course if you are highly strung with cricketing morals thats a different story.

jonny77 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 26, 2023, 05:58:25 PM »

Quote from: alba caerulea on September 26, 2023, 05:07:31 PM

Next to no chance of being pulled up at club level for using a well made performance laminate. I dont think thats even worth considering when debating whether to buy one or not. Mention laminate to most people outside this forum and they think you're talking about flooring.

Of course if you are highly strung with cricketing morals thats a different story.

Wouldn't say I'm highly strung on cricketing morals mate, was just giving an opinion and not having a go at anybody buying one. As I said, fair enough

Chompy9760 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 27, 2023, 01:34:42 AM »

Quote from: alba caerulea on September 26, 2023, 05:07:31 PM

Next to no chance of being pulled up at club level for using a well made performance laminate. I dont think thats even worth considering when debating whether to buy one or not. Mention laminate to most people outside this forum and they think you're talking about flooring.

Of course if you are highly strung with cricketing morals thats a different story.

Ah, yes - morals..... where the question is not if it's right or wrong (because you know it's wrong), but "can I get away with it?"

To clarify, from the MCC rules, a "Class D" bat may be :
B.7.1 laminated but using only wood and with no more than three pieces.
and
5.8.3 The specifications for Type D bats are described in Appendix B.7 and are for use by
junior players in junior cricket only.
5.8.4 Bats of Type B, Type C, Type D and any other bats may be used only at or below
levels determined by the Governing Body for cricket in the country concerned.

I'll admit I'm not sure what the ECB say on this, or where to find their view. Google did find an official statement from Thames Valley Cricket league in 2016 saying that they were illegal, and umpires had to watch out for them.

If people think it's acceptable for a club team to all use bats that don't conform to MCC rules to get a (percieved) advantage, then they should also find it acceptable for their opposition to use a ball that doesn't conform to the rules in order to get advantage.

Interesting concept though. A change to the rules could open the floodgates to major improvements in bat design and performance. I'm already visualizing a bat faced with a layer of the stuff they make superballs with!

Chompy9760 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 27, 2023, 01:48:31 AM »

Quote from: elliss on September 25, 2023, 12:11:08 PM

they are legal in junior league cricket. not sure why. possibly a cost consideration

have considered getting one for my junior who uses SH 2.11 bat...... but not worth the 'questions'

It seems you're spot on. google found this as part of the 2017 bat restriction rule changes:

Quote

Bat blades must still be made "solely" of wood, one piece and not coloured, but the MCC law makers have written in concessions for bats size 6 or smaller, in junior cricket. The MCC explained: "In an attempt to reduce the cost of junior bats, lamination (the gluing of two or more pieces of wood) will now be allowed in the blade. This will allow manufacturers to use more off-cuts in bats for juniors, hopefully reducing the price."

alba caerulea · « **Reply #23 on:** September 27, 2023, 08:20:10 AM »

Quote from: jonny77 on September 26, 2023, 05:58:25 PM

Wouldn't say I'm highly strung on cricketing morals mate, was just giving an opinion and not having a go at anybody buying one. As I said, fair enough

Comment wasn't really directed at you, more towards the OP who sounds like he is considering buying one.

alba caerulea · « **Reply #24 on:** September 27, 2023, 08:28:35 AM »

Quote from: Chompy9760 on September 27, 2023, 01:34:42 AM

Ah, yes - morals..... where the question is not if it's right or wrong (because you know it's wrong), but "can I get away with it?"

To clarify, from the MCC rules, a "Class D" bat may be :
B.7.1 laminated but using only wood and with no more than three pieces.
and
5.8.3 The specifications for Type D bats are described in Appendix B.7 and are for use by
junior players in junior cricket only.
5.8.4 Bats of Type B, Type C, Type D and any other bats may be used only at or below
levels determined by the Governing Body for cricket in the country concerned.

I'll admit I'm not sure what the ECB say on this, or where to find their view. Google did find an official statement from Thames Valley Cricket league in 2016 saying that they were illegal, and umpires had to watch out for them.

If people think it's acceptable for a club team to all use bats that don't conform to MCC rules to get a (percieved) advantage, then they should also find it acceptable for their opposition to use a ball that doesn't conform to the rules in order to get advantage.

Interesting concept though. A change to the rules could open the floodgates to major improvements in bat design and performance. I'm already visualizing a bat faced with a layer of the stuff they make superballs with!

Please don't quote the rules to me, you sound really boring. I am aware of the rules.

All balls are from the same manufacturer in the League I play in and given to the umpires before each innings. So your crafty plan wouldn't work. Minor ball tampering however is widely accepted without much moaning - shining the ball using illegal fluids, lifting the seam slightly with fingernails, throwing the ball in on the bounce later in the innings, trying to get the ball out of shape so its changed etc. These things happen at club, county and international level and largely pass without incident

Its such a minor thing it really doesn't matter. It doesn't impact player safety. As stated above by 1x professional batmaker and 1x professional retailer - the difference it makes is negligible. Its about having a tiny bit more enjoyment on a saturday. And appreciating the craftsmanship at the same time.

Have you ever appealed for an LBW that you know is probably not out? If so you're a hypocrite

Have you ever driven your car 1mph over the speed limit? If so you're a hypocrite.

Please don't tell the cricket police but I use an Albion helmet with an adjustable grille aswell

. Naughty naughty

Author Topic: Laminates (Read 3987 times)

Neon Cricket

Re: Laminates

alba caerulea

Re: Laminates

Neon Cricket

Re: Laminates

jonny77

Re: Laminates

alba caerulea

Re: Laminates

jonny77

Re: Laminates

Chompy9760

Re: Laminates

Chompy9760

Re: Laminates

alba caerulea

Re: Laminates

alba caerulea

Re: Laminates