Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
Advertise on CBF

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6

Author Topic: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?  (Read 5353 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

dantsw13

  • Club Cricketer
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2024, 11:19:39 AM »

I was in my local independent cricket shop last season chatting. A bloke came in who was going to play a 1 off game on the weekend. He spent thousands on top quality gear, despite the recommendation of the shop. He was on 5he phone to “a mate who knows what he’s talking about” who’s only advice was “get a kookaburra - they’re good bats” so there’s definitely more money than sense out there.

On the other hand my club operates a policy of second hand kit that anyone can donate to and anyone can take, so that money isn’t a barrier to the game.

Logged

Jimbo

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3250
  • Trade Count: (+1)
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2024, 11:44:28 AM »

I was in my local independent cricket shop last season chatting. A bloke came in who was going to play a 1 off game on the weekend. He spent thousands on top quality gear, despite the recommendation of the shop. He was on 5he phone to “a mate who knows what he’s talking about” who’s only advice was “get a kookaburra - they’re good bats” so there’s definitely more money than sense out there.

On the other hand my club operates a policy of second hand kit that anyone can donate to and anyone can take, so that money isn’t a barrier to the game.

If these folk keep cricket shops and batmakers in business then have at it.

I've put a fair bit of effort into finding decent quality kit for my club's team kitbags over the years, always a bit surprised when teams with money for overseas/paid players don't have something I'd consider a necessity.
Logged

thebigginge

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2024, 02:31:47 PM »

This has been an interesting read.

For what it's worth.......you can produce all the timber you want, density is naturally occuring and I can and have processed and graded 1000s of pieces at a time to get maybe 20/30 low density bits of wood.

We all have to make do with what is produced. Some years you can have a high yield of low grades, other years high density, and we haven't really even started on the fluctuating handle weight.

As a bat maker you do the best you can with what you have depending on your market. For some that will be gauge fillers at any weight, for others that will be reduced dimensions as long as it doesn't finish over 2.9.

We would all love for every piece of wood to be perfect, but it just isn't and never will be.

😁👍

Logged

edge

  • Moderator
  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4876
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2024, 04:18:30 PM »

I had a recent visit to Serious Cricket and whilst in there couldn’t resist checking out the new bats.
Plenty of choice by all the big brands available in there in various grades and weights.
But the bats all had one thing very much trending in common. Skinny handles and weight defying pickups.
From Salix to GN to kook, the bats all felt ridiculously light. Too light really! Ive never been one to complain of a bat being too light but I was. 2,8-2,10 all feeling like 2,6. I couldnt believe it. So I tried some 2,12s, these felt a bit more like my own 2,8s but still felt ridiculously light.
I always thought I wanted a 2,10 bat to feel 2,7. Now that I’ve actually experienced it I cant get my head around it and actually don’t like it. Im starting to wonder of ive conned myself all along and actually want a 2,7 to feel 2,10.
I thought handles last year were skinny but theyve gone even thinner this year. The bats seem long and lanky in the hands.
Ive said over the years that there is a noticeable bat revolution going on to move more and more to a baseball style bat eventually. And this is a massive move towards a baseball style bat even more. Anyone else amazed by this years bats?
This just reads like you've been picking up Kookaburras circa 10-12 years ago...

What does actually seem different, anecdotally at any rate, is shops refusing to take heavier bats these days. Combined with the fact that shapes have converged a lot over the last few years and even quite a well stocked shop can not offer a great deal of choice to a player who likes something other than a light duckbill style bat. I get that it's a lot more of a punt for a retailer to take stock that's outside of the accepted norm, but if a shop doesn't offer a good range of choice then why go there instead of online?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2024, 04:21:13 PM by edge »
Logged
HS: 156, BB: 7-20

KettonJake

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 790
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2024, 04:20:18 PM »

To be honest this just reads like you've been picking up Kookaburras circa 10-12 years ago...

I thought this when i first saw the thread pop up.
Logged
The artist formerly known as Vitas Cricket
Durant Cricket www.durantcricket.co.uk
jacob@durantcricket.co.uk

Purist90

  • Club Cricketer
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 89
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2024, 05:22:38 PM »

This just reads like you've been picking up Kookaburras circa 10-12 years ago...

What does actually seem different, anecdotally at any rate, is shops refusing to take heavier bats these days. Combined with the fact that shapes have converged a lot over the last few years and even quite a well stocked shop can not offer a great deal of choice to a player who likes something other than a light duckbill style bat. I get that it's a lot more of a punt for a retailer to take stock that's outside of the accepted norm, but if a shop doesn't offer a good range of choice then why go there instead of online?

Yes I can see how it might read that way. Oops!
But I was comparing my browsing from 2022 & 2023, to this January 2024.
And I’m very surprised how different the bats are in such a short space of time. Especially if Salix are joining the trend with a new standard too.
My initial thoughts with such a thin handle on bats with thick edges is how long are these bats meant to last??
And are we happy about the splice end of the bat being 1/2 inch narrower than the toe end?
Bat handles used to be 40mm give or take, now I think they are more like 28mm. All for what? Because a sponsored player who gets 12 bats a tour wanted it in the name of ‘bat speed’. Well you can keep your ‘players’ bat for the players. I can’t see how they will last a summer. Maybe that’s the idea of them.
The cricket bat is quickly changing and I wonder where they are heading. Longer handles, narrower widths, thicker spines. The bat in 5 years time could very much look like a square baseball bat very similar to the Mongoose. Im guessing next year shoulders may not be a thing on a bat anymore. What do you all think??
Logged

SOULMAN1012

  • Forum Legend
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6821
  • Trade Count: (+27)
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2024, 07:24:57 PM »

This must be one of the few posts iv seen that seems to believe that the modern shop retail scale weight obsessed bats pick up well. The one think iv noticed is that very few bats seem to generally pick up well these days that have the thin handles. Couple this with quite often majority of ranges having a mid/low to low swell and to me most are just ok. That’s just my view and pick up is very subjective anyway.

As for the bits about smaller bat makers getting cast offs, or the willow being of a lower level that others I don’t buy into that at all. Off the top of the my head the best few bats that’s have come through my workshop over the last few years for work and refurbs etc was one from Red Ink and one from another small shaper but I don’t know tbh where his willow came from and seem some shockers from some bigger brands that have access to more of the market and do more. More so in what Is sold as top grade in both looks and performance.

Fact is the price now is just silly. Iv been going 5 years now and a G3 partmades is now twice what it was then and seen a larger increase in G3 and G2 clefts, part mades what ever I buy.  It’s a tough time for the smaller guys as the big brands have bats in the £120-£160 mark like the signature, GN 200 models 3 stars that generally are decent all the time and then our entry point now is around £220-£250. The importers can get very cheap bats and have great mark ups, and  it’s a struggle to try and enter retail as you need to have the RRP to be able to get the mark up trade need and want but means the bat maker doesn’t make sweet FA from the transaction either.

And as for the forum supporting small bat makers you just have to look at the amount that tried and left, tried and got sick of the all the abuse, tried and for what ever reason are not about or tried and got so little input it’s not worth it and we now have a custom bat forum without a single bat maker that’s a sponsor paid or free what ever that contributes, hardly any interaction from the retailers. Shame really


Logged

Thamesvalley

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 665
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2024, 08:28:34 PM »

I don’t know where forum users buy their bats from as they tend to be very picky

I personally will not buy any more bats if the trend of thinner handles and thinner shoulders

I highlighted this year how Gm handles had thinned out, the Gm owner said they had not but they had and the bats had become less wide , not all but some of them

I would rather buy a 2.10 which is full not the 40mm edges 37 is more than sufficient and it be full width
Logged

The Cricket Boutique

Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2024, 12:50:11 PM »

The fact that willow prices have doubled within the last 2 years has driven up the cost of things and now you're paying over £450 with most brands for a G1 bat.

5 years ago you could get a G2 for 200 but that now closer to 300. Cost of things has gone up regardless of the cricket market, I had an email from Sports Direct last night advertising the new Nike footy boots...£275 for the top-of-the-range option!!! Ridiculous for a man-made product compared to a cricket bat where the raw material is finite and hugely in demand.

The forum has changed over the years as I've been on here as a member via my @Ayrtek Cricket account since 2009 but prob longer under my own name. As mentioned earlier kit sales used to be rife on here and brands could shift 5-6 bats with ease. The change in the forum came and people were looking to offload used or unwanted kit that drove sponsors away as members expected bats at cost price or below from us. Most of the bat makers were doing it outside of work hours so time in front of a PC/phone was limited in terms of being able to offer input into the forum.

I took the plunge and bought TCB last Nov to enable me to work with some forum brands and champion their work by stocking and promoting them on social channels. Having seen the likes of Vitas Cricket and IJC work with the forum members previously to source/supply and offer members products. I've got to admit that uptake from people on here has been very low which is a real shame, but fully accept Im not going to set about selling products just above trade prices simply to gain a sell as its the margins that will enable me to progress as a business and reinvest in new products/brands to offer.

Logged
English Willow, Handmade Cricket Bats. www.thecricketboutique.co.uk / @thecricketbtq / facebook.com/thecricketboutique/

Red Ink Cricket

  • Forum Sponsor
  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3293
  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Red Ink Cricket
    • Red Ink Cricket
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2024, 04:18:46 PM »

This must be one of the few posts iv seen that seems to believe that the modern shop retail scale weight obsessed bats pick up well. The one think iv noticed is that very few bats seem to generally pick up well these days that have the thin handles. Couple this with quite often majority of ranges having a mid/low to low swell and to me most are just ok. That’s just my view and pick up is very subjective anyway.

As for the bits about smaller bat makers getting cast offs, or the willow being of a lower level that others I don’t buy into that at all. Off the top of the my head the best few bats that’s have come through my workshop over the last few years for work and refurbs etc was one from Red Ink and one from another small shaper but I don’t know tbh where his willow came from and seem some shockers from some bigger brands that have access to more of the market and do more. More so in what Is sold as top grade in both looks and performance.

Fact is the price now is just silly. Iv been going 5 years now and a G3 partmades is now twice what it was then and seen a larger increase in G3 and G2 clefts, part mades what ever I buy.  It’s a tough time for the smaller guys as the big brands have bats in the £120-£160 mark like the signature, GN 200 models 3 stars that generally are decent all the time and then our entry point now is around £220-£250. The importers can get very cheap bats and have great mark ups, and  it’s a struggle to try and enter retail as you need to have the RRP to be able to get the mark up trade need and want but means the bat maker doesn’t make sweet FA from the transaction either.

And as for the forum supporting small bat makers you just have to look at the amount that tried and left, tried and got sick of the all the abuse, tried and for what ever reason are not about or tried and got so little input it’s not worth it and we now have a custom bat forum without a single bat maker that’s a sponsor paid or free what ever that contributes, hardly any interaction from the retailers. Shame really

Appreciate the positive feedback on the Red Inker!
Logged
www.redinkcricket.co.uk
John@redinkcricket.co.uk
@red_inker

Thamesvalley

  • County 1st XI
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 665
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2024, 04:52:24 PM »

The fact that willow prices have doubled within the last 2 years has driven up the cost of things and now you're paying over £450 with most brands for a G1 bat.

5 years ago you could get a G2 for 200 but that now closer to 300. Cost of things has gone up regardless of the cricket market, I had an email from Sports Direct last night advertising the new Nike footy boots...£275 for the top-of-the-range option!!! Ridiculous for a man-made product compared to a cricket bat where the raw material is finite and hugely in demand.

The forum has changed over the years as I've been on here as a member via my @Ayrtek Cricket account since 2009 but prob longer under my own name. As mentioned earlier kit sales used to be rife on here and brands could shift 5-6 bats with ease. The change in the forum came and people were looking to offload used or unwanted kit that drove sponsors away as members expected bats at cost price or below from us. Most of the bat makers were doing it outside of work hours so time in front of a PC/phone was limited in terms of being able to offer input into the forum.

I took the plunge and bought TCB last Nov to enable me to work with some forum brands and champion their work by stocking and promoting them on social channels. Having seen the likes of Vitas Cricket and IJC work with the forum members previously to source/supply and offer members products. I've got to admit that uptake from people on here has been very low which is a real shame, but fully accept Im not going to set about selling products just above trade prices simply to gain a sell as its the margins that will enable me to progress as a business and reinvest in new products/brands to offer.


Question for you, just a thought if stock is not revolving because of higher prices

I was really surprised you had not sold the 606 aion you got ( you may have sold it now ) how do you invest in the business ?

Is it not better not to make 10 -15 -20 quid less margin still seems to be profit tjere otherwise other shops would not sell it and sell much more product

You have your own business model and it works but I don’t think forum users are gonna buy bats at prices which are the highest in retail around.. I would buy but it has to be competitive not the most expensive retail version around , doesn’t have to be the cheapest ..
Logged

Ayrtek Cricket

  • Forum Sponsor
  • International Superstar
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14749
  • Trade Count: (+53)
  • www.AyrtekCricket.com
    • Ayrtek Cricket
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2024, 05:48:08 PM »

The Aion 606 is still in stock at 155 which is 20 off of RRP or 11% which is pretty much the max id want to do whilst still making it worthwhile stocking/selling it.

As mentioned before I’d rather stay closer to the RRP’s but offer additional extras to customers if buying through TCB. So you’d get the equivalent to £50 worth of extras inc with a purchase over 150.

It amazes me some retailers sell bats that are rising in costs due to the supply chain issues of willow for a 10 margin! It’s a vicious cycle of needing to sell more bats to make more money to pay for overheads/wages which means more willow is needed to make them which as we keep banging on about is in demand so prices are increasing.

Sell closer to RRP, make more margin so less stress on the supply chain and prices will plateau out so everyone wins.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2024, 05:52:12 PM by Ayrtek Cricket »
Logged

InternalTraining

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4792
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2024, 07:32:20 PM »

The forum has changed over the years as I've been on here as a member via my @Ayrtek Cricket account since 2009 but prob longer under my own name. As mentioned earlier kit sales used to be rife on here and brands could shift 5-6 bats with ease. The change in the forum came and people were looking to offload used or unwanted kit that drove sponsors away as members expected bats at cost price or below from us. Most of the bat makers were doing it outside of work hours so time in front of a PC/phone was limited in terms of being able to offer input into the forum.

I will offer a different point-of-view.

As someone who bought a lot of kit (bats, accessories) from the forum bat makers, I had very specific requirements both in terms of quality and price. I purchased some bats that were discounted but for most, I paid the asking price -  whatever the custom bat maker wanted. I was looking for quality. Bats that pinged. Bats that were made well. prior to joining the forum, I had had some very bad experiences with bats I bought earlier in my club cricketing days and my goal was to avoid all the headaches/frustrations that results from a poor purchase. Those poor purchases wasted a lot of my time. That's what brought me to the forum - good (or great) bats at a good price. Not all bats I purchased thru the forum bat makers were great. Some were really bad. But most were very good. The forum also introduced me to other bat makers - established names like Keely etc. and even GN top tier stuff made in AUS. Over all, in terms of cost averaging, I did not come out ahead but I ended with a lot of great (above average) bats.

What are some of the lessons I learned?

1. For a clubbie, especially a newbie clubbie, a well made G3 (or a price discounted G2) is a very good option. GM with their 606 and above have that market down pat. There is an area where custom bat makers could offer value to bat buyers thru the forum.

2.  Unless, a batter has had a few years of experience using bats, they have no business customizing their own bat. I made that mistake and I ended up designing really poor bats. Funnily enough, the shapes that did wonders for me were stock shapes and I stuck them for many seasons and many sixes (and runs :D ).

3. A custom bat maker is well within their rights to tell a customer that their ideas are bad and that shape wouldn't work. To a degree, Aldred does that which, in hindsight, is a good thing for the customer/buyer.

4. Good bats are good bats no matter where they come from. My favorite comes from a big brand. My second favorite comes from a big name bat maker, the shape was commercially available and I had him make me several copies. Many sixes. :D Both more expensive than average but worth every penny!

5. More than anything, a batter's physiology determines which weight and shape bat they can swing well. I have two but tried many and settled for the same two no matter which bat maker. The science of bat shape/weight etc. is too complicated for an average club players to comprehend. Bat makers don't have the time nor the energy to explain every nuance which is understandable. Bat buyers must try different shapes until they find the shape and weight that works for them. After that, it doesn't matter which bat maker or corporate brand makes that shape. If you are going to be in the game of cricket for many years, trial-and-error is the best teacher in determining the type of bat that works for an individual.

6. The second best way of finding a great bat is to have a pro/semi-pro pick a bat for you. :D This becomes easier when a pro/semi-pro is hunting for a bat himself. Friends. Friends of friends. Family network. All are good ways of hunting down a great bat at a great price. My first great was picked by someone else and was not made by a custom bat maker.

7. Work with a custom bat maker to replicate a bat EXACTLY to the spec. as you prefer. That is the best way of utilizing the skills of a custom bat maker. If you have direct access to a shop, then it is easier to work with a custom bat maker. If you are an overseas buyer, it is very hard. For someone who bought bats from 3 continents, I wish I could walk into a shop and wave a bat or different shapes /weights before deciding on one.

8. Many will disagree with this but cost averaging will not work for you if you are buying from custom bat makers. You will end up paying more and may not get the results you seek. I know this is harsh but this was my experience. What is the value of a custom made bat in tangible/practical sense? You can get a bat with great ping for much less if you are buying in India. GM makes bats that offer incredible value at 505/606 levels for a weekend warrior/clubbie.  What is the value proposition of a custom bat v/s a commercially made bat?

9. Other problem with this type of a business model is that your market is local and limited. Unless someone walk into a shop, it'd take a big risk taker to make an internet purchase. Ultimately, custom bat makers are catering to local/smaller markets. For an overseas buyer, bat maker needs to understand their customers. What are their needs? Do they even like to oil and knock their bat? Do they have time for it? Do they perform seasonal ritual of sanding/oiling a bat after season's end? I know people who just want a bat to perform without extensive knocking. They don't have time to oil a bat nor do they know how to oil a bat. For them a cricket bat is no different than a tennis racquet or a golf club. Use it and put it away - that's all they care about. Is the risk of buying a product sight unseen (from an overseas custom bat maker) worth the risk of marginal performance gains over a popular brand like GN/CA/GM?

10. People leave the market and the forum because value is else where. To attract a buyer and make them return, you have to offer them value. Simple. Everybody would agree that cricket participation/market size is dwindling everywhere except for India (and Indian diaspora) . I have said this before (you can search my old posts :) ) that cricket equipment is not easy to buy or maintain. Cricket is a hard sport to play as gear is NOT user friendly. Prices are high. In the age of shorter attention spans (tik tok, video games), who wants to toil in cold weather or burning sun for house hours when cheaper, more entertaining, and less physically demanding options are available. If you only want the purists and passionate ones, you will find yourself with a very small pool of buyers. This is the reality.

What is the value of the forum then? Information. It made me an informed buyer. It helped facilitate some great contacts. I bought a bat that was made for Aaron Finch and what a great bat it is! I still haven't used it because it is just too nice. :D This is also a place where bat makers can share their thoughts about the market and have open discussions like this one. This forum is a great marketing tool. It may not be a great market place though. Good product will attract buyers. Laver and Wood is a prime example of that. They are located in NZ but ship bats all over the world.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2024, 07:37:22 PM by InternalTraining »
Logged

SD

  • International Captain
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1391
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2024, 08:32:53 PM »

I certainly wouldn't agree that the cricket playing pool is dwindling in England. Particularly at junior level, a look around the league structures makes it clear that there is a depth that didn't exist 20 years ago. 

There are also far more people willing to spend money on it as a hoby.  The Club kit bag doesn't even exist for the main at junior level let alone for adults. There has never been more people making a living running club coaching sessions and offering 1-2-1 coaching. The idea of club sides offering branded teamwear would have seemed ridiculous 30 years ago (go back to the 90s, and England players supplied their own trousers).

The trend as I see it is that the Internet has opened up choice that didn't exist when you were limited to whatever your local dealer stocked.
Logged

InternalTraining

  • World Cup Winner
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4792
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Is 2024 The Year Of The Bat Revolution?
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2024, 10:28:37 PM »

The trend as I see it is that the Internet has opened up choice that didn't exist when you were limited to whatever your local dealer stocked.

IIRC , we are discussing internet sales for custom bats. So, technically, if what you are saying is true, people wouldn't be complaining about reduced sales. Rising tide lifts all boats but that's not the case here is it?

Regarding growing popularity of cricket, that's nice to read/hear.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6
 

Advertise on CBF