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General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: cricket-master on December 31, 2008, 06:08:45 PM
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from cricinfo
The Daily Telegraph have reported that Kevin Pietersen, the England captain, has called emergency talks with the ECB over the role of coach Peter Moores.
It is the believed the two are finding it increasingly difficult to work together after a poor series of results, beginning with the Stanford Super Series in Antigua followed by a 5-0 one-day defeat in India and the loss of the Test series, although England's performance in that was far more credible.
The paper said that Pietersen has asked to speak with Giles Clarke, the ECB chairman, when he returns from holiday.
When Pietersen took over the captaincy from Michael Vaughan in August he had a long discussion with Moores and at the time it was understood that he had reservations about working alongside him.
England have failed to develop under Moores, who took over from Duncan Fletcher following the 2007 World Cup. They have slipped down the Test rankings and although there have been notable one-day successes against India, Sri Lanka and South Africa the limited-overs team remains inconsistent and the next World Cup is just two years away.
Under Moores the only Test series England have won have been against West Indies and New Zealand. During the eight years Fletcher was in charge they lost just one home series - against Australia in 2001 - but since 2007 have been beaten by both India and South Africa.
However, of most pressing concern for the ECB if the relationship has reached breaking point would be forthcoming tour of West Indies and the Ashes. England depart for the Caribbean on January 21 for four Tests, a Twenty20 international and five ODIs. That is followed by a return series against West Indies in May before the Twenty20 World Cup and then the Ashes in July and August.
what do you think?
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interesting to see if any or how much of this is true...
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I have always said why didnt we try and get Tom Moody as our coach. We have messed around with coaches and we replace them time and time again! >:(
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this could be a disaster for the English team. Maybe a psychological edge the Aussies were looking/praying for before the Ashes
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I remain unconvinced by Moores - as nice as he seems to come across - I think we seem to have gone backwards under him and lack that 'edge', which certainly wouldn't suit us well going into the ashes.
Some confused selections, some players seemingly undroppable and some real vague soundbites after poor defeats.
I say get some Aussie / Saffer grit into the coaching team and harden up a bit - those who might not like it (Harmy, Monty or Belly) can shape up or ship out. You won't beat these Aussies by being decent guys who perform well sporadically or when playing near their families.
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Anyone got any ideas as to who may replace Moores, if he is to go! (which i hope) :-X
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Aussie or South African coach.
Someone like Ian Botham could get some mental toughness in the team and convey the message that the ECB means business.
I have never seen Moores as a strategist or a good planner.
You need a coach who can come up with solutions (especially after a poor series), think a step ahead of the opposition and works dispassionately when it comes to selection and grooming.
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Alot of people mentioned tom moody last time round but he didnt seem to get a look in! I think ashley giles will at some point end up coach, currently warwickshire coach and england selector theres only one place this can lead... king of spain as head coach!
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I'd bring in an over large feline boss man type person, with a cake win bonus and no litter tray loss penalty. Watch us race up the tables and his bat collection grow...
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Get Rod Marsh. Your academy coach over there. if you want grit and edge he would be the best man for it.
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Next coach of England should be Steve Rixon.
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Alot of people mentioned tom moody last time round but he didnt seem to get a look in! I think ashley giles will at some point end up coach, currently warwickshire coach and england selector theres only one place this can lead... king of spain as head coach!
because he was already heading back o australia to become a state coach
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Moores needs more time
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i went on cricinfo again today in the article above they have added more reports
Kevin Pietersen, the England captain, has sought emergency talks with the ECB over the role of coach Peter Moores, according to reports in the English media. Pietersen, who is currently on holiday, has asked to speak with Giles Clarke, the ECB chairman, when he returns.
Newspaper reports suggest captain and coach are finding it increasingly difficult to work together after a poor series of results, beginning with the Stanford Super Series in Antigua followed by a 5-0 one-day defeat in India and the loss of the Test series, although England's performance in that was far more credible.
When Pietersen took over the captaincy from Michael Vaughan in August he had a long discussion with Moores and at the time it was understood that he had reservations about working alongside him.
The Daily Mail reported that the immediate cause of the problem was the decision by the selectors on Monday to not include Vaughan in the touring party to the Caribbean. It said Pietersen had asked for Vaughan's inclusion and had left on his holiday believing he would have his way but Moores won over the selectors at the meeting.
According to the Guardian, however, the ECB played down the reports that Pietersen had called for talks with Clarke. The paper quoted sources in the ECB saying, "there is a review after every tour and this one [India] is no different". It also points out that differences between Pietersen and Moores would be an immediate headache for Hugh Morris, managing director of England cricket, and not for Clarke.
England have failed to develop under Moores, who took over from Duncan Fletcher following the 2007 World Cup. They have slipped down the Test rankings and although there have been notable one-day successes against India, Sri Lanka and South Africa the limited-overs team remains inconsistent and the next World Cup is just two years away.
Under Moores the only Test series England have won have been against West Indies and New Zealand. During the eight years Fletcher was in charge they lost just one home series - against Australia in 2001 - but since 2007 have been beaten by both India and South Africa.
However, of most pressing concern for the ECB if the relationship has reached breaking point would be forthcoming tour of West Indies and the Ashes. England depart for the Caribbean on January 21 for four Tests, a Twenty20 international and five ODIs. That is followed by a return series against West Indies in May before the Twenty20 World Cup and then the Ashes in July and August.
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i have often wondered when you have had greats like botham, boycott, gower why havent we utilised them.
Shane warne - just retired has been snapped up by CA. Allan Donald now works for CSA, Javed Miandad for the PCB. Who the (no swearing please) is peter moores??? U gotta be tough to win and this guy comes across as being to much of a nice guy. i know im being controversial here. but sometimes u gotta bite the bullet.
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i have often wondered when you have had greats like botham, boycott, gower why havent we utilised them.
Shane warne - just retired has been snapped up by CA. Allan Donald now works for CSA, Javed Miandad for the PCB. Who the fcuk is peter moores??? U gotta be tough to win and this guy comes across as being to much of a nice guy. i know im being controversial here. but sometimes u gotta bite the bullet.
the best players dont make the best coaches, shane warne described coach's as something you ride to the ground on, and now he is going to be doing the job!
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As said earlier we need a hard nut aussie or saffa who will wake our players up at 4am in order to practice catching. We need someone who is comitted - in my opinion Moores is a bit of a yes man and scared to make any big decisions!
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Who actually knows Moores himself? anyone? then why are you passing judgment on a proven coach who has done as much as any domestic coach?
Pietersen is a good batsman, thats it, he has not done enough as captain to decide if he is cut out for it or not. Who knows what their relationship is anyway. Lets get back to what we should be doing and bash the Aussies as they slide down to our level. Who's with me?
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Haha I agree Mike, but I still don't think they are quite at England's level yet, they are still in front, which is embarrassing for an English side. The selection needs sorting, other wise we're in for a drubbing against a team that is on the decline.
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i am with mike, interesting to see nielsen has signed a new contract extension despite whats been happening? i thought some of blame might have been assigned to him rather than just ricky ponting and some of the players
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Who actually knows Moores himself? anyone? then why are you passing judgment on a proven coach who has done as much as any domestic coach?
Pietersen is a good batsman, thats it, he has not done enough as captain to decide if he is cut out for it or not. Who knows what their relationship is anyway. Lets get back to what we should be doing and bash the Aussies as they slide down to our level. Who's with me?
I'm not passing comment on Moores the individual, merely my opinion on his results and my perception of his toughness and selection policy (and here Miller must take some responsibility).
Mike - do you feel we have been ruthless enough and consistant enough in selection (Pattinson, Bell, Colly)?
Also, how do you feel about the apologist comments and excuses in the press from them about our performances when having received a good drubbing?
Do you think we are tough enough mentally and in tactics to beat the Aussies right now?
However, I will assume that you have the ear of the chairman of selectors, and I will accept your offer of a coaching post. I will immediately re-assign Otis Gibson to limbo dancing training, Andy Flower will be put in charge of the BBQ and Ashley Giles can be in charge of waste management. I will then be in charge of all batting, bowling and catering. I'll stick a rocket up that miserable lanky geordie's rear-end too!
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Tubby Tabby,
Firstly, why do such a thing to Uncle Richard, its not his fault he lives up north and how do you know hes tall?
Secondly, yes it bloody annoys me when we faff around with selection and are not bolder in choice and tactics, but that is the English way is it not? Not everyone is a stick person some and carrots. Mentally we could turn good or bad in an instant, we do miss Fletch's belief and I'm no fan of his. All we need to do is believe we can win, we have the talent.
Thirdly, Andy would cook up a Brai rather than a BBQ, that is so Aussie and therefore out of fashion now...
Lastly, When, not if you take the reigns I would ask for the dropping of Colly and a replacement who can bish, bosh and bash the ball to all parts of the park and is an agile slip too but can also help out with the team bat selection and signwrite the team bus.
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I couldn't spell Brai properly..............................
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Player power gone way too far, facts are Michael Vaughan should have retired, is struggling making anything over 20, not played in months yet Pietersen wants his friend on the tour. Forget players who are scoring hundreds and trying to break into the side, jobs for the boys once more, the same reason Harmison who is now finished was dropped is the same reason Vaughan wasnt picked - dead wood.
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I agree Skippy. Pietersen is having a strop simply because Vaughan wasn't picked, which I believe was the correct decision, and so do many others.
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But the question is about the Ashes Arthur- West Indies are a dud opposition- lets face it. Why not let Vaughan get into form against quick but inaccurate bowling and hope to have him with runs under his belt for the Ashes? If he doesn't score against West Indies, he has no hope, and it is an easy choice for the selectors coming up to the Ashes. This would have been a hit or miss scenario for Vaughan, but I still have a feeling that he will be in that Ashes squad, despite form at International level. I would have felt sorry for Shah had he been left out (what more has he to do!) but Vaughan has to travel, I mean the guy is England's best batsmen when in touch.
Bell's inclusion is puzzling, I wonder what he has been chosen for- continuity, potential, previous series? I don't know, but it hasn't been on form or runs, that's for sure! This selection policy is really holding a talented side back, because at the minute, you are two batsmen down with Collingwood (Mr. get a hundred when I am one match away from the axe!) and Bell (The guy could be a player by 2012 and did get a hundred against SA 6 months ago!!)
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Adam, surely you could say the same thing about Bell as well as Vaughan, he has to go to get back into form, ready for the Ashes, and Bell has had more cricket, therefore the selectors believe he is nearer to form maybe? Unfortunately, this means Bell will play the Tests, and Shah won't get a look in at 3, which I think is unfair. I do agree about Collingwood, however, why not drop him and play Shah at 6, as Mike has suggested previously. Ok Colly may be a very good fielder, but Shah is also handy and is by far the more in form of the two. Along with the fact that Collingwood's bowling has not been used recently. I am a great fan of Bell and Shah, Bell has this series to impress me with his current form however, otherwise my view as him at number 3 for the Ashes may change.
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He hasn't got the previous record against Australia which Vaughan clearly has though has he? I disagree with your point that players like Bell should use the International season to get back into form, when he has been playing cricket for the last 2 months, unlike Vaughan, who is just lacking a bit of match practice- I don't think Vaughan is out of form (this may sound silly, but hear me out) as in the CC innings I have seen him (even when he has failed), he has been getting starts, playing some lovely drives. Bell has a few big flaws in his technique, and the International stage isn't where he should be correcting them. His ODI place is up for grabs, that's one thing for sure.
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Bell doesn't have many technique flaws, he often gets "pretty" 20s, which I think is what you are suggesting Vaughan was doing in the CC? Bell has one of the better techniques in the English team I think. As for Vaughan, why is he not going to New Zealand with the Lions? Do they only play limited overs games? And why has he not done what Strauss did last year, go to NZ or Aus, and play grade/state cricket out there? That would get him back into form and give him match practice, surely?
As another point, why are they showing no faith in Simon Jones, the bowler who showed the Aussies up in 2005? Especially after a good season at Worcs, as well as England's current bowling attack having trouble. He isn't with the Lions, either. It asks the question whether England's selectors are ever going to change their minds.
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The way the WI side is going it is certainly not a "Dud" side. They have some top bowlers and batsmen. Will give ENG a run for their money.
It's not going to be a cake walk for ENG......
They better gear-up and put a fight (and win) the series as this will help them morally when they clash with the Aussies.
P.S.: India's series win against the Aussies totally changed the way the Indian camp /players were thinking and performing. Surely the ENG team was not a "Dud" team to loose 5-0. Even Bangladesh would have one atleast one match.
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Maybe Dud is too strong but they are a very weak side.
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Bell doesn't have many technique flaws, he often gets "pretty" 20s, which I think is what you are suggesting Vaughan was doing in the CC? Bell has one of the better techniques in the English team I think. As for Vaughan, why is he not going to New Zealand with the Lions? Do they only play limited overs games? And why has he not done what Strauss did last year, go to NZ or Aus, and play grade/state cricket out there? That would get him back into form and give him match practice, surely?
As another point, why are they showing no faith in Simon Jones, the bowler who showed the Aussies up in 2005? Especially after a good season at Worcs, as well as England's current bowling attack having trouble. He isn't with the Lions, either. It asks the question whether England's selectors are ever going to change their minds.
simon jones is still recovering from another post season knee operation, i dont think he is even running yet!
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Oh ok, wasn't aware of that, I stopped paying particular attention when he left beloved Glamorgan! But the West Indies have impressed recently, but they should, in theory, be too weak for England, but noone knows with the current English side, anything can happen.
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Maybe Windies will be a good measure of where we are. If we beat them relatively easily, then we might just about be able to keep ourselves associated with the top 3 teams - lose or draw and it confirms that we are definitely in decline and perhaps then they will get rid of Moores.
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The Bell situation isn't helped by the fact that his average at 3 is just over 30 but his average at 5-6 is 50. Dropping Collingwood, moving either Vaughan or Shah to 3 and Bell sliding down to 5 would definitely improve the batting lineup, harsh though it may be on Collingwood
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Why do you say harsh Ed? What has warranted him a place? His century every other series, after a string of low scores?
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Why do you say harsh Ed? What has warranted him a place? His century every other series, after a string of low scores?
He maintained a higher average than Cook, Bell, Vaughan and Flintoff in 2008 as well as taking 14 catches so he has contributed more than others recently
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To be fair though, Vaughan's poor form was acted on and Flintoff in my view a Bowler who can bat a bit, nothing more. As for Cook and Bell, they have also had poor seasons but they supposedly have potential to improve, and to be honest I can see where they are coming from, however Collingwood is getting on, he isn't really going to improve much if we are honest. Someone like Shah, Key (obviously elsewhere in lineup), Denly, Vaughan or Rashid (moreso as an all-rounder) could score more runs and apart from in Vaughan's case, are maybe on the younger side so the potential is there. I personally wouldn't have Bell or Collingwood in the team. This is debatable, but Cook has been worked out IMO, time for him to work hard at his game during the county season.
The players I mentioned above, along with James Foster, Naps in ODI's, Morgan, Malan, Joyce etc can't be far away.
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As I said, I agree that he should be dropped from the side, I just wanted to point out that he has underperformed no more than others in the side.
Anyway, Pietersen throwing his weight around is infuriating, this sort of behaviour makes it seem as though he thinks that he's bigger than the team
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Bell at 3 just doesn't fill me with confidence at all.
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a twist may be kp will get the
have a read from crcifo
In a surprise development, the ECB have called an emergency board meeting to discuss the rift between Kevin Pietersen and Peter Moores.
Cricinfo understands that the 12-man board met by teleconference on Tuesday night, raising the possibility that Pietersen, who had not been due back from his holiday in Africa until Thursday, may pay the price for his outspoken views on the future direction of the England team.
Research conducted by the ECB in the last few days suggests that Pietersen does not have the steadfast support of his team-mates or the back-room staff. The majority of the England support staff are understood to be supportive of Moores while most of the players are underwhelmed by Pietersen's dramatic intervention, as Steve Harmison demonstrated with his ambivalent comments on Tuesday.
There is also some sympathy towards Moores who, it is understood, was given the authority to select the England captain when Paul Collingwood and Michael Vaughan resigned, and there are those within the set-up who feel that Pietersen has betrayed the coach's trust.
Attitudes towards Pietersen also appear to be hardening at board level. While few are completely convinced by Moores, they do not like the manner in which the captain has attempted to dictate events. As one board member told Cricinfo: "People who want to keep their jobs don't issue ultimatums. At this stage any outcome is possible."
Whether Moores' position is salvageable remains highly debatable, however. There has been little evidence of progress under his tenure and his credibility may now be damaged beyond repair. A double departure - Pietersen and Moores - is a growing possibility.
Meanwhile, the identity of Moores' immediate successor as coach has been shrouded in further confusion, after Warwickshire warned they may not necessarily keep Ashley Giles's job as the county's director of cricket open, should he be asked to fulfil a role as "stop-gap" coach in the Caribbean.
Though Warwickshire will not stand in GIles's way if he is offered the job, his involvement in the West Indies would rule him out of any involvement in Warwickshire's pre-season plans and the club want to minimise disruption in the dressing-room. Furthermore, it is feared that Giles could recruit Allan Donald - currently Warwickshire's first-team coach - to help him in the Caribbean.