Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Companies => Off-the-shelf companies => Puma => Topic started by: slcric on April 21, 2011, 06:47:49 AM
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i picked up a Puma calibre 3000 today at training and it definitely was more pingy than any other bat.Puma bats not only feel light and very pingy they also LOOK light..Does puma do anything special that other makers doesn't do to their bats? can a custom made bat from a forum member come out better than a puma?
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How do u measure the bat to make the statement that it's better than any other bat then?
I'd hope a custom bat on here performed better than a mid range puma otherwise puma would have cornered the Market and we should all give up now!
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And are you basing that judgement on just using one puma?
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You've effectively used one Puma bat and used that to judge all of Puma's bats.
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The bar must have been set very low here. The 3000 may well have been a good bat but if you were to use say a 5000, 6000 or any of the custom made premium brands here I think the 3000 would quickly be blow-out of the water. The only thing I've ever noticed from top end puma bats and robs blue room is the little extra press he does by hand to but you won't get that on a 3000 as they are manufactured in India.
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PW88, why couldn't an Indian made puma 3000 be just as good if not better than a rob pack made puma 5000 or 6000?
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It's very unlikely due to pressing. You'll get the odd one or two that behave well but Rob pack made ones are likely to be consistently better pressed.
I've not used a midrange bat that has been as good as my custom instinct and the one puma I have used in the nets was distinctly average (evolution 3000).
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If you have found a good 3000 then there is no reason why it won't be better than the top of the range, it will be graded lower on looks, not performance. I've been to the Indian factory and seen them made, the finish I saw there and here on Vendetta 3000's is far better than Rob can do, better than any UK bat sander and finisher, very very impressive. As for the pressing I would say it is not as consistent as the UK factory where Puma's are made but there is no reason to doubt that some will be absolute screamers from India, I saw a Slazenger V500 County last week at 2.10 finished which was huge and felt perfect for me, it came from the same place and they are catching up fast.
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I visited kg and robinsons in india and they said that their bats are all hand pressed.
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If you have found a good 3000 then there is no reason why it won't be better than the top of the range, it will be graded lower on looks, not performance. I've been to the Indian factory and seen them made, the finish I saw there and here on Vendetta 3000's is far better than Rob can do, better than any UK bat sander and finisher, very very impressive. As for the pressing I would say it is not as consistent as the UK factory where Puma's are made but there is no reason to doubt that some will be absolute screamers from India, I saw a Slazenger V500 County last week at 2.10 finished which was huge and felt perfect for me, it came from the same place and they are catching up fast.
I'm sorry can I just clear a few things up here. Yes the indian made bats are good and they are obviously coming along quickly, of that i have no doubt and i didnt mean to discount any of the guys putting the work in to produce those bats. But mike...
Rob is not just a sander and finisher so please don't disregard the work he does on a daily basis, I'm sure he could crack plenty more bats out if he was just a finisher as you said. We've been over this one before a while back if I remember rightly. I can't imagine you'd say the same about mr keeley would you?? And as for robs finishing I doubt a brand like puma would be contracting him for their top line bats if his finishing wasn't up to scratch.
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PW, your commitment to the cause is fine, I understand.
What do you think of the method used by the Indian factory to press compared to the way Tim presses?
Have you any thoughts on Tim's set up compared to the Indian one?
What in your view makes a great finish?
Do you believe that the lower graded bats are graded on performance?
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This isn't about tims pressing or the Indian setups so please don't go off subject.
You have just attempted to publicly disparage a genuine bat makers reputation and it isn't the first time you have done so. I'm confident if you and Rob had some form of working relationship your personal and professional opinion of what he does would differ greatly.
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I will comment on what I know rather than what someone told me.
My comments about the 3000 are as follows,
Why would an Indian bat not be as good as an English bat?
Why would the finish not be as good?
When I state that it was better finished than Rob's, who does do the finishing for Puma I believe and that it is better finished than any other sander/finisher in the country including Andrew Kember and others it is because I am talking about the people who finish bats, not make them. It would be better than Newbery bats, Tim does not finish any bats himself but he has done for me in the past and it is better than he could do.
Why is that offensive? Do you have a blind belief that Rob is a God?
And my questions about set ups were based on the fact that I am opinionated but that is based on knowing a little bit about what goes on in bat making. You rely on being told things, make your own mind up by using your eyes.
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What I know is what I have seen. It may not be as much as you but i dont make my living from the industry. the Indian bats I have seen don't have the quality with pressing, handles or finishing that the UK bats I've seen/used have and that's from anyone not just rob. I obviously don't have as vast a knowledge as others on here which is why I don't make out I have I just say what I see and based your commemts on previous topics Regarding Rob. Maybe I took this out of context and if that's the case then so be it but I stick by what I said
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This isn't about tims pressing or the Indian setups so please don't go off subject.
You have just attempted to publicly disparage a genuine bat makers reputation and it isn't the first time you have done so. I'm confident if you and Rob had some form of working relationship your personal and professional opinion of what he does would differ greatly.
No he hasn't mate, he said that the Indian factory can finish bats better than anyone in the UK. I must agree from what I've seen, the Puma 3000s are finished incredibly well. It's no reflection on Rob's work, or anyone's work. Just a compliment to the Indian chaps.
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Basically i think the argument is that mike is saying rob is a sander and finisher and not a bat maker like normal lol
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He is but that is not my point here.
My point is that the Puma 3000's I've seen are the best finished bats on the market. And I see no argument being made to say that this bat cannot be as good or better than one Tim has made. Apart from repeating the fact that Indian bats tend not to have the consistency of pressing.
Also PW, the handles used by Puma UK are the same as Puma India, they are made by the same Indian company, not sure why you rate them worse but maybe it is preconception?
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If rob is just a sander and finisher then every maker in the UK must be!! I wasn't referring to puma alone when I mentioned handles, but i did not know that. I was commenting on asian bats I had seen in comparison to the uk made bats. I don't know what differences there are between the two spring and 3 spring other than stiffness but the 2 seemed to be of a better quality when I saw them all together.
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Apart from Warsop who makes handles in the UK? They are all imported and some are good, some not so good.
I agree with the fact that some Asian brand use less well made handles and some do not splice well, but even those will make a great bat sometimes, just not as regularly as others.
How many people in the UK actually make bats? That is a whole other thread, but you still need to tell me why this bat is not as good???
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Mike - why are all handles imported? Is there a specific reason for this?
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Don't GM make their own handles Mike?
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guys i have made the judgement after using quite a few puma bats.I've used a vendtta,ballistic 5000,kinetic 2000 and the calibre 3000 and all the bats have been more pingy than other brands.So my question was what does puma do that other brands doesnt?i cnt find the answer because the thread is full of unnecessary stuff!
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Sorry slcric. My 'assumption' (not necessarily correct) would be the pressing. It may be harder than the other bats you have used
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Ive used a Ballistic 4000 and 3000, size 6 Evolution 4000 and harrow Iridium 5000. Two were good and two were awful so looks like you've had some luck slcric. The Ballistic 4000 and Evolution 4000 were good bats and went well but the other two were ugly planks.
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they dont do anything
the 5000 and 6000 and some 4000 are made in the uk..
everything below is made in indian.
knowing where the top puma bats come from i would say they are no more pingy than anyother bat from the same place.
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the really pingy bat i used today was a 2nd grade indian made just for the record..
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Mike - why are all handles imported? Is there a specific reason for this?
Try making one, bloody hard to do, my utter respect to the guys that do it, and also could not get over how skilled the turners are on the lathes when shaping them. When the cane is cut you get showers of sparks, it's that hard.
Don't GM make their own handles Mike?
No, they import them, they have maybe the best handle on the market with the Red/Brown rubbers in.
guys i have made the judgement after using quite a few puma bats.I've used a vendtta,ballistic 5000,kinetic 2000 and the calibre 3000 and all the bats have been more pingy than other brands.So my question was what does puma do that other brands doesnt?i cnt find the answer because the thread is full of unnecessary stuff!
It must be a good cleft, pressed well, no more to it than that.
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the really pingy bat i used today was a 2nd grade indian made just for the record..
You probably just dropped on a very well pressed bat mate. Use it, don't question it :)
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some people stop needing to have a hang up about indian bats yes there more inconsistant in quality than the uk bats but most are half the price.
Handle quality is a source and so is Pressing as mike has said.
But if you spend time looking at a few asian bats and know what your looking for there bats are as good and on par with the best the uk can muscle up.
Truth is the difference between the best uk and best indian there is none...
look and you will find..
the only issue i have with indian/pakistan bats is counterfeit bats of them there plenty letting brands down
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Also important I think to consider perception. If you initially buy into a brand and have good luck by getting a very good bat, it is possible that when you buy future bats your opinion is coloured somewhat towards them.
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Can I throw a spanner in the works and a open a can of worms by asking...
If I buy pre-handled, pre-pressed clefts and make a bat from the raw block of willow, am I a bat finisher, bat maker or a cleft shaper?
If you don't have access to, or the funds for machinery to do those extra jobs, you work within your limitations surely. It seems that the associated attributes that go along with the label "bat maker" cause the most controversy.
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finisher mate
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The willow merchant sells clefts, if you turn that into a bat yourself then you are a bat maker, simple.
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I quite fancy having a go with an SS at some point in the future. Never used an Indian made bat before and would like to compare it with what I have now
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they dont do anything
the 5000 and 6000 and some 4000 are made in the uk..
everything below is made in indian.
knowing where the top puma bats come from i would say they are no more pingy than anyother bat from the same place.
even 4000 are made in India if I am not wrong. I have packing of a Puma 4000 at home and i think it mentions made i India