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Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: 100 not out on December 14, 2011, 02:40:04 PM

Title: Grains or Low Density
Post by: 100 not out on December 14, 2011, 02:40:04 PM
If you could only have one as having both is a rarity which one and why??
Title: Re: Grains or Density
Post by: tim2000s on December 14, 2011, 02:40:54 PM
If you could only have one as having both is a rarity which one and why??
Very grainy bats tend to be more dense, hence you get both. Is that what you are after?
Title: Re: Grains or Density
Post by: kaustav on December 14, 2011, 02:42:33 PM
OK--educate me: more the density less the weight? TIA.
Title: Re: Grains or Density
Post by: tim2000s on December 14, 2011, 02:46:11 PM
OK--educate me: more the density less the weight? TIA.
Density is the mass/unit of volume. Two bats have a 50mm spine and 35mm edges and are shaped the same. One weighs 3lb, the other 2lb 9oz. The lighter bat is less dense, or has a lower density.
Title: Re: Grains or Density
Post by: gabbers on December 14, 2011, 02:48:25 PM
Probably density.
Title: Re: Grains or Density
Post by: kaustav on December 14, 2011, 02:48:49 PM
And hence the term low density cleft; gotcha  8)
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: 100 not out on December 14, 2011, 02:58:30 PM
I have amended the thread title to avoid confusion. What I mean is having nice looking grains and low density willow is rare. Some low density willow will be "ugly" cosmetically speaking. Given the choice, what do you go for . A nicer looking bat which does not have a large profile or an uglier one that does ?
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: kaustav on December 14, 2011, 03:01:50 PM
So is it taken for granted that low density clefts will not have a good grain structure? Quite interesting to the effect that if one looks at the TRD he might be a little flummoxed.
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Alvaro on December 14, 2011, 03:04:38 PM
Edges that are too big change the way I bat and when using my mate's jumbo CA I'd find myself going across the line more. So, as i am happier playing with about 30mm edges tops, and as long as there was a spare in my bag, in this case I would go for grains.
Perhaps another reason for my decision is that none of my bats are particularly good looking, so it would make a nice change :). 
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: roco on December 14, 2011, 03:05:49 PM
Well bats are for hitting a ball so whichever helps me do that better
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: PedalsMcgrew on December 14, 2011, 03:07:22 PM
So is it taken for granted that low density clefts will not have a good grain structure? Quite interesting to the effect that if one looks at the TRD he might be a little flummoxed.


In general low density clefts have less grains. They don't look worse, it's personal preference I guess. But they do have less grains.

Most asian bats are overdried hence the big profiles available. There are only a very limited number of truly low density clefts available each season so mass producers of bats would never ever base a model on the availability of such clefts as they would probably only be able to turn out 20 if they're lucky!
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: kaustav on December 14, 2011, 03:10:26 PM

In general low density clefts have less grains. They don't look worse, it's personal preference I guess. But they do have less grains.

Most asian bats are overdried hence the big profiles available. There are only a very limited number of truly low density clefts available each season so mass producers of bats would never ever base a model on the availability of such clefts as they would probably only be able to turn out 20 if they're lucky!

Thanks mate; but I probably will not say that most Asian bats are overdried though. Some yes, most: no.
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: PedalsMcgrew on December 14, 2011, 03:14:04 PM
If it's a big profile and it's Asian and you're buying it off the shelf then it's almost certainly overdried. It's the way they make bats. Nothing wrong with it but it's highly unlikely to be made from a low density cleft seeing as how only a tiny percentage of willow clefts have truly low density and they are often the ones filtered out for sponsored players etc...
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: kaustav on December 14, 2011, 03:20:17 PM
Hmmm....I do understand where you are coming from; and some of these bats, specially the Pakistani ones do have quite big profiles; but even those are not always overdried; me and my friend have done moisture readings on these and not all of them have come out with bad readings; in fact the TRD, the one with the biggest profile and wonderful grain structure has got the best reading while others like the Bubber Sher or a CA 12000 had lower readings. Anyway this has been a continuing debate for sometime now  :-\
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Canners on December 14, 2011, 07:35:24 PM
Low density every time......

Looks don't equal performance
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Cover_Drive on December 14, 2011, 07:42:25 PM
If it's a big profile and it's Asian and you're buying it off the shelf then it's almost certainly overdried. It's the way they make bats. Nothing wrong with it but it's highly unlikely to be made from a low density cleft seeing as how only a tiny percentage of willow clefts have truly low density and they are often the ones filtered out for sponsored players etc...

YOu really can't say it is overdrying, the thing is that some factories in Asia don't have controlled temperature room where they can store clefts, so due to atmosphere and weather they dry out.
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Cover_Drive on December 14, 2011, 07:43:25 PM
So is it taken for granted that low density clefts will not have a good grain structure? Quite interesting to the effect that if one looks at the TRD he might be a little flummoxed.

A bat which has higher number of grains is going to be more dense whereas a bat with few grains is going to be less dense compared to higher grains one.
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: PedalsMcgrew on December 14, 2011, 08:05:33 PM
YOu really can't say it is overdrying, the thing is that some factories in Asia don't have controlled temperature room where they can store clefts, so due to atmosphere and weather they dry out.

So I can say they are overdried then  ???   :D

Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Canners on December 14, 2011, 08:08:03 PM
So I can say they are overdried then  ???   :D

I would say the vast majority of massive bats are over dried
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: 100 not out on December 14, 2011, 08:10:04 PM
Certainly I'd say due to the warmer climate Asian bats are drier. Some may be purposely over dried too I'm sure of that.
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Opener on December 14, 2011, 08:15:53 PM
So I can say they are overdried then  ???   :D

In the experiment Kaustav mentioned the TRD had a moisture reading of 9% same as the GN legend. The Malik bat had a lower reading. I think the higher end Asian bats might not be overdried.
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Canners on December 14, 2011, 08:17:27 PM
The TRD's look heavily concaved, I am guessing theyre not as big as you'd think.....
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Opener on December 14, 2011, 09:07:44 PM
That might be true Canners but they were not overdried...
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: johnnyw on December 14, 2011, 09:08:31 PM
Low density....grains are way too over hyped in my eyes
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Cover_Drive on December 14, 2011, 09:10:14 PM
So I can say they are overdried then  ???   :D


To some extent but not deliberately over-dried :)

Either way most bats in the world today are over dried.

See these pictures too;

(http://cricketgearreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/DSC040411.jpg)

(http://cricketgearreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/IMG_16131.jpg)

(http://cricketgearreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/DSC04065.jpg)
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: kaustav on December 14, 2011, 09:18:22 PM
I would say the vast majority of massive bats are over dried

You might have answered this elsewhere mate, but being the (former) owner of a behemoth of a bat from Laver, did you notice the moisture reading of the willow? Do you think it was overdried?
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Spanky on December 14, 2011, 09:20:30 PM
How accurate is that moisture meter? Surely it is just measuring the surface moisture.
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: kaustav on December 14, 2011, 09:20:56 PM
And just to twist it a bit more, the GN Legend perhaps was made in India as well  :-\
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: kaustav on December 14, 2011, 09:21:47 PM
How accurate is that moisture meter? Surely it is just measuring the surface moisture.

Though it is the pinless variety and we have talked about it elsewhere, trust me mate, it is dependable  8)
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Cover_Drive on December 14, 2011, 09:21:59 PM
You might have answered this elsewhere mate, but being the (former) owner of a behemoth of a bat from Laver, did you notice the moisture reading of the willow? Do you think it was overdried?

I have heard stories they are overdried mate, never rule out any thing :D
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: kaustav on December 14, 2011, 09:34:09 PM
By the way CD--- the UPS guy just landed  8)

Will chat about that later on......
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Canners on December 14, 2011, 09:43:23 PM
You might have answered this elsewhere mate, but being the (former) owner of a behemoth of a bat from Laver, did you notice the moisture reading of the willow? Do you think it was overdried?

There's a few tricks laver have done to get the bat so big but even so, I can't see how else it's that big without being dried.... I must add laver have stated these ultras aren't extra dried...
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: kaustav on December 14, 2011, 09:46:22 PM
Fair enough  :)
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: norbs on December 14, 2011, 09:56:06 PM
Below what % is over dried?
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: pacman75cricket on December 14, 2011, 10:08:23 PM
Interesting question what moisture content  is standard for different batmakers
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: norbs on December 14, 2011, 10:14:05 PM
Interesting question what moisture content  is standard for different batmakers

That is what I was alluding to... loads of over dried willow comments on this thread, so therefore the question.  They must know what % is over dried otherwise they surely wouldn't have commented ;-)
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Number4 on December 14, 2011, 10:15:08 PM
I think I read somewhere and I think it was from Norbs that low density clefts are usually around the 7-9 grains.

Just an off topic point here, I have a 20 year old GN Ultimate 1000 LE and this bat is/was the best bat I have ever owned... It has only about 6 grains and not overly straight at that... Don't know how GN graded bats back then but being a 1000 LE which was the top of the line back then so only could have been graded on performance.

So after that rambling I don't think grains or density really matter at all.... It all comes down to performance.

I might add that this bat has about 15mm edges and probably a spine height of 45-50mm maybe but rebounded like crazy... Guess you could say it was one of those "one of a kind" bats
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: norbs on December 14, 2011, 10:17:24 PM
not me...
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Number4 on December 14, 2011, 10:18:52 PM
May have been Millichamp... I tend to get the greats mixed up...lol
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: norbs on December 14, 2011, 10:20:35 PM
May have been Millichamp... I tend to get the greats mixed up...lol

hahahaha, JM prefers that number of grains for a good performing bat not really anything to do with density
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Cover_Drive on December 14, 2011, 10:20:41 PM
Mike Brimble said around 10% is good...
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Laver & Wood on December 14, 2011, 10:21:10 PM
I have heard stories they are overdried mate, never rule out any thing :D

Please let me know where you heard these stories Uzair......  None of our bats are dried beyond our standard processes unless specifically asked for by our customers.

Most of our bats will sit in the 10% to 12% moisture content range....

Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Number4 on December 14, 2011, 10:24:00 PM
hahahaha, JM prefers that number of grains for a good performing bat not really anything to do with density

I'm searching..I know I read it somewhere...lol
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: norbs on December 14, 2011, 10:32:29 PM
Mike Brimble said around 10% is good...

Brimble, whose he?
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: norbs on December 14, 2011, 10:34:11 PM
I'm searching..I know I read it somewhere...lol

On one of his vids mate... I'm a huge fan of JM
Title: Re: Grains or Low Density
Post by: Cover_Drive on December 14, 2011, 10:35:16 PM
Brimble, whose he?

HAHAHA LOOL :)))