Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Your Cricket => Umpires => Topic started by: LMQ21 on May 26, 2012, 08:52:57 PM
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Hi Guys,
3rd game of the season today and am sitting at home dwelling over the joke that was today's game as well as the overall feeling of a rubbish seasons cricket so far (And that was after the rain).
Having dropped down the leagues due to moving counties for University commitments I find myself now playing village cricket... end of the day its still a game and also I am helping them out as they didn't have a wicketkeeper. For these guys we have club/team umpires (one from each team or two from the home team).
This is the follow fielding scenario for the past 3 games:
Game 1 - After the opening pair put on past 100 on a very very very damp track we started to skittle them out and got them 120/7.
The next batsman comes in and takes guard about half a foot outside he crease, I was standing back about 5ft from the stumps after some very wayward bowling. Bowler comes in... Play and a miss... Into the gloves... Notice batsman hasn't stepped back into the crease... Bails off... How is that ? .......................... Not out. I was absolutely baffled by the fact that this was the simplest of all stumpings that could be given, the batsman made absolutely no attempt to step back in and was clearly out. (The batsman however commented I called him out before removing the bails...... yet he was still out his crease.) Firstly due to the time delay the umpire may have switched off as it wasn't an instant stumping however by no means was the ball dead... Surely the Leg Umpire has only one job to concentrate on and should be doing this to the full?
Game 2 - Playing on a better track with some carry however standing up to a medium pacer, their batsmen plays and misses a leg side glance, over balances and falls out the crease. The bails were off in one quick smooth motion... Hows that ? Not out... At this point the batsman was still outside his crease. Umpire said the bails were taken off whilst the batsman was still in his ground and then he fell out.... At this point a roar of laughter comes from the slips, gully and point. And their players questioning why he wasn't given out as it was clear even from the pavilion .....
However the game then seemed to go in our advance as a new batsman tried a leg glance missed and ball carried through and I took it and then just threw and caught the ball a couple of times in the gloves...I then turn to see the Umpire give the batsman out for a caught behind ... that no one appealed?
Swings and roundabouts I suppose.
Game 3 (Today's game and by far the most frustrating) - After starting well taking out one opener, no3 and no4 their team looked in trouble. Their opener edged and fluked his way to the 40's. The batsman then tries an audacious leg side shot that came through via the pads and into the gloves. The Bowler, Slips and Myself appealed to be given not out and the batsman turning to me and saying you know I didn't hit it so why f---ing cheat? As many wickeys know, you don't have a great idea whether the batsman hits it and it comes down leg but there was definitely two noises and if you don't ask you don't get.
The same batsman then continued to edge and fluke his way to the 90's... He then tried to sweep a swing bowler to leg missing completely and kicking up a lot of dust... Appealed this but before I had even finished appealing I noticed that the batsman was still out his ground by 1-2 feet and whipped off the bails and ready to begin celebrating only for both the appeals to be given not out. After the confusing of what was being appealed I knew the stumping was out the umpires decided not out... The batsman once again chirped up and said "just shut the f--- up and get on with the game". At the end of the over I chirped with "The problem is you knew you were out and the decent thing to do would have been a gentleman and walked" To which this guy replied "We will discuss it in the bar after the game" Which came across as slightly pathetic for a guy who knew he was cheating himself and everyone on the pitch.
Next over the first ball comes through from an offy and the same batsman plays and misses... I return the ball to the bowler only for the batsman to say to the umpire I tried to throw the ball and him ... I was given a warning even though the umpire watched me return the ball. Next ball the guy sweeps and is plum LBW Appeal - Given ..... Batsman turns to Me and says you better watch yourself after the game.
After batting quite poorly I come into bat at number 5... Offy gives me a lovely full floated toss, smashed away for 4. Next ball comes in and I pick it up and smash it through the covers for 4... same happened to the next two balls.... However what I failed to notice was the gentleman batsman was standing at cover and said to the umpire I was attempting to hit the ball at him to which the umpire warned me for unsportmans like conduct ..... At this point I nearly retired as I had literally had enough of the Umpires and the so called sportsmanship and conduct in the field.
After all this am I right to feel aggrieved tonight or am I just worrying about stuff to much ? I know an umpire is not going to change a decision and I know nothing can be done about it now but after considering the last few games on the journey home I just feel like knocking the season on the head and enjoying the summer in a different way which would really be a huge shame.
But after being cheated and warned by what was supposed to be our team umpire I feel its a pointless task even turning up to play again as the bloke clearly doesn't have a clue. I would understand had it been one of their umpires and maybe a bit of cheating going on but not when decisions are so clear cut the all the guy needs to do is raise the finger.
Give me some words of wisdom CBF to calm me down after this rant!
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However what I failed to notice was the gentleman batsman was standing at cover and said to the umpire I was attempting to hit the ball at him to which the umpire warned me for unsportmans like conduct .
Never heard this before, might have to try it myself when I'm having a poor game in the field and the ball is following me around! :D
At the end of the day, Cricket is supposed to be fun, if you're not having fun then you need to voice your opinion to your club about the poor umpiring and if nothing improves then move on to a new club. Have a word with either the umpire himself or somebody else at the club and see if they can get it resolved, because if they really need a wicketkeeper then they will value you and hopefully try to keep you happy.
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maybe try to find a different league .... might have to travel for an hour but it will be worth it.
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Sounds to me like you haven't quite grasped the concept of village cricket....the whole tone of your post suggests it is all a bit beneath you. If that attitude is coming through on the pitch then I doubt this is the last issue you'll experience this season....bad stuff happens....get over it. Or maybe go to a club more befitting of the standard you think your at?
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Never heard this before, might have to try it myself when I'm having a poor game in the field and the ball is following me around! :D
Its the first time this has happened to me and I really just think the umpire was on a hate mission or maybe had a soft spot for the bloke but it was absolutely pathetic. I just thought though it is his choice to stand there
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Sounds to me like you haven't quite grasped the concept of village cricket....the whole tone of your post suggests it is all a bit beneath you. If that attitude is coming through on the pitch then I doubt this is the last issue you'll experience this season....bad stuff happens....get over it. Or maybe go to a club more befitting of the standard you think your at?
I have grasped the concept of it and understand that the quality of the game and umpires isn't what I am use to playing.
However cheating isn't acceptable at any level of the sport at just brings the game down. Although bad stuff does happen (3 scores not in double figures so far this season) I don't think any one on this forum could say they turn a blind eye to cheaters.
As I said I had to move clubs for University but I didn't want to have to commit to a higher standard as I have work to do.
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you've just gotta get on with it mate. everyone sees the game differently, there is nothing you can do to stop this. The same guy you thought you had stumped may have thought he was in the crease and have may now be having a similar rant about you trying to cheat him. That is life, that is cricket. that is sport. It'll even itself out, maybe not this season, but it will do at some point. Its harder to recognise when it does as you see the game different to i, but it will do!
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you don't "fluke" your way into the 90's.
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this is terrible, you've had 5 or 6 decisions that have not gone your way in 3 games, I think the ICC should be called in...
Seriously, just get over it, your making way to much of it! If you don't like it go and play somewhere else.
But to be honest your sounding like a bit of a whiner
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From reading this it sounds like you feel you are to good to be playing at this standard and the game of cricket owes you something for doing so. I hate arrogant wicket-keepers and it seems like you could be coming across as one. Obviously like I say it seems like you could be coming across as one and I have no idea if you are or not ... Just get on with the game mate and enjoy every second. Yes you've had bad luck but that's sport buddy. It will even its self out in the end
:)
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Totally understand what you mean and to a degree I do sympathise.
Unfortunately, that's Village Cricket. No point getting worked up about it. The trouble is if you go to a 'bigger' club and play in a better league, that standard also has its inherent problems. That's sport.
Find a level/standard/atmosphere whatever, that you're happy playing at.
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What a lovely bunch some of you are!
Really makes this forum seem like a nice place to discuss games and things revolving cricket.
I am not at all arrogant and I after each of the mentioned incidents I have just got on with the game and looked for the next opportunity.
The only reason I posted on here was to see other peoples opinions and whether anyone else had suffered the same fate as well as advice on it.
Not to be called a (No Swearing Please) or a whiner
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Yer you shouldn't have been called those names mate.
Like you said just get on and look forward to the next opportunity :)
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I think you have to just get over the 'not outs' - frustrating though they may be. The charge of deliberately hitting the ball at a player would have made me laugh if I had been accused of it - something along the lines of 'just how good a bat do you think I am?' would probably have been my reply.
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go play at a better standard, with proper umpires
or just get on with it
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As a fellow keeper, I understand your frustrations but it happens week in, week out in club cricket. I've had two stumpings not given already this season that were cast iron out but if the umpire doesn't share your view then there's nothing you can do except keep looking for the next one...and we have neutral umpires so there is no question of bias. Without the benefit of tv replays, club level umpires are always going to get decisions wrong.
I never question the batsman for not walking either, it's just not worth it for the bad blood that can then lead to. Also, if you're keeping first and then going to be batting yourself later in the day, why antagonise the opposition to leave yourself open to sledging when you go out to bat?
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As a fellow keeper, I understand your frustrations but it happens week in, week out in club cricket. I've had two stumpings not given already this season that were cast iron out but if the umpire doesn't share your view then there's nothing you can do except keep looking for the next one...and we have neutral umpires so there is no question of bias. Without the benefit of tv replays, club level umpires are always going to get decisions wrong.
I never question the batsman for not walking either, it's just not worth it for the bad blood that can then lead to. Also, if you're keeping first and then going to be batting yourself later in the day, why antagonise the opposition to leave yourself open to sledging when you go out to bat?
very good points, am also a keeper and agree entirely, unfortunately things aren't going to go your way a lot of the time, would definitely advise keeping quiet though as there's nothing more annoying than a whiney/gobby stumper! it's not worth the hassle from the odd nutter in the oppo
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I think you just have to realise that you're not playing at the level you want and you're going to get these decisions. It's up to you whether you want to carry on at the club you're playing for and live with the fact that this is going to happen and just enjoy the game and let your batting/keeping do the talking or you move somewhere where you'll be happy and plaing to a standard that suits you better. I'm sure that there are clubs in your area that you could get decent cricket in where you'll only need to net once a week if you have to.
Just a comment on your post sounding like a moan, it does, but I think it's very hard on a forum to type a post on something like this without it sounding like a moan (My comments on Friday sounded like a moan but where no way intended to be), so I shouldn't worry about it to much. As they say, always look on the bright side of life :-\ :-\ :-\
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Its the first time this has happened to me and I really just think the umpire was on a hate mission or maybe had a soft spot for the bloke but it was absolutely pathetic. I just thought though it is his choice to stand there
I'd tell them to naff off tbf (Perhaps in stronger terms) or go to 3rd man.
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It could be worse mate. i was playing 2 sundays ago, whipped off the bails and our skipper who was at slip told me not to appeal. As you can imagine as a keeper, I wasn't best pleased. Next ball the guy's nicked it straight in to my gloves and didn't walk. I was seething but just had to bite my tongue.
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It could be worse mate. i was playing 2 sundays ago, whipped off the bails and our skipper who was at slip told me not to appeal.
Im sorry mate but that is ridiculous - why play the game, in fact any sport, if you are just going to waste your time? Bet the bowler was pleased...
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Im sorry mate but that is ridiculous - why play the game, in fact any sport, if you are just going to waste your time? Bet the bowler was pleased...
You're right he wasn't best pleased. The skipper's excuse was he'd promised someone else a bowl and it would have been the last wicket
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This is sort of the opposite of what happened to me. I came in to village cricket after a long lay off because of injury wanting to score a century every Sunday and maybe have a small shrine erected of me in the village. As it was two matches in I was ducking bouncers and after one season I have top scored with a solid 18 not out (very, very solid I might add)!
Conversely though I do not think the nature of the problem is as you described, I believe the very few games I have played that have been unpleasant have been down to people taking themselves far too seriously. I won't go as far as to say 'It's only a game' but you can see what I'm getting at.
I would keep calm and carry on to use a cliche. Relax a bit and remember you're there to have fun, albeit in a competitive environment. I usually find you can charm even the grumpiest, loneliest bastards by simply making a joke at your own expense, the last laugh should always be on you! No matter how big the game, I do not think there is any occasion so great that should bring about the demise of my integrity. That means not getting in arguments, laughing at myself when I do something stupid (Not always easy I but I usually get there in the end) and at all times playing the game with the sort of courtesy I would expect from Dr. W. G. Grace!
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We played one game last season where they had to chase 237 (of which I contributed 97 ;) ) and we had them at 167-6 and were all over them with appeals for stumpings, run outs and LBWs. The oppo proceeded to give wides for balls that scraped the off stump, and one umpire gave a run out not out even though the guy had practically started walking already. Even more disgusting, the batsman scooped a catch out to cover and started to walk, but the umpire said that he thought it wasn't out because he believed the batsman had hit the ball into the ground, even though it had come out of the middle of the bat! Can't wait to play at a better standard of cricket where people respect fair play and/or we have professional umpires.
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Got to admit we had an umpire yesterday who didn't give one of his guys out caught behind it was only the fact that the guy walked and their square leg umpire said out that he raised his finger. The next over when I was fielding at square leg told me that he wasn't going to give it because our bowler appealed to much, and trust me the edge might as well have been off the middle of the bat!!!
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Lets face it its a stupid game. Any game where the team you are playing against gets to make all the important decisions for your team is liable to abuse. Most players are fair but you only need one biased idiot to spoil a good match. Played a games some years ago for my village side and bowled their batsman only for the umpire to say not out because the keeper had knocked the bails off. This was complete rubbish, we appealed to square leg about this but he said he wasn't looking. Told the skipper to get someone else to finish the over as if we weren't counting bowled what was the point. Laughable!
Worst one however was last season. Played a team who's skipper was a notorious not outer. I bowled a slower ball out the back of my hand which ballooned up at the batsman. He went back and tried to pull it, only for it to dip late hitting him on his back leg ankle inches in front of middle. Stonewall out and he knew it. Proceeded to give it as a No Ball for height. He said when it passed him it was above waist height, to which I explained that if it hit his ankle it hadn't yet passed him. Even the batsman said he was wrong but he refused to backdown. I completed the over by bowling 3 bouncers which is no mean feet at my speed. Then being taken off to stew in the outfield for the rest of the game. As a result we have dropped them as a fixture this year.
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So this is the thread where the teenagers come to moan when their parents have got bored of listening.......good to know...
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So this is the thread where the teenagers come to moan when their parents have got bored of listening.......good to know...
I'm offended!!! I'm 22 ;) ;)
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Lets face it its a stupid game. Any game where the team you are playing against gets to make all the important decisions for your team is liable to abuse. Most players are fair but you only need one biased idiot to spoil a good match. Played a games some years ago for my village side and bowled their batsman only for the umpire to say not out because the keeper had knocked the bails off. This was complete rubbish, we appealed to square leg about this but he said he wasn't looking. Told the skipper to get someone else to finish the over as if we weren't counting bowled what was the point. Laughable!
I hope this wasn't Newark evening league cos I could have been that umpire, suggesting the umpire was changed makes me think it wasn't cos that didn't happen.
The hardest moment I've had whilst umpiring came and I acted how I thought was genuine at the time.
Bowler was slow/medium at a push. Keeper stood up, sharp enough. Ball goes very close to Off Peg, within a split second keeper has taken the ball and also gone for the bails, the ball then spills.
Now I had no idea if this had hit off stump or keeper had whipped bails off, I said this to the bowler who said that he also did not know. I asked the square leg umpire if he had seen the ball pass the stumps but he hadn't a clue.
I said to the bowler I can't be sure so I had to go in the batsmans favour. Not cos he was on my team but because the bowler always has another ball to try get him out.
The bowler understood, then accused our team of cheating several overs later when I had swapped umpires (naturally not from this decision)
Played there again last year, hit biggest 6 I've ever seen in league cricket :D
I still feel I acted right, or at least followed my instincts, and didn't hate the situation till after. Have since learn to score well so only umpire when need to, not that I could imagine a case like this happens often.
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I'm offended!!! I'm 22 ;) ;)
Then you should know better! ;)
With full acceptance of ALL umpiring decisions comes true enlightenment grasshopper..... ;)
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Then you should know better! ;)
With full acceptance of ALL umpiring decisions comes true enlightenment grasshopper..... ;)
I have no problem with umpires, I was moaning about my own skipper telling me not to appeal for a stumping ;) 8)
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To the OP, unfortunately mate, that's the nature of the beast. Some blokes who play the game are honest and will call it as they see it. Others will sh-t in their hands and tell you with a straight face that it's gold. Swings and roundabouts I reckon - some days you don't get the calls, others you do.
A couple of seasons ago I had one bloke out three times before his team finally gave him. Two were the plumbest LBWs you've ever seen (I'm not exaggerating) and the other was a full toss around his knees that was caught - he was 3/4 off the field when the central umpire convinced the square leg umpire it was a no-ball. They were his teammates, and naturally I was furious, but what can you do? Another time I didn't even appeal (I don't appeal unless I'm certain it's out) for an LBW and the umpire gave it - I thought the ball had bounced before it hit the batsman, but the umpire said it hit him on the full. Fair enough, it's his call and I'll take the wicket everyday.
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i have 2 things to say on this i leave saturday cricket for being serious and sunday cricket big laugh with my mates,in are sunday league we have loads of teams who think there nearly semi pro but are basically dog (No Swearing Please) bowlers batters and fielders,the thing we have on sunday is a massive amount of team spirt and i know if someone even tries to give me any sort of (No Swearing Please) i have 10 people going to give in back twice as bad to them,and thats why i love the 2 levels of cricket i play
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i have 2 things to say on this i leave saturday cricket for being serious and sunday cricket big laugh with my mates
Exactly. Play your cricket hard on a Saturday - it's tough in the league no matter what standard you play in - and you'll ne wanting the umpires to play it fair too. To the OP it would annoy me massively if this was happening in a League Match. You'd expect the guys to know the rules... Mate if you're good enough then go and play somewhere else in a better standard where you have league umpires...
On a Sunday, if it's a friendly then does it really matter if your captain tells you not to appeal for the last wicket because he wants to let someone have else have a bowl. Nah, not at all. Sundays are about participation and as long as you have a good game with runs scored on both sides it doesn't matter if you win or not. If the umpires are a bit dodgy/don't know the rules does it really matter? Sundays should be FUN, keep the serious stuff for Saturdays
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We play in a league where umpires are not mandatory but if you turn up with an ump and the others don't, you win the toss. This means that we do a lot of umpiring. I have a love/hate relationship with it. I quite enjoy umpiring, but I will give a batsman out if I believe he is out. The last question any umpire should ask themselves before raising the finger is "Is there any legitimate reason that that is not out?"...
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I had to ump on Saturday, and you have to call them as you see them. Early on there was a massive lbw shout against one of our openers (who went on to get 76 no) which I turned down. TBH it was a miracle that he wasn't out, as the ball cannoned off both pads before missing leg stump by a whisker - I was expecting to hear the crash of timber. But my reason for not giving it was that I thought he'd got a thin inside edge on it first. This is what I told the bowler when he made a polite enquiry as to why it wasn't given, and he was satisfied with the answer.
In general I think LB's are the most contentious, and there can be a lot of twaddle spouted. The one that raises my hackles is the airy: 'Oh, he was playing across the line...'
OK it makes it more likely that you will fall lbw, but if the ball hasn't pitched in line, and most important of all, isn't hitting, then in my opinion you can be playing whatever shot you like and you won't be out.
I've seen loads of dodgy ones given though, and throwing in a bit of conspiracy theory it might come down to stats. In one league where I occasionally filled in as a player you were very vulnerable to LBs, simply because they wouldn't be given against the regulars on either team, who had played each other since Adam was a lad. As fresh meat, even a very big stride forward offered almost no protection.
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Having played 2's cricket for most of my cricketing life I think you just have to get on with it, home umpires aren't going to give LBW's or close stumpings/ run outs against their own players unless you're really lucky and its absolutely plum. Had a funny one last week though where its looked pretty stone wall but "not out" our bowler politely asked why not? and the panic set in on the lads face and he said "because it pitched outside off stump" all you can do is laugh really and even the majority of league umpires aren't any better either.
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The last question any umpire should ask themselves before raising the finger is "Is there any legitimate reason that that is not out?"...
Quite right. My finger goes up pretty quickly if I have no doubt the guy is out. However, if I have to think about it, pause for a second, ponder - then it's basically not out. I gave a couple of plumb ones not out recently because I had doubts about the swing and balls pitching outside leg, no more than that. Likewise I gave one of our guys out to no more than a muted appeal because it swung late and was smashing all 3 down.
The LBW laws aren't rocket science - pitch outside leg then not out, foot outside off then not out, anything else is pretty much a height or direction issue unless the guy is running down the track.
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even the majority of league umpires aren't any better either.
agree, we don't normally have umpires but due to a cup run we've had them for 3/4 games this season. Some are pretty decent but others are more trouble than they are worth. Here's my collection from this season:-
1. Can you move a step forward umpire?, no because I can't see the front foot line and I'll have to no ball you.
2. Ump - you guys are terrible timewasters. Me - ok, we bowled 28 overs in how long?, ump - I don't know but the oppo took 2 hours 45 mins to bowl 40 ???? (we bowled 2 spinners for 16 overs in tandem and took 100 mins to bowl 28 by my reckoning)
3. Ump miscounts the overs by 2 overs (after only 20 gone), makes the scorer cry for missing a bye
4. Ump insists on "coming down", not overs completed
5. Ump labels us "clowns" - never told me specifically why, says the oppo has respect for them. Oppo stood at the crease for a full 20 seconds after each dismissal, even when bowled making there displeasure very obvious and in many leagues that's blatant dissent.
6. Ump tells me that if it rains the game is off as it's 100 yards to the pavilion and he'll be to wet to continue.
Pay £30 per ump for this. It's not an easy job and always try to be friendly and helpful to them, as all our players do, but some don't help themselves.
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One thing I've noticed about my club, compared to other clubs in our district, is we are perhaps too honest when umpiring. What we basically agree on is if we edge a catch to the keeper and we know for sure we hit it we should walk, so as not to put any added pressure on our team-mate to give the decision. More often that not other teams won't give their players out when they've edged it, nor do their batsmen walk. I think it's a sensible and honourable thing for us to do, but we are probably shooting ourselves in the foot with our honesty.