Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Gloves => Topic started by: tim2000s on October 18, 2012, 08:24:34 AM
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Following on from M77's thread, and some of the samples threads we see on here, I thought I'd ask the above question.
The reason for this is that I see loads of pairs of pads and gloves that all look very similar to one another turning up in the samples thread, with the only real differences being the colourway selected. Otherwise they are all derivatives of much the same thing. I tend to look at them and shrug my shoulders as, realistically, nothing really stands out.
One of the reasons I like Puma is that they look to be trying to do something different, and the new M&H pads and Aero also seek to do the same thing.
As is obvious, there are phyiscal limits to what can be done, but clearly there are a few people out there seeking to push the boundaries.
So is everyone happy with the same old same old? If they are, why are they? What's stopping you from trying something different? Is this just the normal aversion to change? If some of the modern stuff was aesthetically better, would you buy it? Why is teh average cricket buyer so staid?
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I guess its difficult to produce something different in certain pads. a traditional cane pad is a traditional cane pad. not alot you can do with it. Obviously if your looking for a modern style pad you have a bit more room to play around with the designs.
for me, Unless you are designing something completely radical you have to stick with a current design and tweak it a little. Im looking at having two pads which are currently being sampled. One is a traditional cane pad the other is a traditional styled pad but without cane. im not a fan of the modern moulded style pads so stayed away from them. I have changed aspects of the design which appear on pretty much every pad but there is only so much you can change. The 2 styles of gloves i am having sampled are not the same as current designs but obviously take key points from current brands etc. again unless your being radical like the mitts your going to struggle to do anything hugely different. alot of things have already been done or take bits and pieces from lots of glove designs.
I dont agree with taking a stock pad or glove and then just sticking your logo on it. it doesnt make it unique or any different to the other brands using it.
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I guess its difficult to produce something different in certain pads. a traditional cane pad is a traditional cane pad. not alot you can do with it. Obviously if your looking for a modern style pad you have a bit more room to play around with the designs.
for me, Unless you are designing something completely radical you have to stick with a current design and tweak it a little. Im looking at having two pads which are currently being sampled. One is a traditional cane pad the other is a traditional styled pad but without cane. im not a fan of the modern moulded style pads so stayed away from them. I have changed aspects of the design which appear on pretty much every pad but there is only so much you can change. The 2 styles of gloves i am having sampled are not the same as current designs but obviously take key points from current brands etc. again unless your being radical like the mitts your going to struggle to do anything hugely different. alot of things have already been done or take bits and pieces from lots of glove designs.
I dont agree with taking a stock pad or glove and then just sticking your logo on it. it doesnt make it unique or any different to the other brands using it.
Is the reason that we still do the traditional cane pad that it is cheap to produce or is it just because that's the way it's always been done?
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I think the traditional cane pad is the one thats most used. for me its a classic look. most pros use them and its the ones we see most of all around the club scene aswell. i dont like the modern pads but i love the traditional cane ones. Ill be honest in saying because i dont like the modern style pads i didnt look into cost so i have no idea what the cost difference is if any.
i guess it also comes down to the fact they do whats required. they offer great protection and arent particularly heavy.
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Can a moulded pad to look like a traditional pad be done?
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Can a moulded pad to look like a traditional pad be done?
Morrant Ultralites....
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Can a moulded pad to look like a traditional pad be done?
i think aero tried this recently to make their pads look less odd. Im not sure it works personally. the ultralites are probably the only moulded/ modern pads id use. the rest i just dont like
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Ok from my side of things
buying softs is an absolute ball ache takes ages and cost more then people think...
It is the biggest game of cat and mouse in the industry
As a small bat maker, not a softs designer, it is easier to go down the path of least resistance and even that is a minefield
Most of the time the reason you supply is not for an individual that wants your glove, it is someone that has your bat and wants your glove / pad etc. Bags are different
If you start looking at using special protective materials and altering design based on the stipulated rebound properties as issued by the ICC the cost will go up... That research, testing and subsequent marketing costs time and money... So at that point you are in niche market so you are better off being someone like Arytek. i.e. you pay for the protection from a specialist, innovative supplier..
So at some point you have to say to yourself am I bat maker or something else?
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Which is why almost everyone outsources their softs production to SG, etc.
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After being contacted by one of the companies you mention Tim I can tell you cost is a factor. 10p of 10,000 units makes people take notice.
But from discussions the question was raised by on senior guy... why?
Why change, when people seem happy. For the most part they are, but when there is room to improve safety then someone has to try... Most are happy with the game theory imposed at the moment by doing very little and keeping everyone on a level playing field but more can be done and a few want to see it happen.
Costs will always play a major factor, but you can source materials from different industries at similar costs to existing supplier for far greater benefits such as absorption, weight and even from renewables... but you need for the makers to believe in your approach first. Other wise you are on a hiding to nothing... and i wouldn't be here.
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In the same vain as my reply on the other thread, modern pads have changed too much too quickly (for my liking). Personally I don’t see why you can’t make a moulded pad look just like a traditional pad (corrugated cane like front, RH/LH thigh protection wings, angled thigh protection) but perform like a modern pad (lightweight, etc).
Morrant have gone some way to doing this, but I still sense the "we want to show these are different" bit in the design.
Surely if a 'mould' is used to make these, you’re only limited by your imagination?
But then I’m one opinion and perhaps what they produce caters for the consensus (?)
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I guess its difficult to produce something different in certain pads. a traditional cane pad is a traditional cane pad. not alot you can do with it. Obviously if your looking for a modern style pad you have a bit more room to play around with the designs.
for me, Unless you are designing something completely radical you have to stick with a current design and tweak it a little. Im looking at having two pads which are currently being sampled. One is a traditional cane pad the other is a traditional styled pad but without cane. im not a fan of the modern moulded style pads so stayed away from them. I have changed aspects of the design which appear on pretty much every pad but there is only so much you can change. The 2 styles of gloves i am having sampled are not the same as current designs but obviously take key points from current brands etc. again unless your being radical like the mitts your going to struggle to do anything hugely different. alot of things have already been done or take bits and pieces from lots of glove designs.
I dont agree with taking a stock pad or glove and then just sticking your logo on it. it doesnt make it unique or any different to the other brands using it.
Got to agree with John here, when designing the softs for Vantage I didn't think it would be in the best interest to do something completely radical just mainly looking at what works well and then make it your own rather than just rebranding another set of softs and change the colours on them. There's only so much you can do with cane pads, however modern style pads and gloves are slightly different and that's where you see the biggest differences between brands.
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After being contacted by one of the companies you mention Tim I can tell you cost is a factor. 10p of 10,000 units makes people take notice.
But from discussions the question was raised by on senior guy... why?
Why change, when people seem happy. For the most part they are, but when there is room to improve safety then someone has to try... Most are happy with the game theory imposed at the moment by doing very little and keeping everyone on a level playing field but more can be done and a few want to see it happen.
Costs will always play a major factor, but you can source materials from different industries at similar costs to existing supplier for far greater benefits such as absorption, weight and even from renewables... but you need for the makers to believe in your approach first. Other wise you are on a hiding to nothing... and i wouldn't be here.
Marcus bring out a glove from your book of 10,000 designs! ;)
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Marcus bring out a glove from your book of 10,000 designs! ;)
About 24 sepreate designs, and at least an a4 pad of observations from within the industry...
But it's already being done Leo another sample pair are being made to test... I'm happy to have a go and don't mind the odd bit of stick or goading. ;)
The moment i stop being paid for my work then i know i have nothing to offer. :o
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About 24 sepreate designs, and at least an a4 pad of observations from within the industry...
But it's already being done Leo another sample pair are being made to test... I'm happy to have a go and don't mind the odd bit of stick or goading. ;)
The moment i stop being paid for my work then i know i have nothing to offer. :o
Brill, look forward to seeing them!
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Main reason is time. To get a unique looking pad ready for general sale it'd take a number of visits to an Indian manufacturer, which costs a lot in terms of time and financial input.
It's easier to take a variation of the pad cutting templates they have.
Haven't heard any complaints about protective gear from many players whether pros or individuals, and most seem happy with what they get given.
Pads and gloves also aren't a hugely considered, high value and regular purchase like bats, so less time is dedicated to developing them. They're much an after thought.
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Brill, look forward to seeing them!
No problem, just remind me who you are at time and I'll send you a pair.
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Back in 2004 we designed a unique set of pads and gloves that offered top end protection. (2x safer than the top end big brands at the time of testing) and pads hat were far lighter and offered protection at 85mph on a bowling machine when taking one on the shin.
Marketing these properly was ultimately the main restraint in them succeeding in the market place. As we have found with the elements cricket is an industry resistant to any radical change due to the background and history it holds.
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So is everyone happy with the same old same old? If they are, why are they? What's stopping you from trying something different? Is this just the normal aversion to change? If some of the modern stuff was aesthetically better, would you buy it? Why is teh average cricket buyer so staid?
Softs is one of the aspect of equipments with which I'm truly obsessed with for no particular reason whatsoever.
I don't know whether it is physiologically factor or not but colour scheme makes a notable difference in my opinion. I have Puma Iridium FXT which are 2009 model and Puma Iridium FXT 2011, when I put them side by side I can distinction a difference because the newer colour scheme is more attractive and appealing (irrespective of fact that I already know, have carried out this test with many people who don't know anything about equipments and all came to same conclusion), the colour scheme in my opinion is chosen based upon latest fads. Currently I feel bright colours are fads, they catch your eye attention right away.
The modern stuff is often aesthetically better compared to traditional one. They don't fit as well but then thats a separate discussion altogether I feel.
One of the foremost factor that I feel is age. As we get old, we generally get mature. I started playing cricket in 2009 when I was 18, so I was no where as mature as I am today at age of 22. Back in 2009 I used to love modern style pads, they looked all "cool" and I preferred funky type of gear like Newbery's latest bag but now I have disliking towards that. I much rather prefer traditional look with decent colour scheme which is not funky or anything like that. If I had seen those new M&H pads in 2009, I would have loved them but today I detest them.
In 2009 I was extremely picky and would always wanted to have latest and up to date gear, but now I don't mind if I'm wearing a year or so old gear (although some of that instinct is still there where I prefer having latest gear but I can bear old too!)
So I would say age and maturity level has vital role.
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It's interesting that you think modern styles don't fit as well as traditional styles. Why do you think this is? With regard to age and maturity, surely this would drive you to something that offers better protection rather than something that looks old fashioned?
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I am more than happy trying newer styles / looks etc as long as I see merit in the gear, it doesn't bother me what people say or think. Colors/styles? Well i like bright colors (Orange is my favorite) but I also enjoy the simiplicity and "blandness" of a well made product. When using bright colors there needs to be a balance, some people really overdo it...