Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Your Cricket => Topic started by: 19reading87 on November 12, 2012, 10:21:48 AM
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Please explain your reason for voting the way you did
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Its a tricky one, but my answer would be to play the highest level you can on a Saturday, and then (if time/wife/kids etc allow) play the more sociable friendly stuff on a Sunday. I moved clubs about 7 years ago and jumped about 4 leagues - dont regret doing it and enjoy playing the higher level more than I did at the lower level. Wish I had done it sooner as I am getting too old now!!!!
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I have voted for the second option, based on what I am currently doing.
However, I'm 30 and have a young family, which has influenced my thinking on this over the years.
I previously spent 8 years at an ECB Premier League club, where I had a very good 2nd XI record, and a modest 1st XI record - I worked very hard at my game and definitely pushed to be the best player I could be and aspired to play at the highest level I could (though admittedly, having fought my way into the 1st XI on merit, I was never really quite good enough at that level)
I have different priorities in life now though - more responsibilities (and stress) at home and at work mean cricket is more of an escape for me now - I don't have the time that I used to to work on my game, plus to an extent I've been there and done it, playing at the highest level feasibly possible for someone of my ability.
So these days I play for my nearest club, in a smaller, more local league and at a lower standard, and the emphasis is very much on enjoyment.
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this is a difficult one for me and its something im considering at the moment. I started with my club when i was 6 playing in the juniors. ive only ever known playing for them. I keep wicket, Bat at 3 and generally enjoy my cricket with my mates. ive got a mate at another club who wants me to go play for them this year. hes been chasing me for a couple of years and ive always said no. i must admit the draw of playing at a higher level and improving my game is tempting but playing cricket with mates is always a plus point. Im undecided to vote but will be keeping an eye on the results!
its also tempting as at 27 life moves on, i could find i have a kid on the way or a change of job which restricts my cricket. may just toss a coin lol
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don't think it' that simple. Like a lot of things in life, there comes a tipping point where the drive to succeed comes secondary to enjoying yourself. Having kids changes your outlook on life, for example. In cricketing terms it's normally when people realise they won't get any better and there is more to playing than being under constant pressure to perform or pushing yourself to the nth degree. Essentially the fun has gone out of the game. For me that came in the late 20s/early 30s. The benefit to pushing yourself when you are younger is it makes your cricket in the later years so much more enjoyable if you can still perform.
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Highest level, the only thing i enjoy putting effort into
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I realised a while ago that I'm not that good, so I just play for enjoyment now. Coincidentally, when I don't care about how well I perform, I perform better!
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Playing for the Romanian national team, gives me immense satisfaction and pleasure. This year we participated in 8 nations Euro cup and reached the finals. Though age is not on my side (34), I consider myself lucky to play competitive cricket and looking forward to further more years/
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This raises an interesting philosophical point. When you realise that you can never be the best, do you strive to be the best you can, out do you do something you enjoy and strive to be the best at something else? Where do you focus your energy?
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Put enjoy myself as that's what doing now as I've played the higher levels and pushed myself but injury forced me out of that as can no longer bowl in 80's but still playing decent enough level
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This is a tough one, and I can give three or four answers from different stages of my life. When I was young I desperately wanted to play the highest level possible, and ended up getting to borderline first XI standard in one of the top Lancashire Leagues. Then I blew out my ACL and PCL and spent nearly two years on the bench....
...came back and wanted to play at a good standard still. Realised after three years that I enjoyed it more playing with my mates and at a slightly lower level.
...then last year, after a couple of bad years personally, I went on a major fitness drive and started playing quite high level CS cricket as well as league stuff which oddly became my equivalent of Sunday cricket...
In each instance I think the answer is do what feels best to you at the time...
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Ultimately, both are about enjoyment. But I suppose it's better to have a game at any level than no game at all.
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its also important to appreciate that it is supposed to be fun at whatever level.
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This is such a good question.
After playing county youth and prem for a few years, I decided to go back to the club it all started at and try and help them get up the leagues.
I think it comes down to what you get out of playing cricket. If it's the "battle" then playing the highest standard you can is a no brainer. However, if you get enjoyment through improving others (coaches, captains, fathers?) then I think you can get a real sense of enjoyment in the “taking part”, knowing you are part of something bigger.
I still get frustrated when people don't back up properly or drop easy catches but I'm close to the group I play with and have more fun off the field then 8 years playing a good standard.
I think the important thing is if you do go down a few levels then try to keep your standards. Try and represent the league if you can and encourage your team to enter a few club competitions. It should keep you honest. It won’t be the same but it beats 9am meets on a Saturday morning! :)
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This raises an interesting philosophical point. When you realise that you can never be the best, do you strive to be the best you can, out do you do something you enjoy and strive to be the best at something else? Where do you focus your energy?
I think it's when you realise you can't get any better and maintaining that level becomes a chore. I had a few injuries/expanding girth/club changes that radically altered my perception of what I wanted to do. Up until that point I was a borderline TVL Div 1-3s cricketer on my day, but I wasn't enjoying it.
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Im not a good cricketer, So I play for the enjoyment, still aim to improve my game, but will be doing that while enjoying the level im at.
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I voted the enjoyment, because I never have been and never will be a high level cricketer, I enjoy being with my best mates on a Saturday afternoon, them having a few beers, going out and then playing again Sunday. What more could you want, especially when the weather is hot, and the beer is cold :)
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I think that there is also the point that: the higher up the tree you climb, the more of your (No Swearing Please) is on view. :D
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You also find that there becomes a point when you're just making up numbers - that is the one to avoid.
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Looks like a good idea if mine to put this poll up as there is a lot of different views
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You also find that there becomes a point when you're just making up numbers - that is the one to avoid.
Had a few "you are our 9th batsman" or "we need extra insurance of a tail that can bat" comments in the past lol. When you get that far down the pecking order with bat or ball, they are trying to BS you, leave or drop yourself ;) . I spent years batting 8/9 and bowling a few overs because I was a useful "option". Should've kicked off and asked to have played 3s much earlier and got involved in the game.
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I think it depends on what actually makes you happy?
I only started playing 5 years back and whilst i could happily play every week batting and bowling in the two's i really want to see how good you can get with practice.
For some they just want to play score runs and have a crack but i get my reward from achieving something that is thought to be out of my reach. It's almost at times making a rod for you own back but I like playing at a higher level and learn more , often learning quicker as you cant afford to make the same error twice.
But more often than not its down to the lads you share the field with... having moved to Cherwell this year it is to do with the challenge but also as they are a good set of lads that encourage people to do better... even if that person is an old out of shape git like me! ;)
Even if I only ever make it to Div 2 of the cherwell i know i have done the best that i could and enjoyed the journey.
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For me it's all about enjoyment!
I was happy to play 2nd XI last season but ended up playing more often for the 1st XI!
I found it ok, but there is more pressure to contend with and the teams you play against are more competitive and more determined! I don't mind that but they do tend to get a little too much in your face for my liking!
2nd XI (normally, not always) tends to be more laid back and a more enjoyable game in my opinion - at least it is for people my age!! If I was younger then I would probably have looked at playing the highest level possible!
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which Cherwell team have you joined Marcus? Played against a fair few of them.
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There is a side point that you should never play at a level where you end up spoiling the game for the opposition. Its easy to say, oh X is getting on a bit but I have seen in the TVL the odd guy playing for a HCPL side's second XI who is just way too good for the sides he ends up playing against.
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Highest level, the only thing i enjoy putting effort into
What he said lol.
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might go against an anonymous poll but it would be interesting to know the age ranges of the people who voted and what they voted for.
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Had a few "you are our 9th batsman" or "we need extra insurance of a tail that can bat" comments in the past lol. When you get that far down the pecking order with bat or ball, they are trying to BS you, leave or drop yourself ;) . I spent years batting 8/9 and bowling a few overs because I was a useful "option". Should've kicked off and asked to have played 3s much earlier and got involved in the game.
You'll be batting top 6 and first change bowler next season !!!
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Had a few "you are our 9th batsman" or "we need extra insurance of a tail that can bat" comments in the past lol. When you get that far down the pecking order with bat or ball, they are trying to BS you, leave or drop yourself ;) . I spent years batting 8/9 and bowling a few overs because I was a useful "option".
Aye, or being asked to play as a specialist "situation" player - said "situation" being blocking out for a draw...
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not answered the poll,
i had the chance when i was 14 at moving to a better club with propa coaches and it could of moved onto better things for me at the time i just wanted to play with my mates!
ive never once moved clubs ive played at the same club since i was 6 and i love all of them! they are a fantastic set of lads and like my family..
its only recentley as our league has got worse in standard that i feel that i possibly want to leave,
i bat 4 in the 1st team and have been scoring runs, and ive won the league keeping 3 times in a row now.. and ive won a yokrshire keeping award once as a junoir and now as an adult,
thinking about moving onto a high standard, just to see if i can handle it and i feel that in the league i am in now i cant really improve as much
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which Cherwell team have you joined Marcus? Played against a fair few of them.
Abingdon Vale bud, I had to do it! Plus it was right next door to where i played footy for years... It felt like i had collected the set! :D
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I'm mixed with this, having just moved to Surrey from Worcestershire I'm wondering what to do - I have played a game for a club (in Surrey) in which my flat backs onto which is quite handy, however they are only a friendly team and the standard is quite poor. Nice guys and enjoyable however I haven't enjoyed playing for my previous saturday club due to them not netting, not training, struggling for players and not having a great selection policy - So I feel that I should be pushing myself to join a club who take their cricket seriously. I haven't been coached since I was a youngster and I want to be the best player I can.
However there is also a part of me that loves the social side to cricket and realistically that's what I play it for - so I do want to find a happy medium really.
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Abingdon Vale bud, I had to do it! Plus it was right next door to where i played footy for years... It felt like i had collected the set! :D
played at Abingdon 20 odd years ago. Always nice to play a Sunday game out that way.
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Abingdon Vale bud, I had to do it! Plus it was right next door to where i played footy for years... It felt like i had collected the set! :D
We played there on our pre-season tour this year, one of our lads brothers plays there.
I think it depends on the 'enjoying yourself at a lower standard', no real issue with guys playing at a level where they can do OK without training etc, but got very little time for it when I see people averaging 70-80+ with the bat and sub 15 with the bat year after year, that's verging towards bullying IMO :D
At the moment I probably play a touch below my level (think i finished with 25 wickets at 13 this season), but we got promoted so there's no no higher left to go in Norway.
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I voted enjoying my cricket. I returned to playing this season after an absence of nearly 20 years. Having gone to winter nets was asked if I would play for the 3rds, played a game for the seconds and then went in the firsts.
We survived relegation on the last game of the season and stayed up, so what with the weather and only winning 3 times, you can imagine what it was like, but the club were great. They made me really welcome and are a good bunch. Okay home matches is a 15 mile journey but its worth it and at 52 years old I look forward to each game like a 22 year old, just wish my body was like it was 30 years ago.
So I will return to Wightwick and Finchfield in the staffs premier and whatever happens will enjoy my cricket, god willing :)
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I voted enjoying my cricket. I returned to playing this season after an absence of nearly 20 years. Having gone to winter nets was asked if I would play for the 3rds, played a game for the seconds and then went in the firsts.
We survived relegation on the last game of the season and stayed up, so what with the weather and only winning 3 times, you can imagine what it was like, but the club were great. They made me really welcome and are a good bunch. Okay home matches is a 15 mile journey but its worth it and at 52 years old I look forward to each game like a 22 year old, just wish my body was like it was 30 years ago.
So I will return to Wightwick and Finchfield in the staffs premier and whatever happens will enjoy my cricket, god willing :)
I look forward to playing at your ground again next year! glad you stayed up as i couldn't have faced a trip to bloxwich or Springvale
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It's interesting reading the different posts. I think most of us would agree that for whatever reason we play, we all like to do well and win, but if we get a caneing we don't dwell on it too much, well hopefully not, cricket is for most of us something we do in our life not the other way round.
As you can probably work out by my number of posts today that I have a day off. I'm house sitting whilst we have a new kitchen fitted and thought I'd make the most of, quality :)
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Good topic! Going through an interesting time a the moment. I'm 33 and I've got a 7month old son and this has definitely changed the way I feel about whether I'm playing for enjoyment or at the highest level.
Always played cricket at a reasonably high level, Provincial stuff as a junior and then moved on to First Class as well as being a pro in the UK. Reached a stage when I had to realize that I was not gonna make a living from being a Professional cricketer and that was a pretty hard decision to make. Then decided to just play the best level of club cricket that I possibly could. Now although I would love to keep on playing a the highest level I also need to spend time with my wife and son and I cannot play all the matches anymore and I'm thinking of playing social cricket instead. Just not sure if I'll be able to slot into it that easily.
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Very good topic. I fall into the play at highest level possible, but I am one of those people who is ridiculously competitive, probably over competitive at everything. I play 1XI cricket and would regard making 40 for them over an 80 for the seconds, to me its a question of how hard I've work for the runs and the quality I'm facing. However to add to the age debate, I am 18 and whilst my place in the team is secure, but I really want to score big runs, but haven't quite managed yet. Id say im my biggest critic, which adds to the desire to play at the highest level
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For the past three years I have played in the lowest league in Oxfordshire, won it twice and it looks like I will be playing in it again next season. To be honest I quite enjoy it.
Now I am to Old and to Rubbish to play anywhere else!!!
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Now I am to Old and to Rubbish to play anywhere else!!!
Not from what I have seen ol' boy! :D
If you hadn't already committed last season i'd have had you in my first 4 in a flash! 8)
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to be honest you should be able to have both. just ask Chris Gayle!
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I've been told I could player a higher level and have been asked to play for other clubs but staying put because I enjoy it where I am and know if I play at a higher standard it's not necessarily going to get me anywhere.
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I've been told I could player a higher level and have been asked to play for other clubs but staying put because I enjoy it where I am and know if I play at a higher standard it's not necessarily going to get me anywhere.
You're on the up anyway mate so a new standard to test yourself as it is.
I voted for the enjoyment side. Played for the same club all my life pretty much and in that time a few have left to play a higher level but most have ended up coming back having not enjoyed it. Think I'm getting a bit old now too to be trying to push on!
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Good question, having only played 2 seasons after good 12-14 years of not playing I've certainly set myself the aim of playing as high up within the club as I can. Last season was a shocker for me, that was mainly down to my technique rather than anything else. It wasn't until the en of the season when I made a couple of adjustments that I felt better at he crease. As a result I didn't particularly enjoy myself or the pressure I was putting on myself to succeed, which was only magnified when I took on a captaincy role.
I'd like to be able to spend more time on my game and play higher up, but being 34 and with work, fatherhood and everything that comes with it I've realised that I can't and need to settle for enjoying the game and playing to the best of my ability (whatever that might be), which isn't easy for someone who is naturally competitive! I'm hoping that if I can just relax a bit more and with some of the coaching sessions I'm hoping to organise, I'll be able to improve enough to start to enjoy myself more as well.
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Having played the first half of the season in the 2nds, and then moved up to the 1sts for the latter half, I think it is good to test yourself at the higher standard. I was on track for 50 wickets in the season, but then the call came from the 1st team, who already have two quality slow left armers. As expected, didn't get much of a bowl for the rest of the season, but then on the plus side I found myself applying myself to my batting much more, and ended up making several good contributions in the middle order. I know other people at the club who would have stayed at the lower level to take wickets or make easier runs, but my philosophy is to play at the highest level you can for as long as you can. Plenty of time to drop down when you're knocking on a bit and the young bucks come through!
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I think that one of the bugbears for some is that to play at a higher level, you have to establish yourself at that level. This depends on your club policy. If it's one of those (and I suspect there are a few) where if you are promoted to a higher level but are not given much opportunity to bat and/or bowl, I'd imagine that it can get a bit frustrating.
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noted with mickyp that he was on track for 50 wickets until he played in the ones and couldn't get a bowl. That would infuriate me no end. If you go up a level you should be given the chance to do what has got you promoted in the 1st place. That's one of the issues and hurdles to overcome when stepping up. I know one of my team mates moved to a higher level and wasn't allowed to bowl, he missed not doing it and came back.
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Quite. OK, if you open for the seconds you might not expect to open for the firsts, if promoted. But neither should you be expecting to bat 8 or 9 - as can happen.
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That's happened the odd game I've been promoted to the 3's. I usually open, but didn't expect to open in the 3's, maybe come in at 4 or 5, but ended up coming in at 9 with about 2 overs left.
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one of the things my old club were quite strict on when they formed a 2nd XI. If you go up you must be doing the same kind of stuff, ie. batsman bat top 6, bowlers get a run out. Sometimes you have a filler, if they are happy to help out.
Allrounders in particular get abused or pigeon holed as one or the other when they move up a level.
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Last season we had one guy promoted - No. 3 bat and opening bowler for us. DNB x DNB in the firsts, and to be honest he's not the quickest of fielders. I don't think he enjoyed it all that much.
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Its difficult, isn't it. The First XI skipper will obvious want to have his very bet go at winning every game so may not rush to trust new players, but in doing so will never find anything out about them to know whether or not they are up to playing/capable of performing at the higher level, so he ends up trapped in a cycle of rotating the same 12-14 when available regardless of form or attitude. Which, given that the differences in standard are actually pretty minor at most clubs between levels, is a poor way of doing things.
Obviously, there is another factor that affects this, which is that first XI's tend to have a disproportionate number of people who are genuine all rounders - that is to say, people who are good enough to bat top five and bowl 10+ overs per game - because they will have first pick of the most naturally gifted sportsmen. This can mean, as happened when I came to play for my current ide (who were at the time somewhat better than we are now) that you have two opening bowlers who bat one and four (one of whom the kind of guy who would happily reel off 26 over spells most weeks), a first change seamer who hits the ball a country mile and tends to come in five, a slow left armer who opens and an overseas player who bats three, keeps wicket and bowls very good off breaks. That first season, we regularly won games with five or six guys only ever fielding...
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some good points raised. Trying to stay on topic, when you move clubs you have to get "trust" from you new captain and if you get off to a bad start it can wreck your chances. I've been lucky that my first couple of games I've put in my better performances to hoodwink the captain :).
However, if you land yourself with a clique it's an uphill struggle. The 2nd XI I played for years with was like this, it got worse when I became 3rd XI captain and quite often I ended up "fast-tracking" youngsters into the 1s to avoid them being starved of cricket. One story that still makes me laugh is the promising colt opening bowler who went up into the 2nd XI and didn't bowl for 4 weeks in a row, even when the oppo scored 320 against the 2s. When I asked what reason he had been ignored they said "we couldn't find the right time".He eventually came back down to the 3s and about a week later the 1s came knocking for his services. The skipper was pretty sympathetic and said he would give him a bowl. He was true to his word and he opened the bowling for the rest of the season for the 1s! Meanwhile the 2's were still grumbling about him not getting enough "exposure" in the 2s to learn his trade. The lad in question is now an MCC Young Cricketer and 12th man for England on occasions.
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Love that story UKN :D
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UKN, in fairness I was batting top 5 for the 2s as well, it's just that the bowling seemed to click. I went up fully expecting to bowl less, the 1s skipper was very up front about it. Obviously, the captain of the 2s was miffed, but my attitude is that if called up, then you go and do the best you can in whatever role you find yourself. Ended up batting pretty much every week against better quality bowling, so that helped me improve that aspect of my game.
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Ended up batting pretty much every week against better quality bowling, so that helped me improve that aspect of my game.
It's worth doing just for that. - In my limited experience, when I did drop back down it was like having my grandad bowl at me.
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UKN, in fairness I was batting top 5 for the 2s as well, it's just that the bowling seemed to click. I went up fully expecting to bowl less, the 1s skipper was very up front about it. Obviously, the captain of the 2s was miffed, but my attitude is that if called up, then you go and do the best you can in whatever role you find yourself. Ended up batting pretty much every week against better quality bowling, so that helped me improve that aspect of my game.
fair enough if the skipper has been upfront and you are getting involved. If you were on course for 50 wickets, I wouldn't leave it long before you have a word with the skipper. If you are young it's important they develop all your skills and not cherry pick what they need now.
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good standard while you can at a young age, then more sociable when your on the down-slope of ability.
both together if possible.
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I'm in my 30s, but have had a 10 year hiatus from cricket while living in London. Another reason why I wanted a crack at it, not getting any younger! I played to a good standard in junior cricket and at uni, so it was more like a return after a long absence!
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all depends on your age i think
as a youngster you shoudl always push yourself to the maximum .... one you hit early 30's i think its time to take a step back and help the youngsters through.
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all depends on your age i think
as a youngster you shoudl always push yourself to the maximum .... one you hit early 30's i think its time to take a step back and help the youngsters through.
Dont really agree with this - I made the move to a higher standard at 35, and have been holding down a first team spot at a higher level for the last 7 years (and hoping to do so again next season)....
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I'm actually moving to a higher standard next season. I've been with my current club for ten years and feel i need q change. I'm 29, 30 in December so not getting any younger and don't want to regret doing it. I really enjoy playing with my current team but the combination of poor tracks and the lack of training frustrates me. This new club plays in a better standard and they train twice a week (all 3 men's teams plus 3 junior teams). I just think it's the push need. If I don't enjoy it then I'll move back so I've nothing to loose.
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which club ryan?
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Well, I heard Lancashire were struggling? :)
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which club ryan?
It's Wakefield thornes, 1st team play in the central Yorkshire prem and 2nds play in division 1. I'll be starting in the twos and batting 4/5 and bowling now and then. Maybe progress into the firsts if I'm good enough.
Postcode is WF2 7RY if you want to check it out.
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be sad to see u go mate but i know why ur doing it :) and i feel the same as you but id only leave to play a better standard and its hard for me to kick a keeper out
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you'd be ok at Headingley Simdog, Manton can't keep anyway :D
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lol
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you'd be ok at Headingley Simdog, Manton can't keep anyway :D
Like haha
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i did say tho id only leave for a better standard? not to go play micky mouse cricket in the wetherby league
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we are nearly in the big time - Div3 now lol. Play Airewharfe teams on a Thursday, can't ask for much more than that.
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yes but ur thursday team is not same as the weekend team :) i do enjoy playing on a thursday cos standard is much better :)
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It's Wakefield thornes, 1st team play in the central Yorkshire prem and 2nds play in division 1. I'll be starting in the twos and batting 4/5 and bowling now and then. Maybe progress into the firsts if I'm good enough.
Postcode is WF2 7RY if you want to check it out.
Played there 3s in a friendly in 2009:-
http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/headingleycricketclub/s/match-report-12702.html?fixture_id=134063&official=0 (http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/headingleycricketclub/s/match-report-12702.html?fixture_id=134063&official=0)
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I've always wanted and tried to play the highest standard possible
Did my time in my old clubs 2nd XI from the ages of 13-21, opened the batting, kept wicket and eventually captained the side. Was overlooked for the 1sts for a number of years despite topping the averages regularly as 'the 2nds needed a keeper'.
Eventually saw the light about 3 years ago and changed clubs. I've been in the 1st XI ever since. I am much more motivated by playing against a high level of opposition and knowing the bowling will be good. I feel its important to have goals/aims to keep you competitive.
I'm sure there will be a time when I'm ready to drop down and stroke a few balls around for a leisurely 50 and then stand at slip for 40 overs but I havent quite reached it yet
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Played there 3s in a friendly in 2009:-
[url]http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/headingleycricketclub/s/match-report-12702.html?fixture_id=134063&official=0[/url] ([url]http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/headingleycricketclub/s/match-report-12702.html?fixture_id=134063&official=0[/url])
Think he's know as BOOM BOOM, too good for the thirds but can't get in the seconds as he's classed as an overseas player. Supposed to have a good eye though.
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Played there 3s in a friendly in 2009:-
[url]http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/headingleycricketclub/s/match-report-12702.html?fixture_id=134063&official=0[/url] ([url]http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/headingleycricketclub/s/match-report-12702.html?fixture_id=134063&official=0[/url])
there 3rds our in are pontefract div7 i think
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there 3rds our in are pontefract div7 i think
I'm sure they play div 8
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I'm sure there will be a time when I'm ready to drop down and stroke a few balls around for a leisurely 50 and then stand at slip for 40 overs but I havent quite reached it yet
Yeah, good luck with that. Unless you drop a long long way you are unlikely to be gifted scores like that...
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agree. Unless you are talking about playing village sunday afternoon leisure cricket you won't get it easy. In some leagues (TVL for example), there isn't much between the teams in 2 or 3 divisions. I've seen 1st teamers get treated with little respect in 3s games.
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I'm sure there will be a time when I'm ready to drop down and stroke a few balls around for a leisurely 50 and then stand at slip for 40 overs but I havent quite reached it yet
but that is what I try to do at whatever standard I can play!! :D
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agree. Unless you are talking about playing village sunday afternoon leisure cricket you won't get it easy. In some leagues (TVL for example), there isn't much between the teams in 2 or 3 divisions. I've seen 1st teamers get treated with little respect in 3s games.
Quite - last season we had a game rained off and I umpired for our threes in division 9 and the opposing openers, whilst probably at a combinde age of about 90, would give most batsman headaches - one bowled beautiful left arm cutters and didn't concede a boundary in 26 overs (to be fair, the same guy took 50+ wickets in D1 a few years back) and the other was right arm outswing and would have had eight for not many if his slips could catch.
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Reminds me of a game I umpired a while back. Our 1st XI keeper/batter needed to prove his match fitness for Bucks after coming back from injury. It hammered down with rain and the only 2 or 3 games were on in the entire league, one being our 3rd XI. The oppo had the sight of top order minor counties batter opening against them. Helped by a typical 3rd XI green mud heap, they still kept him down to 40 odd :)
Anyway, back on topic. The original question was made in the context of playing a decent level of cricket and stepping up a level. I don't think it implied that enjoying your cricket meant being farmed out to the village friendly XI. Has anyone else moved up a level and changed clubs or gone the other way.
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I'm sure there will be a time when I'm ready to drop down and stroke a few balls around for a leisurely 50 and then stand at slip for 40 overs but I haven't quite reached it yet
........someone's got a very high opinion of their own ability......
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I averaged over 50 in each of my last 3 seasons at 2nd team level so I'm just being realistic
As I said I'd rather play as high a level as I possibly can and still be worth my place in the team
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agree. Unless you are talking about playing village sunday afternoon leisure cricket you won't get it easy. In some leagues (TVL for example), there isn't much between the teams in 2 or 3 divisions. I've seen 1st teamers get treated with little respect in 3s games.
Our twos, threes and fours have very little between them. I played fours last season due to lack of good availability, but cause our twos batsmen all kinds of trouble.
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There is a noticeable difference between our 1sts and 2nds league. The intensity is lower and you rarely have to do anything outside of the orthodox to score runs at a healthy rate
Any of the top 7/8 in the 1sts would be confident of averaging 50 in the 2nds. Our previous captain dropped down this year after some bad form and had runs straight away and even took 4-fer in one game!
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what league are we talking about here? I know the Wetherby League was a bit like that, ie. a bit of a gulf between standards. However that was a village league and quite often you'd come across teams made of colts/women such was the struggle to get 11 2nd XI players out.
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Sounds very similar. Incidentally I played against a girl this year, she didn't bat but kept wicket and was exceptional
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Nick, from the little you've seen - how did you rate our league??
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Nick, from the little you've seen - how did you rate our league??
as you said I haven't seen much of the Division. Based on bit of 2 games and the one I competed in, I would say it's a decent 2s level. Not the highest 2s cricket I've played (TVL3) but certainly better than alot of lower league Wetherby stuff. Then again, I didn't watch or play a game against the top 4 so it could be better than I think (btw - it's good enough for me!). As a league I imagine it's pretty competitive higher up in 2/1/Prem and probably isn't too far off most other leagues. From my limited experience of the Midlands leagues, I played Old Fit Men Moseley who are Mosely Asfield of the Warwickshire CL and looked a decent side. However, bowled ok and scored some runs. Faced a lad from Bourneville of the WCL who was A little sharp as well.
As I wander around the country playing in different leagues I do notice distinct differences. In Yorkshire, it's very much a 2 team club structure and quite often the 2s are there solely to make up the numbers ie. the difference between the 2 teams can be huge. For example East Leeds 2nd XI playing in one of the big leagues in yorks, the Central Yorks League, were hammered by Headingley 2s who play Div 6 Wetherby Village League Cricket. Playing in other leagues like the Sussex Invitation/TVL the difference is far less pronounced as clubs have 3/4/5 teams. Effectively the 2nd XI has greater competition for places and a greater player pool. Quite often the main difference between teams in different leagues is the personnel not the standard.
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Interestingly I've done similar journeys to Nick but in reverse - my formative cricket was in the York Senior & NYSD leagues, then a bit in the Lancashire/Northern Premier before settling in the TVL.
With a few notable exceptions, its true that clubs in Yorkshire don't really have much strength below first XI level - in the York Senior it was only SHB and Woodhouse Grange whose 2's were promoted high enough to play against 1st XIs - and rarely have more than two sides. I suspect this is partly due to the sheer number of clubs and intense competition between them, together with the fact that that does not leave significant numbers of vacant fields for the 3s/4s etc to play on...
"Dahn Sauth" is a bit different and the differences between sides are pretty negligible (though in the stated TVL there is a big leap between Division One and everything below as the paying ofplayers kicks in) - and clubs tend to be bigger organisations with several teams, often with some pretty intricate politics between them. Average ages of players also tend to be higher, with less of a push for the 30 somethings to clear places in the ones.
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I have been fortunate enough to go through the leagues in Dorset (same Leagues as Liam-Sccc). Starting in Div 8 and 7 for our second's and filling in for the 1sts in Div 5.
Then a year skippering the 2's. Managed to bag 30 wickets, the last being in my 12th (last) over on the last day of the season!
Then got asked to step down from captaincy, and take the move up to the 1sts. I struggled at first but then stepped up my own training and netting and we have worked our way through from Division 4 to finding our level in Division 2. I can honestly say, they could mix up divisions 2,3 and 4 and you wouldn't tell much difference. The only thing I have noticed in div 2 is that all teams have genuine change bowlers.
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From my limited experience of the Midlands leagues, I played Old Fit Men Moseley who are Mosely Asfield of the Warwickshire CL and looked a decent side. However, bowled ok and scored some runs. Faced a lad from Bourneville of the WCL who was A little sharp as well.
Who did you play for in the WCL? I've played for Bronze CC basically my whole life until this year but moved down to play for Cheltenham in the WEPL
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played a Sunday friendly against them but they had most of their Saturday lads playing. Play with Reds in the Cotswold Hills League.
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Oh right, they're not a bad side, I always do well at their place though, got a 7fer last time I played there haha
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first deck in a while where timing the ball wasn't an issue :) . I imagine you are a seamer, can't see the spinners getting much out of it.
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Yeah I'm a seamer. Its one of the nicer places to go and play in the WCL, always have high scoring games there
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Yeah I'm a seamer. Its one of the nicer places to go and play in the WCL, always have high scoring games there
Cheltenham eh? Might be seeing you next year, I play for Minehead.
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I have played in the lancshire
Interestingly I've done similar journeys to Nick but in reverse - my formative cricket was in the York Senior & NYSD leagues, then a bit in the Lancashire/Northern Premier before settling in the TVL.
With a few notable exceptions, its true that clubs in Yorkshire don't really have much strength below first XI level - in the York Senior it was only SHB and Woodhouse Grange whose 2's were promoted high enough to play against 1st XIs - and rarely have more than two sides. I suspect this is partly due to the sheer number of clubs and intense competition between them, together with the fact that that does not leave significant numbers of vacant fields for the 3s/4s etc to play on...
"Dahn Sauth" is a bit different and the differences between sides are pretty negligible (though in the stated TVL there is a big leap between Division One and everything below as the paying ofplayers kicks in) - and clubs tend to be bigger organisations with several teams, often with some pretty intricate politics between them. Average ages of players also tend to be higher, with less of a push for the 30 somethings to clear places in the ones.
Who did you play for in the lancashire league mate
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worth a read from Martin Crowe, basically reminding players that cricket is every bit an individual sport as a team sport.
Without a dream to chase, the soul stagnates. Without a dream, individual expression stalls as it looks around for an avenue, a release, a path to go down. Dreams are what move us forward; without them we are stuck. That's what I believe.
As the profound American philosopher Henry David Thoreau said in the 19th century: "Do not lose hold of your dreams or aspirations. For if you do, you may still exist but you have ceased to live."
Over the last decade watching cricket in New Zealand I have noticed a change, a massive shift, in the development of our young men, our cricketing soldiers.
The change occurred with the formation of the players association in 2002. While the intention of better this and better that was the war cry, the reality was that each individual who signed up gave up his ability to grow and to blossom into something unique.
Each man became programmed to the collective cause. Each player fell into line, trusting a new way that promised an abundance of riches and protection from all evils. They asked for more resources and more facilities, and they looked away from the greatest tool of all - their own ability to dream big.
When they signed up, they gave away their freedom to express themselves. Their personal dreams became irrelevant. They were squeezed to one side, crushed by the desire to stick with the programme - the conditions, the clauses, the resources, all under the almighty collective.
What we have seen since in New Zealand's game on the field is a mirrored approach, a cloning of ways, a method of asking for more assistance from outside. We see no one individual looking within and in doing so reaching out to new horizons, new frontiers. Most of all, they aren't inspiring the young to dream big either. New Zealand cricket has ceased to live.
My memories of the men I joined as a young tyro are still fresh. These were players who had individual expression and purpose. They belonged to no one; they were free and secure in the knowledge that playing cricket for New Zealand was a badge of honour. Each knew it wouldn't last too long and that the privilege of wearing the blazer was symbolically borrowed and protected. It was worn with immense pride.
Each had a badge of his own: Bruce Edgar was tenacious, John Wright true grit, Jeremy Coney was theatrical, Jeff Crowe silky smooth, John Reid an artist, Andrew Jones unique, Richard Hadlee a genius, Ian Smith a natural, Warren Lees fatherly, Stephen Boock bold, Evan Gray steely, John Bracewell a bully, Ewen Chatfield honest, Lance Cairns resourceful, and Martin Snedden smart and thoughtful. These were men who stood their ground for good long periods. They fought the fight for their country; they played with their hearts and they believed in their dreams.
During a rich period through the 1980s, New Zealand did not lose a Test series at home for over a decade. We didn't always win but we never gave an inch. It was a bunch of individual spirits joining at the hip to throw off all challengers. This was not a group joined by a document. The blazer was a symbol of manning up.
We weren't a "mafia", as Stephen Fleming likes to refer to us. We weren't dysfunctional either. We were simply living that moment, together. It was unwritten.
Today the collective has killed off that natural right to grow and flourish, to dream and reach out. Ross Taylor is the only one I know who wants to be the best in the world, the best batsman in his nation's history. It's a worthy pursuit. The chances are he will get there one day. Without it he stops living as a cricketer.
Young men need to dream big. They need the chase. They need the pursuit. What they don't need is to sit around a lobby. Set them free. Let them live.
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Do you have the link, reading it 5 words to a line is melting my brain. Thanks
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www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/596834.html
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fixed it
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Much appreciated guys.
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Very interesting read
The pros and cons of modern times eh
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This is a situation I am currently facing. It's a big decision I have to say. Someone earlier said about choosing between having to battle for your runs or scoring a leisurely 50, I actually know what he means. Not saying every week you can score 50 without trying but over the course of the year you'd find yourself scoring big runs without actually having to take any risks, which is different to higher levels as the bowlers/fielders make you take risks to break the shackles etc.
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Don't worry about standard play on th best decks possible i say of your a batter
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I have both, I am greedy though.
I play with a friendly team which is made up of brilliant people and is really good fun.
I also play league cricket and have gone from no.8 in my first season to no.3 last year and I am opening next week for the 2s.
If you can find both options you are onto a real winner.
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Playing at a lower standard and enjoying yourself is the way to go unless you are being paid ect, at the end of the day you take out time of your life to play cricket, if you aren't enjoying it then it isn't the greatest experience, you only keep pushing yourself if there is a goal at the end of the tunnel e.g county/semi pro cricket where money gets involved. I'm completely the opposite when it comes to football though, as you get paid more the higher levels you go it is a sure bet to push yourself. It all depends on what you want from the game really.
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I made a post late last year/beginning of this, saying I wasn't enjoying my cricket (and reasons for). Not long after that I injured my side and couldn't bowl for a few months and as a result I could only play as a bat. I asked to be dropped into the lowest team, as I hadn't batted higher than eight or nine and didn't think I could hold my own as a bat in a higher grade, regardless what other teammates were saying. As a result, I started to really enjoy my cricket again and rediscovered a bit of the love that was starting to wane. So enjoying my cricket is the key for me now, whereas a year or two ago it would've been more important to push myself and try to play at the highest level I could.
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Difficult one. One player can influence a game in cricket more than in other team sports. Play T20 against a village side who have one guy who opens the batting and skippers the villages weekend 1sts.
Proceeds to usually hit a ton off about 12 overs and its an open secret that he is competition with a mate to see who can get the highest average every year, across all forms of the game.
No problem you might say. But they typically finish 180-220 for 1 or 2, leaving a lot of young players, who play midweek only, not getting a bat. In this case, I think he shouldn't be playing and I tell him as much whenever I'm fielding. Nothing nasty, just "where do you want the next one?", "how's the average going? Let me know and I'll tell you what it is ball-by-ball" and "those kids are learning a lot from 100 yards away." I think I even suggested his mum must be very proud last time...
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I think you can go too far the other way - Big Fish Small Pond. For me if a guy averages 50-60+ he probably needs to think about going up a level and possibly under 10 with the ball. You would hope they want to challenge themselves enough to move, but also realise they limiting other people's participation and enjoyment.
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Difficult one. One player can influence a game in cricket more than in other team sports. Play T20 against a village side who have one guy who opens the batting and skippers the villages weekend 1sts.
Proceeds to usually hit a ton off about 12 overs and its an open secret that he is competition with a mate to see who can get the highest average every year, across all forms of the game.
No problem you might say. But they typically finish 180-220 for 1 or 2, leaving a lot of young players, who play midweek only, not getting a bat. In this case, I think he shouldn't be playing and I tell him as much whenever I'm fielding. Nothing nasty, just "where do you want the next one?", "how's the average going? Let me know and I'll tell you what it is ball-by-ball" and "those kids are learning a lot from 100 yards away." I think I even suggested his mum must be very proud last time...
ha! The mum quote is brilliant
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Highest Possible.
I can't understand players who go and blast a ton every other week against poor opposition. Being a big fish in a small pond doesn't appeal to me at all. I think it says a lot about the person themselves.
I could drop down and play seconds or to a local league and get bags full of runs, but I'd much rather test myself against professionals and good quality players even if I do end up with half as many runs. I got to play against Amjad Kahn at the weekend and think it's great. He's lightyears ahead of me and I get to be on the same pitch!
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I think you can go too far the other way - Big Fish Small Pond. For me if a guy averages 50-60+ he probably needs to think about going up a level and possibly under 10 with the ball. You would hope they want to challenge themselves enough to move, but also realise they limiting other people's participation and enjoyment.
Exactly.
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im rethinking the level i play at, i initially went to help out and coach a new team that had formed. We came 2nd in both seasons but i realise i am basically propping up the batting single handedly ... average 149 and 120 opening the batting in my 2 seasons.
the key moment came when i played agaisnt someone from the league above, 5 years ago i would have murdered his bowling but it seemed to me that i had lost the magic through playing at a lower standard.
I think next year i will ditch the coaching role and go back to the top league to take up a challenge i was set by the premier league golden boy who thinks a 40 average is brilliant and wins player of the year most years.
I will need a full winter of batting, so im going to buy a BOLA and maybe use that to coach my old team as well so not to let them down too much.
when im 40 i will have plenty of time to go down the leagues and coach, im only 34 so the eyes and reactions are still working so why not keep testing myself.....
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I reckon batsman mature around late 20s and have until their late 30s before the eyes and reflexes slow against quality bowling. Averaging 100+ is a sure sign you should be playing at a higher level I think!
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We have a lad in our local league who averages 50 or something silly, he plays at my level (actually, below, but still...) and he bats for about 25-30 overs, scores a ton, and they end up 250 odd-2 at teas. In fact, there was a facebook discussion between him and his side over it. However, when he went up to where he should be playing he only averaged 15-20, got found out big-style. He even had the cheek last year, when we played them and we only had 7 players, to tell me after I'd won the toss and batted first (makes sense, no?) that I'm a poor sport and should've let them bat first so he could win the averages. Chasing 70, he got cleaned up for a duck. Gave him a send-off. Possibly my favourite moment of the season!
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Highest. Alwaays. Death or glory!
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I have played some friendlies against some horrible teams this year. Complete. Waste. Of. Time.
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completley stuck in this conundrum myself
47 this year and playing a good standard where my stats have nose-dived last year big time
my team still want me to play for them cos ive got an overall record which is one of the best in my club
oddly enough, at some points last year I played as well as I have done for years,but cannot do it well enough for long enough.
We jumped upto div 1 in our championship by default and the standard is much better.
i will give it half a season and if I really cant get scores consistentley I will have to move to a lower standard
at this moment there is no youngster coming thru in my position(1), if there was i would move to accomodate
very difficult situation for some of us to make a decision this is,glad i'm not alone :)
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the key moment came when i played agaisnt someone from the league above, 5 years ago i would have murdered his bowling but it seemed to me that i had lost the magic through playing at a lower standard.
Great point - you can get into very bad habits playing against lesser opposition...
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I think age has a big say in the poll.
5 years ago it was 'the highest', now it's playing a good standard but enjoying it more.
Maybe my time in the Middlesex league drained some enjoyment.
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I think age has a big say in the poll.
5 years ago it was 'the highest', now it's playing a good standard but enjoying it more.
Maybe my time in the Middlesex league drained some enjoyment.
With age comes wisdom - and arthritis etc. etc. As the late Warren Zevon said 'Enjoy every sandwich.'
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Great point - you can get into very bad habits playing against lesser opposition...
you do. My old club spent 1 very successful season in a league that was disbanding. The next league we joined placed us about 4 divisions lower than we should of been, as we had "only 1 team" at the time (we have 3 now). We, as a club had to get tough Sunday/t20 fixtures to keep us sharp. You'd literally go from playing against 10 kids on a Saturday to a top Barnsley League team on a Sunday,t20 against a Div 1 Airewharfe and then back to a team with 8 men on a Saturday. Took a few beatings outside of Saturdays, but when you play rubbish teams on rubbish wickets you get lulled into a false sense of security!
When I played a good level of TVL stuff I had to be pinpoint precise and do something with the ball. If I served up a half volley or long hop I might as well wave it goodbye. Such were the quality of oppo and decks. Play on poorer wickets and weaker batters and you get away with alot of stuff. That said I didn't enjoy it playing some of the higher TVL stuff, got to the point I would be telling myself not to bowl a bad ball or wishing a catch doesn't come too me. Mentally not a good place to be as you can't relax and enjoy it.
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No point doing it if it isn't enjoyable. ;)
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I think age has a big say in the poll.
5 years ago it was 'the highest', now it's playing a good standard but enjoying it more.
Maybe my time in the Middlesex league drained some enjoyment.
agree - I think I said a few pages back the older folks might take a more "enlightened" view with the benefit of experience. Not to say playing at the highest level is wrong, but knowing when you are too good or not good enough is as important. Doesn't mean you drop down 10 divisions but enjoyment comes from participation.
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agree - I think I said a few pages back the older folks might take a more "enlightened" view with the benefit of experience. Not to say playing at the highest level is wrong, but knowing when you are too good or not good enough is as important. Doesn't mean you drop down 10 divisions but enjoyment comes from participation.
Well put
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I think it's about what you want from the game. If you want to be able to brag about being a x or y level then you chase levels. If however you just want to play good cricket, around your level (so say getting a 50 if batting is actually an acheivement or 3/4 wickets is hard work) then that's probably the perfect level for you. If you genuinely find it easy to score 50+ runs most weeks or bowl 4/5/6/7 wickets most weeks then you either like being the big fish or are playing too low down. This I feel will bring your own level down so when you do come up against decent batting/bowling you'll find you get found out very quickly.
Each to their own though, some players like to know they can just rock up , bat up the order and get decent runs week in week out and bowl 8+ overs for not many runs and get wickets. LIke I said, depends if you want to brag or not.
PS - I've gone for the half and half. Looking for where will give me the most game time BUT also a test. 2 league innings so far and opened in both.. 105* and 51*.. My theory suggests its currently to low a level but I'm thinking/hoping the oppos improve as the season goes on as I can't believe either I'm that good or this level is that bad!
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agree - I think I said a few pages back the older folks might take a more "enlightened" view with the benefit of experience. Not to say playing at the highest level is wrong, but knowing when you are too good or not good enough is as important. Doesn't mean you drop down 10 divisions but enjoyment comes from participation.
A good point, well presented! (that's an Army saying and not a comment on your impeccable grammar ;-)
My wife tells me that I don't need to prove anything anymore when it comes to cricket. Her excuse I am sure to encouraging me to throttle back a tad. White line fever still reigns, even if I am a tad slower these days.
It is nice to mix it up and not have the weekly slog of thrashing your ageing frame.
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As a less than average cricketer, I am only in the game for the enjoyment and fun of it.
Having developed my keeping over the last few years I have bounced between 2XI and 3XI, more through shortness of players than ability or any other reason. Without a batting bone in my body, I usually am the start of the tail if not the end of the tail. However, I look forward to the cricket season all year round. Playing Football at a very high standard I enjoy the transition to cricket during the Summer.
I don't think I could play at the level of our 1st Team due to the amount of pressure and the standard of the cricket. I have always accepted I will never be an outstanding cricket. Although I wouldn't say I lack the ambition, I personally believe that I wouldn't be a useful team asset at a higher standard, therefore would rather enjoy my complimentary 5 runs batting at 9 for the 3rd team.
On the other hand, as a youth development coach for my club, I do strive to develop our youth players, possibly due to my personal failures at that age and knowing what is achievable.
Sorry for the rant
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after growing up through the age groups at the club where a few family members had played for years (as it is with most cricketing families) and establishing my self in the 1st as a 16 year old playing div 1 then ecb premier as it was changed to playing with mates that i had grown up with through the age groups etc then came a stage when relegation followed relegation and ended u in div 2 by now many had grown up families kids jobs at where ever the uni was and even the odd one decided on another country
After a few years of captaincy and a few years of different clubs asking to come here or there i decided it was time for me to fly the nest of my family club and get back to highest standard i could play
in a round about way of playing with mates or highest standard i have now gone full circle of playing with original mates to a high standard to now playing high standard with new bunch of mates
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I would play at the highest level, I am way too competitive and at this stage too committed to my cricket to play at a lower level, I find myself anxious to see what the higher leagues have scored etc etc
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This is what it can feel like at the top. Some perspective for us mortals -
http://theoldbatsman.blogspot.in/2013/05/letting-go.html (http://theoldbatsman.blogspot.in/2013/05/letting-go.html)