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Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: 100 not out on November 25, 2012, 05:36:07 PM

Title: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: 100 not out on November 25, 2012, 05:36:07 PM
Why are all of the o/s cleft bats  ive seen, grade 2/3 from a looks perspective. I have yet to see a good looking o/s bat. Anyone seen any?..

Is it just a way of offloading g2/3 for a premium?
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on November 25, 2012, 05:44:59 PM
Is it down to the trees being cut at an early age?
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Dan W on November 25, 2012, 05:47:13 PM
The distinction I have is G1...I think they (OS clefts) are that rare (and getting more popular) that the 'good' ones will be rocking horse droppings. Maybe M&H had a real competitive advantage once upon a time by spotting their demand early on - certainly the ones I've seen in the last year haven't been of similar standard to the 2010/11 ones.

I don't think they can say it's a way of offloading g2/3 willow - it's a fundamental different cut (and for most involve completely bypassing your supplier that's been used for a gazillion other clefts)
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Chad on November 25, 2012, 05:56:09 PM
Maybe it's complete luck?  ??? I assume they cut a very small number of trees down for OS clefts, so the number of G1 clefts are obviously more scarce. Since there are HUGE numbers of normal sized clefts being supplied, there will also be more G1 clefts in regular size. I think you get less clefts out of the tree, so I can only assume they can't afford to waste too many! :-[
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: BakarooBonzai on November 25, 2012, 06:04:02 PM
Do you mean O/S cleft as in, a cleft cut to a larger size?  If so H4L Temp bat that was posted on the forum by matt looks really nice (Also on his website).  Distinctions are low density clefts, which are rare (1 in 500 according to them).  My distinction is a grade 2 but looks pretty good for that grade.  The best bat I ever had, goes like a cannon.  I've seen some G1 distinctions on the forums but you are correct they may not be the best lookers, but I imagine if it's anything like mine, it would perform well. 

Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Six Sixes Cricket on November 25, 2012, 08:02:34 PM
Where have you got the " 1 in 500 low density clefts for grade 1 distinctions " from?
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: BakarooBonzai on November 25, 2012, 11:47:20 PM
I couldn't find the original source but I think the "1:500" stat is from the M&H website or from a blog I read.  Then again it just could be marketing blabber from the companies, so wouldn't put too much into it.  I do think they are somewhat rare.  One of the bat makers in the forum will be better suited to answer the rarity of the low density clefts.
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Cover_Drive on November 26, 2012, 04:29:26 AM
Is it down to the trees being cut at an early age?

Being cut at early age, doesn't that also mean that they'll have lower density?

Just assuming, younger it is, less dense it is.
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: tim2000s on November 26, 2012, 07:31:06 AM
Being cut at early age, doesn't that also mean that they'll have lower density?

Just assuming, younger it is, less dense it is.
Not necessarily. Conditions during growth will play the biggest part.
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: norbs on November 26, 2012, 10:09:57 AM
You get G1 oversize if you ask and pay for it

You are also over complicating stuff....  An oversized cleft is just a different cut size so you get less clefts from the tree if it was all split into oversized clefts [therefore the cost increase]
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: norbs on November 26, 2012, 10:17:40 AM
PS: I know this line is the pot calling the kettle black  :D

You are also over complicating stuff....
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Number4 on November 26, 2012, 10:19:08 AM
You get G1 oversize if you ask and pay for it

You are also over complicating stuff....  An oversized cleft is just a different cut size so you get less clefts from the tree if it was all split into oversized clefts [therefore the cost increase]

So you are saying the consumer in general isn't asking for G1 oversize clefts so that's why we don't see them?
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Buzz on November 26, 2012, 10:21:34 AM
but given most players like a bat weighing less than 2lbs11, is there that much of a need for an oversized cleft?
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Kulli on November 26, 2012, 10:27:14 AM
I think there's some confusion between oversized clefts and low density ones here.
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: norbs on November 26, 2012, 10:33:29 AM
So you are saying the consumer in general isn't asking for G1 oversize clefts so that's why we don't see them?


Nope it is a fairly new thing in the world of cricket...  So the consumer in the wider world will not be aware of it!

It is the bat makers that aren't asking from them so the willow suppliers dont stock them.

have a look here....

http://www.cricketinsight.co.uk/2012/11/05/jeremy-ruggles-of-j-s-wrights-big-bats/

but given most players like a bat weighing less than 2lbs11, is there that much of a need for an oversized cleft?


If the market continues to drive for larger edges and super high spines expect alot of concaved oversize clefts [with the odd light one as an exception]


PS: To throw something in the mix

In general wider grains clefts are lighter then close grains clefts
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: ajmw89 on November 26, 2012, 10:44:15 AM
In general wider grains clefts are lighter then close grains clefts

Is that to do with the change in density caused by fast growth?
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Fezballoh on January 15, 2013, 07:35:56 AM
I'd have a punt at it being because the grains get pushed closer together as more grains/rings are added over the years. The timber between each grain is compressed making for denser willow. This really spoils things for people looking for a cleft with 20 twenty straight grains that looks like it weighs 4lbs but only weighs 2'10"!

Funny, the more I read about all the timber tech associated with this, the more I'm convinced it has more to do with how good the batter is at batting than anything else. I'd heard that Albert Trott story before (they bang on about him on TMS a lot as he was the current Trotts great great grand father or something) and it supports this theory somewhat!
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Simmy on January 15, 2013, 08:12:59 AM
i got a few oversized 1's from matt at H4L

a g1 cleft is aroung 90 posted i think it was

for the oversized one it was 100 but this was about a year ago.

only difference is the size of the cleft thats it ...

its just cut much bigger to make a bigger bat.

in my case it was made into a distinction style bat as we wanted a massive spine and small edges. johnny now has it wish i would of kept it.
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Johnny on January 15, 2013, 08:20:01 AM
I could be persuaded to part with it for the right price Simmy :D
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: fatbats on January 15, 2013, 08:25:00 AM
Our new mayhem bats are made from oversized clefts and its as simmy says same clefts just cut bigger so have more play with the profile
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: Simmy on January 15, 2013, 08:30:19 AM
I could be persuaded to part with it for the right price Simmy :D

more than what i could get one made for i assume!
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: tim2000s on January 15, 2013, 08:41:42 AM
Funny, the more I read about all the timber tech associated with this, the more I'm convinced it has more to do with how good the batter is at batting than anything else. I'd heard that Albert Trott story before (they bang on about him on TMS a lot as he was the current Trotts great great grand father or something) and it supports this theory somewhat!
You're a rarity - you've been on the forum a week and you've reached the conclusion that many still don't believe... ;)
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: norbs on January 15, 2013, 01:17:22 PM
Hi (http://www.hatsandcaps.co.uk/images/products/medium/193300.jpg)

Take a look at this

http://www.whichcricketbat.com/cricket-bat/cricket-bat-voodoo-willow-and-performance (http://www.whichcricketbat.com/cricket-bat/cricket-bat-voodoo-willow-and-performance)

and then this

http://www.whichcricketbat.com/cricket-bat/cricket-bats-is-it-important-to-understand-the-willow (http://www.whichcricketbat.com/cricket-bat/cricket-bats-is-it-important-to-understand-the-willow)
Title: Re: Oversized Cleft Bats and looks
Post by: farnham_quins_2 on January 26, 2013, 03:19:10 PM
The Blank Bat I just bought is from an oversized cleft and is the distinction profile. Has a massive spine, I love the shape of it! Cant tell you about performance yet as its being knocked in