Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: safbats on November 27, 2012, 11:52:36 AM
-
Limit this to 20 questions
If you like this thread donate something even small amounts help! [paypal is accepted by the guys at Movember land]
http://mobro.co/andysafbats
Fire away ....
-
Is there a best "grain:ping" ratio from your experience and in your opinion?
-
What is the best way to manage unwanted vibration in the creation of a bat?
-
Oversize pro grade light weight clefts - myth or truth ?
If they exist, do you use them ?
-
does it matter which end of a cleft the handle goes - and if not, how do you choose?
-
does it matter which end of a cleft the handle goes - and if not, how do you choose?
Everyone knows the handle goes in the top Buzz ;)...
-
Why not make a totally flat brick on a stick paddle, and not bother trying to shape a spine, scoop, twin scoops, concaving, etc? Would it make any difference?
-
What sort of sound should you be looking for when you tap up a blade? (ither with mallet or finger)
-
Could you do audio files of good sounding bat/cleft vs poor sounding one? where is the pic of your Mo
-
Is there a best "grain:ping" ratio from your experience and in your opinion?
around 8 Grains is the easiest to get right
I say that because the pressing leaves you with enough volume to work with to make a good size bat and it reacts well to the press as well so you arent deadening the willow from the pressure
Once you move up and down from here your really need to change the way you do stuff...
-
What tool do you find most useful/biggest pain in the rear when making a bat?
-
Once you move up and down from here your really need to change the way you do stuff...
Supplementary question - how?
-
What is the best way to manage unwanted vibration in the creation of a bat?
Jasus! That is question and a half!!!!
Ok ummmm Cricket Bat willow is a natural fibre reinforced composite!
We know the vessel run through the cricket bat from shoulder to toe. We can see those vessels are layered in the willow itself and mixed with the grain. This longitudinal nature of the willow fibres determine some really important factors in cricket bats. That is, in this vessel orientation and layering we get stiffness.
So what am I talking about, well elasticity and bending frequencies.
Due to the vessel layering it affects those aspects of the cricket bat, this leads to cricket bat performance. I wont go to far into this but here is a snippet. They are both intertwined here, elasticity and bending frequencies.
Ok bending modes of the bat, this is based on the bat shape [profile] and if you take into consideration the excitation range [vibration] of a cricket bat based on impact we know you can raise or lower the bending mode frequencies of a bat based on mass of the blade and handles, in layman terms a gain in performance.
But now you can see the willow itself, the vessel layering and the grain effect this as well and why the pressing of the blade is so important as this adds another composite layer.
----
So in short pressing, its profile shape and handle choice
pain in the ass hey!
-
Oversize pro grade light weight clefts - myth or truth ?
If they exist, do you use them ?
Oversize clefts - Truth [not readily available from the larger willow merchants, Matt H4L splits and creates his own, Matt you owe me for the plug]
Light weight Clefts - Truth [Rare and will be even rarer in oversize clefts due to the number being produced]
Do they exist, potentially in Oversize but more common in std cleft cut sizes
Based on experience 1st class cricketers will want to get big looking bats for the weights they asked for.
Do I use them, No for Oversize but I do get light weight std size clefts
-
does it matter which end of a cleft the handle goes - and if not, how do you choose?
does it matter which end of a cleft the handle goes - and if not, how do you choose?
Bat Makers choice!
Generally based on looks for the handle end, so any pin knot, stains, grain orientation etc will be the end chosen for the handle
Sometimes I like to leave a small butterfly stain in the toe area as it is nice and strong and stops toe breakages better.
-
In your eyes, Are laminates any good?
Broad question I suppose...
-
Why not make a totally flat brick on a stick paddle, and not bother trying to shape a spine, scoop, twin scoops, concaving, etc? Would it make any difference?
Does my answer to you previous question answer this one?
-
What do you think of the theory behind Laver's new handle concept?
-
What sort of sound should you be looking for when you tap up a blade? (ither with mallet or finger)
Easiest way of explaining the sound thing is, using the drum analogy
If the skin on top is the pressing and the space below is the elasticity..
If the skin is just right you will hear a good deep tone and resonance, meaning you have a good stiff layer on top of the blade and good elasticity behind it
If you have a thick skin the tone will be muffled and little resonance
Hope that helps
-
Could you do audio files of good sounding bat/cleft vs poor sounding one? where is the pic of your Mo
Too difficult I reckon Tush, I finger tap with the bat next to my ear... My Mo is scary!!!
-
Does my answer to you previous question answer this one?
I think what you are saying is that the shape of the bat reflects the natural harmonics generated by the fibrous nature of the bat, and as such, at the centre of percussion you are matching the shape to the harmonic. Having a paddle would result in this not being managed and as such is likely to be very uncomfortable to use....
Amongst other things...
-
What tool do you find most useful/biggest pain in the rear when making a bat?
Most useful my tape measure and a pencil, ff I can find the damn things. If you saw the amount I write and draw on every bat I make you will know why!
Biggest pain in the rear travisher never got on with them so switched to a round bottom plane
-
Supplementary question - how?
the pressing pressure applied to the cleft, if you keep the roller fixed and or make small adjustments only you'll get a few you have to down grade based on performance.
once I press a cleft which ever part of the pressing process it is for that cleft I release the roller fully before anything else happens
-
In your eyes, Are laminates any good?
Broad question I suppose...
I've seen a few great ones, few std ones and a few not so good ones.
I can say the same with any std bat made as well
-
That's 10 answers off for a coffee! ;)
-
Sorry I asked too many question
Andy
Do you think you can pick bats at a shop based on performance for the long term we all know bats mature differently
Is it possible to pick on performance at that early stage and to know it will get better and better or is picking on performance a selling tool
-
How long do you spend on average making each bat?
-
What do you think of the theory behind Laver's new handle concept?
Jasus!
I've not really looked if I am honest but James is an excellent bat maker and has an engineering background, he's done a fair few handles so I am sure the theory behind it is sound...
-
I think what you are saying is that the shape of the bat reflects the natural harmonics generated by the fibrous nature of the bat, and as such, at the centre of percussion you are matching the shape to the harmonic. Having a paddle would result in this not being managed and as such is likely to be very uncomfortable to use....
Amongst other things...
A bat is made of a few things profile is just as important as pressing and handles. MMOI is such a big factor to performance it can't be ignored a brick on stick will work but I dont think it will be as good
-
A brick on stick will work but I dont think it will be as good
Isn't it called Newbery Tour?
-
I have seen quite a few of your bats and their offset edges, and from what I've seen, the meat is higher than the thickest part of the edge. Would having the meat lower than the edge have the same effect as increasing the size of the hitting area, and why? I'm guessing that having the middle lower will change the balance of the bat, but I'm not sure. :-[
-
Isn't it called Newbery Tour?
MMi3
-
Sorry I asked too many question
Andy
Do you think you can pick bats at a shop based on performance for the long term we all know bats mature differently
Is it possible to pick on performance at that early stage and to know it will get better and better or is picking on performance a selling tool
*Shop buying*
How bats mature is more to do with how it was made then anything else. If you want something that will come to life quick pick up something with a fair few grains in it and that has a good feel and isnt compressing to much when you hit it with a mallet
If you want something to get good value for money look at a softer bat with a good handle, fewer grains... put the bat on the floor and lean on it you should get some flex in the handle.
Avoid anything the is overly hard [unless you like that sort of bat] it wont loosen up for ages....
For performance picking hold bat behind it middle and tap it with a mallet if you feel/hear a nice deep tone and resonance it should be a cracker!
-
The Tour has a shape to it :D
-
How long do you spend on average making each bat?
probably spend about 1.5hrs on it, if you take out all the waiting for glue drying, starting something else, looking pencils, the right grade sandpaper, turning the radio up or down etc
-
probably spend about 1.5hrs on it, if you take out all the waiting for glue drying, starting something else, looking pencils, the right grade sandpaper, turning the radio up or down etc
Thats interesting - I'd thought in my head that the time overhead would be much greater!
-
probably spend about 1.5hrs on it, if you take out all the waiting for glue drying, starting something else, looking pencils, the right grade sandpaper, turning the radio up or down etc
Haha! Sounds about right... The few I've made, my pencil always seems to get buried under shavings! Although I've got a long way to go to reach hour and a hal. The last one took me about 5 hours
-
I have seen quite a few of your bats and their offset edges, and from what I've seen, the meat is higher than the thickest part of the edge. Would having the meat lower than the edge have the same effect as increasing the size of the hitting area, and why? I'm guessing that having the middle lower will change the balance of the bat, but I'm not sure. :-[
I'm going to get more people doing it now so I should say yes you can do it ;-)
But nope the edge offset and middle is there because of mass moment of inertia [MMOI] and how that effects the centre of percussion based on swing and hand position i.e it moves
If the profile shape was different the physical balance would change as would the [MMOI]
So I design it that way so the swing weight is good due to the mass lower down, balance/pickup is good because I raised the spine because off the willow on the edge. In the back ground I’ve moved the centre of percussion into the hitting middle area so your sweet spot is where you need it when you swing at varying speeds i.e where there the willow mass is.
By creating a less uniform area of willow mass I have meat in a larger area resulting in more value for your shots as well.
-
They say every artist has one piece of art they are most proud of. Is there a bat, or a series that you believe is your "perfect" bat?
-
Thats interesting - I'd thought in my head that the time overhead would be much greater!
If you take into consideration that you do a batch of clefts, handle and pressing, you lose a day here there because of that. You lose a day through glue drying
You then part shape them, toes, shoulders there goes more time as you do a batch.
The shaping of the bat is the only process you do in one go.
If you cut out all the batch processing and waiting it will be about right.
-
I'm going to get more people doing it know so I should say yes you can do it ;-)
But nope the edge offset and middle is there because of mass moment of inertia [MMOI] and how that effects the centre of percussion based on swing and hand position i.e it moves
If the profile shape was different the physical balance would change as would the [MMOI]
So I design it that way so the swing weight is good due to the mass lower down, balance/pickup is good because I raised the spine because off the willow on the edge. In the back ground I’ve moved the centre of percussion into the hitting middle area so your sweet spot is where you need it when you swing at varying speeds i.e where there the willow mass is.
By creating a less uniform area of willow mass I have meat in a larger area resulting in more value for your shots as well.
Ah right, so that's why the Hades is designed the way it is! I get it now. :) Was just wanting to see as I may start experimenting with some part mades!
Thanks for the answer! A really nice thread, as it's always interesting to learn more. Will hopefully be able to drop a donation sometime tonight, or even go for the bat raffle! 8)
-
They say every artist has one piece of art they are most proud of. Is there a bat, or a series that you believe is your "perfect" bat?
As much as I love bats with the offset edges and love the M10 V2 with the flowing C to V profile
The SAF Origin [nee Fabrica] is just a lovely, lovely bat to make and use if you are the right type of player. The 2010 Fabrica in the workshop is one I'd say I was most proud of as it made me the bat maker I am now.
-
Ah right, so that's why the Hades is designed the way it is! I get it now. :) Was just wanting to see as I may start experimenting with some part mades!
Thanks for the answer! A really nice thread, as it's always interesting to learn more. Will hopefully be able to drop a donation sometime tonight, or even go for the bat raffle! 8)
Chad I like to helpout to those starting out on the bat making thing as time allows. My number is on the website please call me with any questions you may have and like I said if I have time I will help
-
Anyone got any idea what question we are on?
-
Chad I like to helpout to those starting out on the bat making thing as time allows. My number is on the website please call me with any questions you may have and like I said if I have time I will help
Thanks for the offer Andy! I will certainly give you a ring when I eventually start shaping some part mades. :D I think that there's no point in shaping a bat unless you understand why you do something!
Anyone got any idea what question we are on?
No idea, but if there's another one, what is the difference between different type of handle materials? I often hear terms like 12 piece construction, or treble sprung, 2 piece, 3 piece, cork and rubber inserts, which is all kind of giberish to me. :-[ Which ones are best for what, and how do you identify such things on the handle? Most I know about handles is whether it is a carbon composite handle, or oval or round shaped. :(
-
Too difficult I reckon Tush, I finger tap with the bat next to my ear... My Mo is scary!!!
Haha no worries I am tone deaf anyways, would have just sounded like two thuds :o
-
No idea, but if there's another one, what is the difference between different type of handle materials? I often hear terms like 12 piece construction, or treble sprung, 2 piece, 3 piece, cork and rubber inserts, which is all kind of giberish to me. :-[ Which ones are best for what, and how do you identify such things on the handle? Most I know about handles is whether it is a carbon composite handle, or oval or round shaped. :(
I was obsessed with handles and looked at them for ages [years], even though I can see small benefits in the various different handles, I did not or have come across anything that would give you a tangible performance benefit.
Most of the stuff I've read about handles and the performance benefits have been written for marketing impact as there are technically incorrect based on the reason for that type of handle.
A decent handle is something that is glued, clamped well and made from good materials. I prefer a stiffer handle some prefer a whippy handle the different types of handle will give you one of the other.
Round, Oval, Square is a preference some say they help reduce twist some say they help you to play more correctly. I'd say on the shape get something that suits you if you play alot with the bottom hand get a shape that suits you as changing the style of play isnt going to change if you make it uncomfortable for yourself on the bottom hand. You are just not going to like the bat
-
I think we are on 17-18 questions answered so far!
Got the odd £2 in your paypal account and not sure what to do with it!!!!!
http://mobro.co/andysafbats
-
3 questions left
This will the be last questions I will answer for a long long time as bat maker
-
Which player (both current & past) would you most like to make a bat for?
If you were to buy a bat out of your own pocket which brand would you choose and why? (It can't be SAF.)
Who do you think is the most impressive up and coming bat maker(s)?
Sorry for so many questions,
Nath
-
3 questions left
This will the be last questions I will answer for a long long time as bat maker
Are you taking a vow of silence?
-
Which player (both current & past) would you most like to make a bat for?
If you were to buy a bat out of your own pocket which brand would you choose and why? (It can't be SAF.)
Who do you think is the most impressive up and coming bat maker(s)?
Sorry for so many questions,
Nath
Player - Johan Myburgh a saffer [probably etc Durham now] the most unfulfilled potential for batsman I've ever seen....
Next 2 questions - Beachcricket [Dave]
-
Are you taking a vow of silence?
Yes that is it for me
-
Can one of the admins lock this thread please....
Dont forget if have the odd £2 [or more] in your paypal account and not sure what to do with it!!!!!
Donate here.....
http://mobro.co/andysafbats
Thanks all
Andy