Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: Tom on June 17, 2009, 11:10:08 AM
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If you are left amazed at batsmen, who hit the ball to incredible lengths of a cricket ground, it could well be due to an illegal willow, says a leading bat manufacturer
Have modern-day batsmen become better hitters than Viv Richards, Clive Lloyd and Ian Botham or have they improved their technique when it comes to big-hitting? We have seen the ball travel some amazing distances off some of the blades in Twenty20 cricket.
According to a leading bat manufacturer, the secret behind some of the biggest hits in Twenty20 cricket could be bats that do not conform to International Cricket Council stipulations. Probably, it's time ICC officials do some thorough monitoring.
"We have these racing car bats where you glue two pieces of wood to have a thick but light bat. That's why you see some of these guys hitting the ball such amazing distances," a top official of a bat manufacturing company from South Africa told MiD DAY recently.
"Many of the current players are using big, thick bats in T20 cricket. It makes the ball travel very, very far. That is why you see these guys hitting such long distances. They are called racing car bats," the
bat expert said.
Not fair
A new bat with two different pieces of wood glued together is illegal, but it's legal if the bat is broken and then repaired. According to the bat manufacturer, batsmen are outsmarting officials by claiming they are playing with repaired bats when they are actually using a new bat.
"They (international players) have to play with Class 'A' bats at this level. They are not allowed to play with laminated bats. When we phoned the ICC to find out whether we should repair them, they said, 'yes, that's fine'. We asked whether a player can play with a repaired bat. They said, 'Yes, he can'. Even if I remove the broken piece of the bat and glue another piece of the bat, will he be able to play with that bat? 'Yes, no problem'. So, if it's a repaired bat then it's legal, if it's new, it's illegal.
"The ball travels much better than one piece of wood," revealed the bat manufacturer.
"We applied paint on the bat so that it looks like one piece but it is actually different material English willow and African coral tree on the back," he said. The magic formula he said was discovered around six months ago. Are other bat manufacturers doing the same? "Many of the other companies are doing the same. They are not supposed to, but they are," the bat-maker said.
Dave Richardson, ICC's General Manager of cricket said that normally match referees can spot an illegal bat, but admitted sometimes it could be difficult to identify without actually sawing the bat. "You would be able to tell whether a piece of wood has been glued to repair a bat or if it's a laminated bat. The match referees do conduct inspections from time to time and sometimes it is very difficult obviously without sawing the bat in order to see whether it is legal or not. But if a player takes a chance and it breaks on the field and he is caught, then he will be in serious trouble," Richardson told MiD DAY over the phone from London.
Revealing why these bats have the extra power, the bat expert said: "To make a bat, you press the wood to compress the top layer in so as to make the willow hard. Then, you take another piece of wood that is not pressed it is soft, and you stick it on the back of the bat.
"Then, the ball goes further like a trampoline and that is the racing car bat, like a Ferrari. These professionals only want to play with that bat. It makes the ball go much further than one piece of wood," he said.
Overall, the current batsmen prefer very thick blades, the manufacturer said. "Their blades are 50mm in thickness. It is a huge difference from the earlier times.
Most of the old bats had 20mm width. Apart from hitting long distances, the other advantage is if you edge, it flies. If you have a thin blade, the edge travels slower."
Richardson was aware of the magic formula which works for these glued bats. "That's right," he said when explained about the trampoline-effect of bats.
"That is one of the reasons why it is not regarded as legal. If there's any specific information regarding specific players, then obviously we will check. We do have inspections and if it is possible to see that it is illegal by the naked eye then obviously we will do something about it," added Richardson.
Elaborating on the ICC law on bat specifications, Richardson said: "The law says that the bat can be made only of wood. It is illegal to use glue on the bat. As soon as you glue two pieces of wood together, they call it a laminated bat. That means you have used some sort of adhesive, which is illegal. If there are bats like that and they are caught using them, then they will be regarded as illegal and players will be charged under ICC's code of conduct."
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2009/jun/170609-Cricket-bats-Illegal-bats-ICC-rules-Rocket-bats.htm (http://www.mid-day.com/news/2009/jun/170609-Cricket-bats-Illegal-bats-ICC-rules-Rocket-bats.htm)
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i want one
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They just need to add a note into the rule saying a piece of wood that is X thickness and x in length is not allow to be glue to bat
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Is this laminated? It's gambhirs bat, Graham smiths is also very very similar
(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww209/aidy1098/photo-23.jpg)
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Looks like a scuff sheet to me.
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Whats all that dark on the back that's what smith has aswell
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In the Ashes all the Aussies had a anti scuff
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In the Ashes all the Aussies had a anti scuff
i mean what is all the dark on the back near the meat of the bat in the middle, smiths bat also has this and i have seen a few others
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Certainly does look darker. Could it not be his bat is mostly heartwood?
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Certainly does look darker. Could it not be his bat is mostly heartwood?
im not sure but it is quite stranger how it is just at the meat of the bat and stops where the meaty bit ends if u get me, ill upload some more pics in a second of it
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(http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww209/aidy1098/photo-24.jpg)
clearly see that that dark bit starts and stops at the meaty bit of the bat, any batmakers know anythin about it?
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It could be a bit added in after, but most laminates I've seen are a thin veneer of wood on the face.
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It could be a bit added in after, but most laminates I've seen are a thin veneer of wood on the face.
yeh i swear i saw on ebay around 7 months ago, a GN Scoop fully refurbished and a chunk added in and was stickered as a nitro it looked very similar to this, so it was a scoop and looked like a normal bat, looked very good and must have been hard to do
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It can be done, Fusion used to do middling bats done in a similar fashion and I had a bat like it.
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It is not a laminate for performance if it is laminated, I have Afridi's match bat here and it is a very crude laminate but boy does it ever ping. The real deal is very rare in the best format, Ricky Ponting is a good man to ask about illegal facing, have a look at his Ashes bats if you can.
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how did you manage to get afridi's match bat :O bet its huge !
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It's a Malik and Mr Malik gave it to me when he came to see me last. About 6 weeks ago, also got what would have been Afridi's new style gloves if he had not left Malik.
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What do you mean by crude mike? A poor joint?
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Ping?????? Dont you mean it takes off like a rocket launcher........makes my laminate look like a peashooter!! Lovely, lovely bat, plus the gloves (which may be one off's due to Mr.Afridi's company shift) are, in my opinion, the best designed gloves coming out for next year!
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anyone inspected pontings ashes bat?? any pics??
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Sorry to bring up and old topic but there has been talk recently on the forum about laminate bats and seeing as it has been mentioned that it is a possibility that some pros use laminates which I find interesting. Has anyone got stories or know of any pros who use laminates?
The picture of Gambhir's bat looks suspicious on page one but I'd be surprised if it was, also I wouldn't mind someone expanding the claim of Ponting's bat being illegal.
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I cannot say too much but an attempt to hide the face was made as it would have been clear on TV what had been done.
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Ok thanks Mike
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he had TONS of tape the edges of his bats
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I missed all of that. Did this happen in 2009 Ashes? I thought Ponting's illegal bat advantage had ended with the banning of graphite...
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A mate of mine who has a sports store once ordered a dozen shers and nearly all of them were laminated. The bats weighing 2lbs 12 or more, were massive and of the kind that would hit the ball as long as it could go. ping was absolutely crazy and definitely anyone who can swing that bat with good bat speed can absolutely bludgeon the opposition.
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do they charge more for a laminated bat?
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Yes they do. Coz there are 2 pieces of willow involved. The difference varies with companies though, may be less with one or a lot with another.
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Please tell me where can I get one?
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Armie himeself sold one a few weeks back in the topic below.......
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=5181.0 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=5181.0)
And Talisman was also talking about the possibility of getting hold of a few of these!!! 8)
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Armie himeself sold one a few weeks back in the topic below.......
[url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=5181.0[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=5181.0[/url])
And Talisman was also talking about the possibility of getting hold of a few of these!!! 8)
I am getting few of these in the next 8 to 10 days
Regards
Asad
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Pete own's that Ishan !
Saw it on sunday, easily bigger than any bat i have ever seen !
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It is a biit mental, isn't it!
It is supposed to be 2'10 but feels lighter.
And is HUUUUGGGGEEEE! I can feel some net sessions coming on!
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Which is the laminated bit on the Ishan, just the ridge?
Are there any "normal "laminates about i.e. more like 50% pf the width.
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I am getting few of these in the next 8 to 10 days
How much will they be?
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theres a big old SF VA-900 laminate or "double-wood" as the seller says on the bay at the moment, looks muchos nice
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Any link - I'm crap at ebay.
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Search sf bat fattus
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stanford-SF-UA-900-DOUBLE-WOOD-Cricket-Bat-SH-NEW-/370376716818?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_SportingGoods_CricketBats_SM&hash=item563c2c3212
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At my old job, we had a bloke come in who wanted his bat refurbed. When we took the A/S off. which was one of them big fibre glass scuff sheets we noticed that he had cut a section of the bat away and placed a thin sheet of rubber, much like the stuff used in the handles and then glued the piece of wood back on. It absolutely went like stink unsurprisingly.
I dont think the bloke played any great level.
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That is genius one of those things you would not be able to tell unless inspected closely other than the performance
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So could you actually cut away the middle of the bat to a depth of 2cm and stick in a piece of firm rubber then cover with tape?
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Yh, if you had the correct tools, bandsaw or coping saw somthing like that id guess you could easily remove a section and place a piece of rubber in it. It was clever but i wouldnt be too keen on bowling to him with it..
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Laminate Photo-shoot Time!!!
Weight is 2'10 - picks up very light and feels more like 2'8ish!
(http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/Isham/Lam01.jpg)
(http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/Isham/Lam02.jpg)
(http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/Isham/Lam04.jpg)
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And more..........
(http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/Isham/Lam05.jpg)
(http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/Isham/Lam06.jpg)
(http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/Isham/Lam03.jpg)
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(http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/Isham/Lam07.jpg)
(http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/Isham/Lam09.jpg)
(http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii471/petehosk/Isham/Lam08.jpg)
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Wow.... thats a big one!
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looks like it has a fair bow on it!
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Pete - is the wood on the back of the bat definitely willow? I only ask as i have seen other laminates that have used poplar as the second bit of wood for the lamination, as it is extremely light and gives a massive profile.
I wouldnt have thought this was the case for this bat - but some pakistan companies have done this in the past.
The bat is definitley a whopper, no doubt about that!!!
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Sorry but it looks ugly, I dont like bats that look ugly :(
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It doesnt look that bad, willow on the front looks nice and clean, personally not a fan of such an exagerated bow (I'm assuming this bow has been planed out rather than pressed into the blade) - but you cant say it doesnt look impressive!!!!
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Pete im sure that that bat would attract any umpires attention due to the incredibly pronounced bow rather than the size.
Nevertheless almost anyone would enjoy a good thrash with that piece of wood! Blinder!
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It doesnt look that bad, willow on the front looks nice and clean, personally not a fan of such an exagerated bow (I'm assuming this bow has been planed out rather than pressed into the blade) - but you cant say it doesnt look impressive!!!!
A booty like that looks nice on Beyonce or J-Lo but on a cricket bat nope!
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thats bat porn, slightly unnatural but stunning never the less!
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wow, just read this thread and I really want to try and make one of these bats, I've got a couple of older bats knocking around just want to see if I could get the process then perhaps try with some new willow. Anyone got a tutorial or tips/hints on where i could gain more information on how to create one of these monsters.
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i am certainly no bat expert. . . but i would have thought that the wood on the back would be excessively overdried to achieve the volume of wood. or maybe not even willow
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I've got an old chunk of a bat which is very light so guessing it's Kashmir and over dried, I was wanting to try and laminate a veneer to the face to try and improve it. It's only an experiment, got a couple of old bats knocking around which I wouldn't dare take to the square but wouldn't mind making a bat that pings for nets.
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also does anyone know of anybody that might have a slither of willow that could be used for such purpose? only needs to be around 600mm x 120mm x 20mm.
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n80krr - welcome to the forum mate!
Sounds like we have another bat tinkerer! The method you are looking to employ for laminating a bat will be extremely difficult for many reasons i wont go into. It may be easier to go for a cruder lamination to start with and see how it goes?
As for that slither of willow, it might be worth asking some of the batmakers on the forum - Matt at Hell4leather, Andy at SAF, Dan at Vantage or Gary at Redback all might be able to help you with this one.
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Thanks for the welcome SillyShilly, I have read a many a comment from yourself and value your input. Could you elaborate on cruder? Didn't really think there would be much cruder than and old bat with a nice fresh piece of willow stuck on the front. Also looking at what adhesives will work best, I have a few at my disposal. What do bat mkaers use to join handle to blade?
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PVA seems to be the weapon of choice for many people, in the handle this is just fine, not sure about the laminated layer though - i can see no reason why it should be any different?
I've only seen and used a few laminates so my knowledge is pretty poor - i suppose the ihsan pictured is rather abviously laminated, whereas the one i have it is almost impossible to recognise, i suppose it's down to the skill of the batmaker.
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I spoke to a recently released county player this weekend and he was saying the majority of the side he was playing for used laminated bats with upto 3 layers... Im not naming names though but they were very high profile players!
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I spoke to a recently released county player this weekend and he was saying the majority of the side he was playing for used laminated bats with upto 3 layers... Im not naming names though but they were very high profile players!
I agree with that, as I know quite a few players who use these bats.
Regards
Asad
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Vantage - you mentioned before someone turned up to your workshop with a bat with a thin sheet of rubber in it. I thought they were just wood and the stiffness created the power?
Is the face layer hard and the subsequent layers lighter or softer.
James Laver uses a "aliphatic glue" for the handles according to L&W facebook page.
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Thats just what I was thinking Beach. I've got access to polyurethane foam and also a selction of rubber compounds. so was wondering if i could hollow out a bat, using a cnc router then fill it with a product then put a veneer on the top face?
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I spoke to a recently released county player this weekend and he was saying the majority of the side he was playing for used laminated bats with upto 3 layers... Im not naming names though but they were very high profile players!
Surely the first class umpires must be noticing this and saying something?
Thats just what I was thinking Beach. I've got access to polyurethane foam and also a selction of rubber compounds. so was wondering if i could hollow out a bat, using a cnc router then fill it with a product then put a veneer on the top face?
forget J-Lo's bum - with that technique you could have a bat with the bum the size of serena williams'
(http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq56/luisadrian1986/serena-williams.jpg)
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think that curvature is just abit too much, lol.
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Thats just what I was thinking Beach. I've got access to polyurethane foam and also a selction of rubber compounds. so was wondering if i could hollow out a bat, using a cnc router then fill it with a product then put a veneer on the top face?
You and your CNC machine....
How are you going to get any performance gains for your bat with PU and rubber compounds and some veneer?
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Buzz - excellent example of curvature! :D
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So theoretically speaking, if i were to get a bat (pre made), take the front face off (around 10mm), make a groove (not sure on size), place some bouncy material in the groove(rubber) then place a small piece of willow (higher quality then the donor bat) back on the face and laminate it using some adhesive and a lot of weight. You reckon I'd have made a decent bat for catching practice?
You and your CNC machine....
How are you going to get any performance gains for your bat with PU and rubber compounds and some veneer?
I know boys and their toys, I'm just getting use to using it so right now I'm practicing on anything and everything. Thought might as well try something that I might use.
Just trying to think of springy materials that I could access to fill a cavity within a laminated bat.
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why springy, why not rigid?
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thinking of rubber as it holds a rigid form but has some give. Or would perhaps some resin and something be a better option much more rigid. I was afraid of breaking the material on high impact.
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So theoretically speaking, if i were to get a bat (pre made), take the front face off (around 10mm), make a groove (not sure on size), place some bouncy material in the groove(rubber) then place a small piece of willow (higher quality then the donor bat) back on the face and laminate it using some adhesive and a lot of weight. You reckon I'd have made a decent bat for catching practice?
I know boys and their toys, I'm just getting use to using it so right now I'm practicing on anything and everything. Thought might as well try something that I might use.
Just trying to think of springy materials that I could access to fill a cavity within a laminated bat.
Recommend you buy a Skyer
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I picked up a pink skyer off ebay for around £30 and the ball goes like a trampoline off it!
Makes catching practice better fun!
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thanks pete, I don't really want to buy something I could possibly make. It's not just to have a bat for catching practice it's to start to understand more about what makes a good bat. Thats why I posted in the Bat Making forum.
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Nothing wrong with good old Serena there, Id be happy riding her into battle !
Surely the first class umpires must be noticing this and saying something?
forget J-Lo's bum - with that technique you could have a bat with the bum the size of serena williams'
([url]http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq56/luisadrian1986/serena-williams.jpg[/url])
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I second that!!
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Nothing wrong with good old Serena there, Id be happy riding her into battle !
:D Love that line!
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one trusty steed.
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she scares the life out of me!
(http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/buzzrockport/serena.jpg)
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It's just a bit of cushion for the pushin!
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The fella who bought in a bat with a rubber sheet in, wasnt at my workshop, it was at my old job. It was just a thin sheet of rubber. I haven't any more info on the laminated bats, i have never seen one of the 3 sectioned bats. Wouldnt know why umpires dont pick up on it. They must be done very well. Im seeing the guy again at the end of the week. Il ask him if he could get hold of one. No promises.
Serena Williams - I would, though might not be the same afterwards. LIGHTS OFF!!!
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You won't find any much fitter - being able to play tennis ful on for 2-3 hours means her fitness levels would be far in excess of us mere humans!!
And she is certainly 100% SE model with the comfort extras!! :D
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I thought they were door flares ;). Hopefully you could get to see that bat Vantage, I'd love to see more pictures that aren't from sky +.
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I cannot say too much but an attempt to hide the face was made as it would have been clear on TV what had been done.
Wasn't one of these on ebay?
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I'll put up a bat next week for you to muse over......
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I have spoke to the player and he is going to try and get one from his old county for sunday/monday. Really hope he does as its quite interesting.
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Id be happy riding her into battle !
Isn't that where Newbery make their bats? B52 Bombers would never be quite the same, I'm sure.
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B52's are already "Massive, oversized profile with enormous edges" you sure PM7 hasn't already taken her down there? If not we could see some 4lb bats coming out of there next season.
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CHAMP-20-20-CRICKET-BAT-S-H-DOUBLE-BLADE-GRADE-1-EW-/190413496128
Another one on ebay