Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => World Cricket => Topic started by: forester123 on February 12, 2013, 07:36:49 PM
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The standard seems to be dropping dramatically! It is especially poor in 20/20. I watched alot of the big bash and a few sides played batsman who could keep a bit. eg. mike hussey and rob quiney. What was mike hussey doing wicket keeping!?
Josh Buttler is a excited prospect but he is 3rd choice at Somerset. It just doesnt seem right.
Remember the days of Jack Russell where he would change an out come of a game because of his keeping ability.
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It's Jos Buttler and as far as I know he is the 2nd choice keeper at Somerset.
Seems a tad unfair to compare the standard of wicket keeping in Test cricket at one period in time with the standard of keeping in T20 tournaments in the modern day. In the longer forms of the game there are some very good wicket keepers around the county and international circuits such as Prior and Foster.
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Well Dhoni is a poor keeper, you will admit that?
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The modern trend dictates batting ability is the most important for a keeper to be selected. However a good batsman can become a good keeper more easily than a good keeper becoming a decent batsman. Prior has proven that with the right coaching, work ethic and the right amount of cricket being played you can become a true all rounder. I see no reason why Buttler cannot go the same way.
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Well Dhoni is a poor keeper, you will admit that?
I disagree, Dhoni is a decent keeper if not a brilliant keeper. He has his off days and so does any other keeper. Mr. Kamran on the other hand is a poor keeper.
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The modern trend dictates batting ability is the most important for a keeper to be selected. However a good batsman can become a good keeper more easily than a good keeper becoming a decent batsman.
Precisely this, weight of runs is now deemed just as important if not more important than keeping ability. Otherwise someone like James Foster would have had 60+ caps. I do believe the very best keepers are keepers first, then batsmen, however someone who bats can keep to a higher standard compared to the standard of batting of a pure keeper.
I do think we will see more of a trend towards a good fielder/non bowler taking the gloves up in T20. In a short space of time, dropped edges or missed stumpings rarely count for that much, in comparison to the extra runs you can get by playing another batsman. I can't see this happening in test matches in the forseeable future though
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I disagree, Dhoni is a decent keeper if not a brilliant keeper. He has his off days and so does any other keeper. Mr. Kamran on the other hand is a poor keeper.
Really?? Really?? I think the only people who think he's good are indians.
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Dhoni has the agility of a table
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The most frustating was this years IPL auctions, when the first list of WK were announced, not a single one was auctioned. Really dissappointing, I hope that they understand the importance of WK, the skills are getting extinct.
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I disagree, Dhoni is a decent keeper if not a brilliant keeper. He has his off days and so does any other keeper. Mr. Kamran on the other hand is a poor keeper.
arhghhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahha
every time i see dhoni keep i think i wish i was Indian
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The guy is wrong about Mr Dhoni, however he was very right over cheaty Akmal. The guys a liability behind the stumps.. Might as well not be there! He's amusing though in fairness.
Shabash shabash
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arhghhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahha
every time i see dhoni keep i think i wish i was Indian
Matt Wade's no better, if you can't do a good job standing up to someone like Lyon then you can't call yourself a keeper!
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The guy is wrong about Mr Dhoni, however he was very right over cheaty Akmal. The guys a liability behind the stumps.. Might as well not be there! He's amusing though in fairness.
Shabash shabash
Didn't they drop match fixing investigations against Akmal because they realised he wasn't dropping them on purpose it was just that he was actually that rubbish
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Didn't they drop match fixing investigations against Akmal because they realised he wasn't dropping them on purpose it was just that he was actually that rubbish
That is quite possible. All I think when I see or hear about K.Akmal is the image of dropping catches and hearing 'shabash shabash' through the stump microphones.
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The standard seems to be dropping dramatically! It is especially poor in 20/20. I watched alot of the big bash and a few sides played batsman who could keep a bit. eg. mike hussey and rob quiney. What was mike hussey doing wicket keeping!?
Josh Buttler is a excited prospect but he is 3rd choice at Somerset. It just doesnt seem right.
Remember the days of Jack Russell where he would change an out come of a game because of his keeping ability.
I do admire jack Russell and think he was a top top keeper but I think his dogied batting won/drew more tests than his keeping did.
He was consista t and better than any keeper in the world present bar maybe jayawardene
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Really?? Really?? I think the only people who think he's good are indians.
Really. He is not brilliant or extraordinary, but he is a decent keeper.
(1) ADAM GILCHRIST :
Adam Gilchrist
Born : 14 november 1971
Nationality : Australia
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 287 55 417
Test 96 37 379
(2) MARK BOUCHER :
Mark Boucher
Born : 3 december 1976
Nationality : South Africa
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 292 22 400
Test 139 22 499
(3) IAN HEALEY :
Ian Healey
Born : 30 April 1964
Nationality : Australia
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 168 39 194
Test 119 29 366
(4) ROD MARSH :
Rod Marsh
Born : 4 november 1947
Nationality : Australia
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 92 4 120
Test 96 12 343
(5) JEFFREY DUJON :
Jeffrey Dujon
Born : 28 may 1956
Nationality : West Indies
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 169 21 183
Test 81 5 267
(6) KUMAR SANGAKARA :
Kumar Sangakara
Born : 27 october 1977
Nationality : Sri-Lanka
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 282 70 276
Test 94 20 163
(7) MAHENDRA SINGH DHONI :
M.S Dhoni
Born : 7 july 1981
Nationality : India
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 178 58 174
Test 54 25 148
(8) BRENDON McCULLUM :
Brendon Mccullum
Born : 27 september 1981
Nationality : New Zealand
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 184 13 206
Test 57 11 167
(9) GODFREY EVANS :
Godfrey Evans
Born : 18 August 1920
Nationality : England
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
First class 465 250 816
Test 91 46 173
(10) MOIN KHAN :
Moin Khan
Born : 23 september 1971
Nationality : Australia
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 219 73 214
Test 69 20 128
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I class myself as a keeper who can bat a little, although I have opened the innings on occasions and tonked a few. I'm not sure if other keepers on here would agree but I've found that if I've batted for a long time my keeping suffers and if I've kept really well my batting goes downhill.
It makes you realise that the likes of Knott and Russell worked hard at their trade, look at Matt Prior.
Quiet proficiency is the hall mark of an expert, Prior only gets noticed when he makes a mistake and should I believe be playing the shorter forms of the game.
Jos Buttler is at the moment first choice for 20/20 and can only get better, Sarah Taylor is having a bit of a lean patch as well.
Can't believe that the list doesn't include Knotty, get the stats books out and check him out.
Gilchrist is credited with changing the role of the keeper in the game and I totally agree.
Old Iron gloves Marsh apparently only got a game cos he was mates with the Chappell brothers and played club cricket with Dennis Lillee but he became a phenomenal keeper.
Great thread..............specialist keeper all the time for me after all we have specialist batsmen don't we......... :)
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Really. He is not brilliant or extraordinary, but he is a decent keeper.
(1) ADAM GILCHRIST :
Adam Gilchrist
Born : 14 november 1971
Nationality : Australia
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 287 55 417
Test 96 37 379
(2) MARK BOUCHER :
Mark Boucher
Born : 3 december 1976
Nationality : South Africa
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 292 22 400
Test 139 22 499
(3) IAN HEALEY :
Ian Healey
Born : 30 April 1964
Nationality : Australia
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 168 39 194
Test 119 29 366
(4) ROD MARSH :
Rod Marsh
Born : 4 november 1947
Nationality : Australia
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 92 4 120
Test 96 12 343
(5) JEFFREY DUJON :
Jeffrey Dujon
Born : 28 may 1956
Nationality : West Indies
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 169 21 183
Test 81 5 267
(6) KUMAR SANGAKARA :
Kumar Sangakara
Born : 27 october 1977
Nationality : Sri-Lanka
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 282 70 276
Test 94 20 163
(7) MAHENDRA SINGH DHONI :
M.S Dhoni
Born : 7 july 1981
Nationality : India
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 178 58 174
Test 54 25 148
(8) BRENDON McCULLUM :
Brendon Mccullum
Born : 27 september 1981
Nationality : New Zealand
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 184 13 206
Test 57 11 167
(9) GODFREY EVANS :
Godfrey Evans
Born : 18 August 1920
Nationality : England
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
First class 465 250 816
Test 91 46 173
(10) MOIN KHAN :
Moin Khan
Born : 23 september 1971
Nationality : Australia
Career Statistics :
Matches Stumping Catches
ODI 219 73 214
Test 69 20 128
should be a colum for dropped catches!
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where does AB De Villiars fit - he is averaging 57 with the bat since he bacame keeper for SA in tests and hasn't dropped too many...
there has been an argument he could be the best ever.
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should be a colum for dropped catches!
:D Should be ...would be interesting reading
I class myself as a keeper who can bat a little, although I have opened the innings on occasions and tonked a few. I'm not sure if other keepers on here would agree but I've found that if I've batted for a long time my keeping suffers and if I've kept really well my batting goes downhill.
It makes you realise that the likes of Knott and Russell worked hard at their trade, look at Matt Prior.
Quiet proficiency is the hall mark of an expert, Prior only gets noticed when he makes a mistake and should I believe be playing the shorter forms of the game.
Jos Buttler is at the moment first choice for 20/20 and can only get better, Sarah Taylor is having a bit of a lean patch as well.
Can't believe that the list doesn't include Knotty, get the stats books out and check him out.
Gilchrist is credited with changing the role of the keeper in the game and I totally agree.
Old Iron gloves Marsh apparently only got a game cos he was mates with the Chappell brothers and played club cricket with Dennis Lillee but he became a phenomenal keeper.
Great thread..............specialist keeper all the time for me after all we have specialist batsmen don't we......... :)
Which is why I admired Alec Stewart ....he used to keep and then open the batting ...awfully difficult !!!
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keeping well or batting well which ever comes first, i find always help me in the 2nd half of the game. the extra confidence helps, and after keeping first, I feel I know the wicket better after having time to work it out.
always going to be the need for specialist keepers in test cricket, after all it is the pinnacle of cricket
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Dhoni has the agility of a table
This actually made me 'Laugh out loud'
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Turning those stats into something more helpful...
Matt Prior
Catches per test 2.8
Stumpings per test 0.2
Catches per ODI 1.0
Stumpings per ODI 0.11
Dhoni
Catches per test 2.8
Stumpings per test 0.4
Catches per ODI 0.9
Stumpings per ODI 0.3
What does this actually tell you? Dhoni has faced more bowlers on pitches where stumpings are more likely, or in other words, India have more spinners/slow bowling.
It also shows that Dhoni isn't as bad as we like to think...
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And it also doesn't show you chance conversion rate
Sorry but suspect neither prior or dhoni are as high as say Healy or Russell or jayawardene or butcher
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Turning those stats into something more helpful...
Matt Prior
Catches per test 2.8
Stumpings per test 0.2
Catches per ODI 1.0
Stumpings per ODI 0.11
Dhoni
Catches per test 2.8
Stumpings per test 0.4
Catches per ODI 0.9
Stumpings per ODI 0.3
What does this actually tell you? Dhoni has faced more bowlers on pitches where stumpings are more likely, or in other words, India have more spinners/slow bowling.
It also shows that Dhoni isn't as bad as we like to think...
Number of byes?
Dropped chances?
I think after adding them to the other stats you will find Dhoni is as bad as we think
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Stats like this are a moot point as it depends entirely on chances created by bowlers, type of bowler etc. Also as a keeper we are expected to take anything we get a glove on so stats like chances dropped and byes conceeded would actually be a more accurate way of deciding. (I would suggest Mr Dhoni would rank particularly highly in byes conceeded *stands with hands on hips staring suspiciously at the pitch that is obviously to blame*)
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Stats like this are a moot point as it depends entirely on chances created by bowlers, type of bowler etc. Also as a keeper we are expected to take anything we get a glove on so stats like chances dropped and byes conceeded would actually be a more accurate way of deciding. (I would suggest Mr Dhoni would rank particularly highly in byes conceeded *stands with hands on hips staring suspiciously at the pitch that is obviously to blame*)
Conversely byes also depend on the bowler and the pitch .....how inaccurate and down the leg has he bowled .....how big a turner is the pitch and how much spin are you getting ...so I don't buy the argument that the stats depends on the chances created by the bowler ....Pakistan has one of the best bowling attack ...so in theory they should create more chances and Kamran Akmal should be right up there in the stats ! Is he ? No ...No matter how many chances you create if the keeper is bad he wont convert those chances into a wicket.
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My point was that on the stuff you can measure, Dhoni stacks up against Prior, and looking at the Gilchrist numbers, he kicks butt anyway. I'd agree that conversion rate is the real stat that would make a difference. Just how many chances resulted in a wicket?
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I agree conversion rate is the real stat...but if you are taking 2.8 catches per match and stumping 0.4 per match on average, surely it shows that you are converting enough chances to be achieving such averages?
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I agree conversion rate is the real stat...but if you are taking 2.8 catches per match and stumping 0.4 per match on average, surely it shows that you are converting enough chances to be achieving such averages?
As previously stated i would like to see the percentage of caught behinds in india than other areas would be interesting.
Make no mistake he is no mug but then again he is not in the Foster,Reed,Jayawardene,Healy,Boucher class as a keeper but he is as good as the current crop of international keepers bar Jayarwdene for me.
What ever happend to the Pakistan keeper who refused to be bribed he looked decent and unorthodox.
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What ever happend to the Pakistan keeper who refused to be bribed he looked decent and unorthodox.
Haider? The chap who tried to claim asylum over here as he was being threatened? He was alright, did a good job and batted well in the couple of tests he played. That who you mean Dave?
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Surely it would make sense to play a specialist keeping in 20/20. The majority of the runs are scored by the top 5 batsman anyway. Every dropped catch or byes given in a 20/20 make a huge difference in the outcome of the game.
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Haddin is classed as a specialist keeper is'nt he, look at the chance he dropped of Gayle, regulation supposedly.
Bruce French, Matt Priors mentor reckons the 22 year old Buttler has the best hands of any of Englands emerging glovemen.
Jack Russell last week went for James Foster.
Is'nt it great to discuss keeping and keepers.
We could do a team of wicket keepers based on ability first with the gloves on, mine would be, Knott, Taylor, Russell, Andrew,Stewart, Bari, Engineer, Kirmani, Marsh, Boucher and Foster :)
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Haddin is not classed as a keeper first he is a batsman/keeper in the gilchrist modern era mode
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Haddin is classed as a specialist keeper is'nt he, look at the chance he dropped of Gayle, regulation supposedly.
Bruce French, Matt Priors mentor reckons the 22 year old Buttler has the best hands of any of Englands emerging glovemen.
Jack Russell last week went for James Foster.
Is'nt it great to discuss keeping and keepers.
We could do a team of wicket keepers based on ability first with the gloves on, mine would be, Knott, Taylor, Russell, Andrew,Stewart, Bari, Engineer, Kirmani, Marsh, Boucher and Foster :)
No K.Akmal??? I'm shocked :o