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Author Topic: Standard of wicket keeping  (Read 9735 times)

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dmacwana

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2013, 08:00:28 AM »

Really?? Really?? I think the only people who think he's good are indians.
Really. He is not brilliant or extraordinary, but he is a decent keeper.
(1) ADAM GILCHRIST :


   Adam Gilchrist
Born : 14 november 1971
Nationality : Australia

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   287   55   417
Test   96   37   379

(2) MARK BOUCHER :

   Mark Boucher
Born : 3 december 1976
Nationality : South Africa

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   292   22   400
Test   139   22   499

(3) IAN HEALEY :


   Ian Healey
Born : 30 April 1964
Nationality : Australia

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   168   39   194
Test   119   29   366

(4) ROD MARSH :


   Rod Marsh
Born : 4 november 1947
Nationality : Australia

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   92   4   120
Test   96   12   343

(5) JEFFREY DUJON :


   Jeffrey Dujon
Born : 28 may 1956
Nationality : West Indies

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   169   21   183
Test   81   5   267

(6) KUMAR SANGAKARA :


   Kumar Sangakara
Born : 27 october 1977
Nationality : Sri-Lanka

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   282   70   276
Test   94   20   163

(7) MAHENDRA SINGH DHONI :


   M.S Dhoni
Born : 7 july 1981
Nationality : India

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   178   58   174
Test   54   25   148

(8) BRENDON McCULLUM :


   Brendon Mccullum
Born : 27 september 1981
Nationality : New Zealand

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   184   13   206
Test   57   11   167

(9) GODFREY EVANS :


   Godfrey Evans
Born : 18 August 1920
Nationality : England

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
First class   465   250   816
Test   91   46   173

(10) MOIN KHAN :


   Moin Khan
Born : 23 september 1971
Nationality : Australia

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   219   73   214
Test   69   20   128
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97notout

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2013, 08:27:37 AM »

I class myself as a keeper who can bat a little, although I have opened the innings on occasions and tonked a few. I'm not sure if other keepers on here would agree but I've found that if I've batted for a long time my keeping suffers and if I've kept really well my batting goes downhill.

It makes you realise that the likes of Knott and Russell worked hard at their trade, look at Matt Prior.

Quiet proficiency is the hall mark of an expert, Prior only gets noticed when he makes a mistake and should I believe be playing the shorter forms of the game.

Jos Buttler is at the moment first choice for 20/20 and can only get better, Sarah Taylor is having a bit of a lean patch as well.

Can't believe that the list doesn't include Knotty, get the stats books out and check him out.

Gilchrist is credited with changing the role of the keeper in the game and I totally agree.

Old Iron gloves Marsh apparently only got a game cos he was mates with the Chappell brothers and played club cricket with Dennis Lillee but he became a phenomenal keeper.

Great thread..............specialist keeper all the time for me after all we have specialist batsmen don't we.........  :)
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Simmy

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2013, 08:44:01 AM »

Really. He is not brilliant or extraordinary, but he is a decent keeper.
(1) ADAM GILCHRIST :


   Adam Gilchrist
Born : 14 november 1971
Nationality : Australia

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   287   55   417
Test   96   37   379

(2) MARK BOUCHER :

   Mark Boucher
Born : 3 december 1976
Nationality : South Africa

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   292   22   400
Test   139   22   499

(3) IAN HEALEY :


   Ian Healey
Born : 30 April 1964
Nationality : Australia

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   168   39   194
Test   119   29   366

(4) ROD MARSH :


   Rod Marsh
Born : 4 november 1947
Nationality : Australia

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   92   4   120
Test   96   12   343

(5) JEFFREY DUJON :


   Jeffrey Dujon
Born : 28 may 1956
Nationality : West Indies

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   169   21   183
Test   81   5   267

(6) KUMAR SANGAKARA :


   Kumar Sangakara
Born : 27 october 1977
Nationality : Sri-Lanka

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   282   70   276
Test   94   20   163

(7) MAHENDRA SINGH DHONI :


   M.S Dhoni
Born : 7 july 1981
Nationality : India

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   178   58   174
Test   54   25   148

(8) BRENDON McCULLUM :


   Brendon Mccullum
Born : 27 september 1981
Nationality : New Zealand

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   184   13   206
Test   57   11   167

(9) GODFREY EVANS :


   Godfrey Evans
Born : 18 August 1920
Nationality : England

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
First class   465   250   816
Test   91   46   173

(10) MOIN KHAN :


   Moin Khan
Born : 23 september 1971
Nationality : Australia

Career Statistics :

   Matches   Stumping   Catches
ODI   219   73   214
Test   69   20   128

should be a colum for dropped catches!
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Buzz

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2013, 10:02:19 AM »

where does AB De Villiars fit - he is averaging 57 with the bat since he bacame keeper for SA in tests and hasn't dropped too many...
there has been an argument he could be the best ever.
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dmacwana

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2013, 10:02:52 AM »

should be a colum for dropped catches!
:D Should be ...would be interesting reading

I class myself as a keeper who can bat a little, although I have opened the innings on occasions and tonked a few. I'm not sure if other keepers on here would agree but I've found that if I've batted for a long time my keeping suffers and if I've kept really well my batting goes downhill.

It makes you realise that the likes of Knott and Russell worked hard at their trade, look at Matt Prior.

Quiet proficiency is the hall mark of an expert, Prior only gets noticed when he makes a mistake and should I believe be playing the shorter forms of the game.

Jos Buttler is at the moment first choice for 20/20 and can only get better, Sarah Taylor is having a bit of a lean patch as well.

Can't believe that the list doesn't include Knotty, get the stats books out and check him out.

Gilchrist is credited with changing the role of the keeper in the game and I totally agree.

Old Iron gloves Marsh apparently only got a game cos he was mates with the Chappell brothers and played club cricket with Dennis Lillee but he became a phenomenal keeper.

Great thread..............specialist keeper all the time for me after all we have specialist batsmen don't we.........  :)
Which is why I admired Alec Stewart ....he used to keep and then open the batting ...awfully difficult !!!
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cricketbadger

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2013, 10:33:54 AM »

keeping well or batting well which ever comes first, i find always help me in the 2nd half of the game. the extra confidence helps, and after keeping first, I feel I know the wicket better after having time to work it out.
always going to be the need for specialist keepers in test cricket, after all it is the pinnacle of cricket
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Bruce

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2013, 11:44:58 AM »

Dhoni has the agility of a table

This actually made me 'Laugh out loud'
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tim2000s

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2013, 01:17:59 PM »

Turning those stats into something more helpful...

Matt Prior
Catches per test 2.8
Stumpings per test 0.2

Catches per ODI  1.0
Stumpings per ODI 0.11

Dhoni
Catches per test 2.8
Stumpings per test 0.4

Catches per ODI  0.9
Stumpings per ODI 0.3

What does this actually tell you? Dhoni has faced more bowlers on pitches where stumpings are more likely, or in other words, India have more spinners/slow bowling.

It also shows that Dhoni isn't as bad as we like to think...
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procricket

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2013, 01:26:20 PM »

And it also doesn't show you chance conversion rate

Sorry but suspect neither prior or dhoni are as high as say Healy or Russell or jayawardene or butcher
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Kez

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2013, 01:54:47 PM »

Turning those stats into something more helpful...

Matt Prior
Catches per test 2.8
Stumpings per test 0.2

Catches per ODI  1.0
Stumpings per ODI 0.11

Dhoni
Catches per test 2.8
Stumpings per test 0.4

Catches per ODI  0.9
Stumpings per ODI 0.3

What does this actually tell you? Dhoni has faced more bowlers on pitches where stumpings are more likely, or in other words, India have more spinners/slow bowling.

It also shows that Dhoni isn't as bad as we like to think...

Number of byes?
Dropped chances?

I think after adding them to the other stats you will find Dhoni is as bad as we think
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King pair

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2013, 01:56:58 PM »

Stats like this are a moot point as it depends entirely on chances created by bowlers, type of bowler etc. Also as a keeper we are expected to take anything we get a glove on so stats like chances dropped and byes conceeded would actually be a more accurate way of deciding. (I would suggest Mr Dhoni would rank particularly highly in byes conceeded *stands with hands on hips staring suspiciously at the pitch that is obviously to blame*)
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dmacwana

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2013, 02:22:53 PM »

Stats like this are a moot point as it depends entirely on chances created by bowlers, type of bowler etc. Also as a keeper we are expected to take anything we get a glove on so stats like chances dropped and byes conceeded would actually be a more accurate way of deciding. (I would suggest Mr Dhoni would rank particularly highly in byes conceeded *stands with hands on hips staring suspiciously at the pitch that is obviously to blame*)
Conversely byes also depend on the bowler and the pitch .....how inaccurate and down the leg has he bowled .....how big a turner is the pitch and how much spin are you getting ...so I don't buy the argument that the stats depends on the chances created by the bowler ....Pakistan has one of the best bowling attack ...so in theory they should create more chances and Kamran Akmal should be right up there in the stats ! Is he ? No ...No matter how many chances you create if the keeper is bad he wont convert those chances into a wicket.
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tim2000s

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2013, 03:19:15 PM »

My point was that on the stuff you can measure, Dhoni stacks up against Prior, and looking at the Gilchrist numbers, he kicks butt anyway. I'd agree that conversion rate is the real stat that would make a difference. Just how many chances resulted in a wicket?
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dmacwana

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2013, 04:55:24 PM »

I agree conversion rate is the real stat...but if you are taking 2.8 catches per match and stumping 0.4 per match on average, surely it shows that you are converting enough chances to be achieving such averages?
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procricket

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Re: Standard of wicket keeping
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2013, 05:00:08 PM »

I agree conversion rate is the real stat...but if you are taking 2.8 catches per match and stumping 0.4 per match on average, surely it shows that you are converting enough chances to be achieving such averages?

As previously stated i would like to see the percentage of caught behinds in india than other areas would be interesting.

Make no mistake he is no mug but then again he is not in the Foster,Reed,Jayawardene,Healy,Boucher class as a keeper but he is as good as the current crop of international keepers bar Jayarwdene for me.

What ever happend to the Pakistan keeper who refused to be bribed he looked decent and unorthodox.
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