Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: wasted_talent on October 20, 2013, 09:29:02 AM
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So Ishant has another nightmare in the last ODI. If you look at his stats as an ODI, they are average at best. Yet he continues to be picked. I dont believe India cannot have other seam alternatives they could pick. So is his continued selection a politcial one? Perhaps his one of the skippers "boys"? Whats people's views on him as an ODI bowler?
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Reminds me of a Matthew Hogard type - more of Test match bowler, where he can bowl at the slips with some support in place. In ODI's he lacks the variety (or sheer pace) to keep batsmen on their toes and skids on at a very nice pace to hit.
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Reminds me of a Matthew Hogard type - more of Test match bowler, where he can bowl at the slips with some support in place. In ODI's he lacks the variety (or sheer pace) to keep batsmen on their toes and skids on at a very nice pace to hit.
Yeah I agree mate
Whats your view on alternatives? In a country so big, India must have other bowlers they can turn to and nuture for the World Cup?
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Praveen Kumar... The perfect 20/20 or limited overs seam bowler. I haven't seen an Indian swing the ball that much since Kapil Dev.
...but as seam bowlers, who have India really got? RP Singh? Dinda? Aaron? - there are some good, young seam bowlers coming through but in hard, fast conditions, Sharma should be deadly... He just isn't!
Though tbh, India scored 300+ on that wicket. I'm guessing it was playing like a road so maybe just very good batting by Faulkner. He would have targeted Sharma, and this time, it came off.
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Whats happened to Umesh Yadav?
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Yeah I agree mate
Whats your view on alternatives? In a country so big, India must have other bowlers they can turn to and nuture for the World Cup?
I'm no expert on Indian domestic cricket, but the little I've seen suggests that there is not a whole lot of pace out there, so they need to look for clever seamers - the two Kumar's - Praveen and Bhuvaneshwar - fit that bill, though they both have to bowl their overs at the front end of the innings as they are pop gun once the ball stops swinging. Of the others, Yadav is probably the sharpest, so might be a decent bet as the third seamer, though there is a decent argument in most conditions for them to look toward 30 overs of spin!
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If I recall correctly, I don't think Sharmas average at Test level is that clever either.
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I think Ishant just doesn't really seem to learn. When he first came in, he was bowling in the 140s, and I recall on the Australian tour he got one up as high as 152. He is more in the 130-135 mark now, but that means that many of the deliveries he may have got away with before won't work. His bouncers just seem to sit up and beg to be smashed, and he dishes up way too many half volleys and length balls in the shorter forms of the game. I also don't think he really seems to make that much use of his height - his balls tend to skid on, whereas if you compare with other bowlers at his height, they can get it to bounce of a good length and bowl a heavier ball. Unfair comparison I know, but compare him to Glenn Mcgrath for example who was of similar pace and height.
I doubt if he played for anyone else in the top 3-4 teams he would have got anywhere near as many chances in all 3 forms of the game (his test average is very poor as well for someone with over 50 matches) which makes me think there may be some kind of partiality towards him for some reason, or maybe India just have a dearth of half decent medium pace or fast medium bowlers. Umesh Yadav seemed promising, so not sure what has happened with him.
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Sharma does have a natty little habit of producing very good spells - nowhere near often enough, I'll grant you - but with enough regularity that the powers that be, doubtless influenced by their overall lack of pace bowling depth, will stick with him in the hope that he develops a la Stuart Broad.
But that should be in the test game. In ODIs and T20, he is as I noted before too one dimensional to threaten.
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who would want to be a quick bowler in an ODI in India...
if the Indian management want quicks they need to produce pitches with some life in them.
but given it is the batsmen in India who are treated like demi gods, there is about as much chance of that happening as Inshant ever being a bowler in the class of broad.
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weren't Yadav coming through a little while ago?
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but given it is the batsmen in India who are treated like demi gods, there is about as much chance of that happening as Inshant ever being a bowler in the class of broad.
Ah c'mon, Broad is pretty wonky a lot of the time!
My point is more that Broad has gradually become less of a streak bowler and more or a day in day out leader of the attack type bowler over the last two to three seasons, when many people would have been very tempted to sideline him before that ever happened. On whatever level, you wonder whether a similar thing is hoped for by the Indian selectors from Ishant - because he can bowl quickly and he can go on those runs as well - just look at some of his spells against the Aussies over the years.
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woeful, when watching it i was thinking Dhoni must be thinking "ok, blockhole this time........." and he bowls length ! 6!
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woeful, when watching it i was thinking Dhoni must be thinking "ok, blockhole this time........." and he bowls length ! 6!
that was the most striking thing for me, is he bowled just length and short, no variation. i understand you may also get hit off a variation but then u hold your hands up and say, well batted
but it was 6 very poor balls
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that was the most striking thing for me, is he bowled just length and short, no variation. i understand you may also get hit off a variation but then u hold your hands up and say, well batted
but it was 6 very poor balls
couldnt agree more, i dont know what he can possibly say to dhoni after that over.....
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I've got a couple points on Ishant Sharma.
Firstly when he bowled those spells at Punter in Perth, he was much more aggressive in his run up and action. Obviously he was bowling high 140s and he had a far superior wrist position, allowing him to straighten the ball away from the right hander.
These days he's bowling 130s and the wrist position is all over the show. He bowls wide on the crease and due to the poor wrist position, everything is on the right handers hip, so it's money for old rope.
Obviously bowlers lose pace, but they become smarter. Eg McGrath, Lillee, Vaas, Mohammad Asif(cheat) all had unrelenting accuracy when they lost that yard of pace.
Ishant has no clue where the ball is every going. He seldom ever bowls two balls in the same place and all ways bowls at least one 4 ball per over.
Obviously he's not in the class of the above mentioned.
But brains you are born with, but in Ishant's case he's a moron.
It's true that the bowling at Perth overhyped him big time and he's simply just not that good.
One thing seemingly forgotten from the 3rd ODI was Vinay Kumar was equally as rubbish, yet has slipped under the radar.
Neither Ishant or Vinay Kumar are of international pedigree.
I read a tweet stating Fletcher and Dhoni are saving Yadav for Test matches. Pretty wise move considering they are playing in SA, NZ and England in a 7 month period.
I, for one, am lost at Praveen Kumar's axing. Now that chap is a masterful bowler.
Rant over.
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I think you make your own luck in international sports. Would like to see Ishant spend a season in county cricket. It worked wonders for Zaheer Khan.
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Praveen definitely was very skilled. Interestingly just checked his stats in tests, not too shabby either - 27 wickets in 6 matches at 25.81 a piece. Compare that with the supposed current pace spearhead Ishant.
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Praveen definitely was very skilled. Interestingly just checked his stats in tests, not too shabby either - 27 wickets in 6 matches at 25.81 a piece. Compare that with the supposed current pace spearhead Ishant.
I think thats the biggest surprise, that Praveen is no longer in the frame, as like people have said, his a very skillful bowler albeit not sharp in pace.
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ishant dropped for today's match-what are the selectors doing??
seriously dont know how Praveen Kumar does not get in the squad
watched him in 2011 over here and he swung it around and thinks about it
not seen many India bowlers actually swing the thing since zaheer khan...
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ishant dropped for today's match-what are the selectors doing??
seriously dont know how Praveen Kumar does not get in the squad
watched him in 2011 over here and he swung it around and thinks about it
not seen many India bowlers actually swing the thing since zaheer khan...
Parveen was easily the best bowler in that 2011 whitewash.
Hasn't played a game for India since
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indeed he was, Zaheer went off injured at Lords and that was his tour over
i don't understand the Indian selectors sometimes,some players Raina for example gets picked all the time....
if I remember correctly Dhoni took the pads off and had an over or two in that game!! :)
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Pretty sure that Praveen's axing was something to do with something he said or did in the domestic game? His temperament, or that's what I heard. As for Ishant... I posted something on cricinfo but my iphone decided it didn't want to let me. Basically, Ishant has become somewhat complacent in the Indian side, because of (in his view) a lack of seam bowling, so he must feel comfortable in the view that he won't get dropped (or if he does, he's next cab on the rank). However, I sympathise in that what poor person would want to run in off 30 yards, for 20 overs a day, on a track with no seam/swing/(variable) bounce, when they can walk in off 5 paces and get turn from the outset? The tracks in India are woeful and they complain about a lack of seam bowling depth. I wonder why...
Also, on the topic of Ishant going to County Cricket à la Zaheer, he's not fit to lace Zaheer's boots. Zaheer got in because he was very good, and worth having as an O/S pro. Ishant would want too much money (because he's an international) for someone of his calibre, unless he finds his form that he had in his earlier days, he's barely worth a spot in a County 2nds side.
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Remarkably India dropped B Kumar instead of the woeful Vinay Kumar today.
B Kumar was ranked the bowler of the champions trophy just 3 months ago...
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I find Ishant a really annoying bowler to watch as I hate the way he tries to give the batsman some, after he's bowled one good ball that beats him out of about 10 overs of tripe - concentrate on being more consistent mate before giving it the big one!
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Ishant is not worth the money, so many years in international cricket and "still learning", haven't learnt anything yet. The way he bowls I could smack him for a few leave alone international batsmen. The last I heard of Praveen and Umesh was they were injured, hope they recover soon. I would prefer playing a new bowler every match for trial rather than picking Ishant in my playing 11.