Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: 19reading87 on December 17, 2013, 12:25:30 PM
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There are a lot of topics elsewhere talking roughly about this subject so I thought I'd open a new topic specifically for this..
There seems to be talk of people wanting "A B and C dropped" so with that name your personal England XI
I have to admit that this maybe a great time to clear out some deadwood and start a fresh era...
This is open to all English qualified players not just people in the current Ashes squad
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1. Ben Stokes
2. Ben Stokes
3. Ben Stokes
4. Ben Stokes
5. Ben Stokes
6. Ben Stokes
7. Ben Stokes
8. Ben Stokes
9. Ben Stokes
10. Ben Stokes
11. Ben Stokes
Sorry, couldn't help it!
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Deadwood?
This is one of the most successful England teams ever. How many centuries and wickets are in that team? Only Carberry is not really good enough in the current XI.
I would say a few months off may be most beneficial for the team. Play the Lions against whichever IPL obsessed shower turn up in May and then start again vs India next summer.
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I agree with alvaro, however I think carberry has acquitted himself well in some poor team displays, he never looks to be going on to get a big 'un though. I think all this drop pietersen talk is fickle, fine line between brilliance and stupidity in the pundits eyes. I think australia have played good hard cricket under boof lehmann and its made the series a lot more interesting for the purist. I just think wholsale changes against a rampant aussie line up would be a poor way (and not the usual english way) of getting new talent settled into the line up. Think we may as well line rankin and finn up and try to give them some short stuff back.
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Deadwood was an overkill and just a word on the top if my tongue at the time. I suppose I mean people who in my opinion haven't performed greatly over the last 12 months
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Hard to name a fixed XI as I think part of England's current problem is an over-reliance on the same side every game which leaves them unprepared in case of injury/fatigue/loss of form.
For Melbourne:
Cook
Root
Bell
Pietersen
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Bresnan
Broad (if fit)/Finn (if it won't do more damage to his confidence than good)
Panesar
Rankin
Beyond that:
Cook
Root
Bell
Pietersen
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow/Buttler
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Anderson
With more emphasis on rotating the seamers and introducing a younger spinner - though not sure who - when possible. A little flimsy in the late middle order but Cook, Bell and Pietersen will need to start taking real responsibility for their performances for England to be successful in this rebuilding phase. Also, I would prefer Bell as captain but appreciate that ship may have sailed
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As there is no pressure on the results now, obviously it would be good to see us win the last 2 tests - but I feel when a series is already lost, why not try out some new blood - so here's my team with plenty of all-round prowess.
Cook
Root
Bell
Pietersen
Ballance
Stokes
Moeen Ali
Prior
Broad(Anderson if injured)
Finn
Mills
In;
Mills will add something we've been lacking, a quick left arm seam option.
Moeen Ali will add a bit of difference, there's no doubt that he had a superb season for the mighty pears and between himself and Root they can handle the spinning option(as he took a 5fer in the EPP game(I think))
Ballance deserves his chance in the middle order with Bell moving up to 3.
Finn should've played from the 1st test for me, probably our quickest bowler consistently - okay he may go for a few runs(however everyone has been going for runs this series), but he takes wickets - something that's been lacking this series from most of the bowlers.
Prior is in there ahead of Bairstow due to his keeping, however he is batting at 8. Lucky to be in the squad above Bairstow on his performances - but with the batting already in the team it's more important we have a better keeper.
Out;
Anderson - lack of swing, out of form and hasn't looked that threatening.
Swann - not done enough this series, out of form/lack of assistance
Carberry - hasn't really done it, it's been tough - the only time it's worked is when he built a partnership with Cook
Bresnan - not a fan of his, not a great deal of pace and it seems Stokes is doing a better job at his role of bowling wicket to wicket.
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I think seeing as the ashes have already been won by australia(You Beauty!), Give Tymal Mills and Moeen Ali a shot in the team for a few games so that they can prove their worth.
I had the opportunity to bowl to both of these players and whild TYmal is a genuine number 11, he has some serious pace. In the case of Moeen, he is very talented, he hit me for 3 sixes with a middling bat!. heard hes been in good form recently aswell.
With nothing to lose I think england could make some of these changes.
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Still can't see the big fuss about Mills. His FC performances have been on the verge of being dreadful and his inexperience hardly helps. He has the pace but not any other aspects he needs to become a decent front line bowler yet.
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I think seeing as the ashes have already been won by australia(You Beauty!), Give Tymal Mills and Moeen Ali a shot in the team for a few games so that they can prove their worth.
I had the opportunity to bowl to both of these players and whild TYmal is a genuine number 11, he has some serious pace. In the case of Moeen, he is very talented, he hit me for 3 sixes with a middling bat!. heard hes been in good form recently aswell.
With nothing to lose I think england could make some of these changes.
I like Moeen and would love him to break into the side. He has done surprisingly well with the ball and obviously racked up a lot of runs in a very weak Worcestershire side this year. However, I do think Ballance has earned first crack at a batting spot with his performances on the Lions tour. Having said that, if Moeen keeps improving his spin and weighing in with serious runs then he could offer further balance/versatility to the squad, especially considering the dearth of immediate replacements for Swann.
I saw Mills bowl in a championship game at the end of last season and to be honest it looked like he was blowing a lot of hot air! He certainly has pace about him and so probably some room for development but at the moment he is far too raw (reflected by his FC stats) and I wouldn't be rushing to throw him in at the deep end. Let him mature and gain more match experience then see where he ends up. He reminds me a bit of Saj Mahmood in terms of the hype around him. Raw pace is not the answer to all of England's problems in my opinion
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I think Moeen's route in is via the ODIs. Then batting seven and bowling spin in the subcontinent like a thin Samit. Tymal Mills? Not a chance.
I think that Manormanic is right about Azeem Rafiq - he would be my choice as Swann's replacement.
For India, I think the side should be:
Cook
Compton
Root
Bell
KP
Bairstow +
Stokes
Bresnan
Broad
Rafiq
Anderson
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Ignoring the Ashes, my "squad" for the seven home tests would comprise:
Cook (retaining the armband)
Robson
Root
Pietersen (if he is committed and demonstrates it)
Bell
Stokes
Prior
Swann
Broad
Rankin
Anderson
plus:
Bairstow
Ballance (if he scores runs up the order for Yorkshire)
Onions
A left armer
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It has been four years, three months and 25 days from the moment that Michael Hussey succumbed to Graeme Swann on a late August day at The Oval that clinched England's Ashes, to that at the Waca when Jimmy Anderson fended off yet another lifter from Mitchell Johnson into the hands of George Bailey at short leg, to bring them back to Australia. The change in fortune has been astonishing, not least in the last five of those months.
There has been a ferocity about Australia's approach that has been far from edifying at times, but it has been mighty effective.
England have been outgunned in every aspect of the game. The relative number of centuries, seven to Australia against Ben Stokes' magnificent effort in Perth, can be misleading( as it was in 2009) because four of those came in the second innings with a significant lead already. But the manner in which Johnson in particular obliterated England's lower order, while England failed to manage the same, was crucial, as was the quality of the Australian catching against that of England.
In Perth – especially in Perth – given the state of the series, they made a selection mistake in not including Boyd Rankin rather than the workhorse Tim Bresnan.
England have been let down by a failure to make first-innings runs sufficient to keep them in the game and maintain pressure on Australia. If, in general, the toss makes little difference between winning and losing, it seems to be having a considerable influence on Ashes matches at the moment, with seven of the last eight results, going back to Melbourne three years ago, going to the side winning the toss.
At times all of the top-five batsmen, with the exception of the unfortunate Jonathan Trott, have batted well enough, and certainly confidently against Johnson at least, without going on to make match-defining scores. Stokes', meanwhile, was the first hundred by an England batsman selected to bat at No6 since Eoin Morgan's against Pakistan at Trent Bridge in 2010. The decline of Matt Prior has had a startling effect.
Already it is time to look to the future, and not just to Melbourne, Sydney and the need to avoid a whitewash. It is little more than 18 months until the next Ashes series in England, in which period England have the remaining two games in Australia, two Tests at home to Sri Lanka followed by five against India, then three in the Caribbean in April of 2015 and two at home against New Zealand once more.
In other words, 14 Tests to assemble and give experience to a team that can compete with Australia in an endeavour to win back the Ashes. This does not, or should not, involve a whole root-and-branch sack-them-all approach. The Australians know as much as anyone that England possesses quality cricketers, whom through their own excellence they have made to play well below their standards individually and therefore collectively.
Alastair Cook is perfectly right in saying that Andy Flower is in the best position to bring about the change. To suggest that he would not have been aware that his team had plateaued is to do him an injustice but he might have expected a deal more from experienced cricketers. Likewise, Cook himself is a respected captain, a job that entails rather more than just running things on the field. But there is certainly a case for bringing about a change in the culture of the side, where micro-management has been taken to excessive degrees, and which has maybe taken the focus from more fundamental aspects of preparation.
It would be no surprise if Flower did not insist now on a reduction in support staff. A greater emphasis on players taking full responsibility for their own games will also be high on an agenda: the reliance on coaches who for their part see it as their role not to spoon-feed but to help batsmen and bowlers think for themselves, is too great.
Flower will need to make a rapid assessment of which players he believes will be around and in a position to form the nucleus of the squad in 2015.
These might include, from the Perth XI Cook, Joe Root, Ian Bell, Stokes, and Stuart Broad, perhaps with the addition of Anderson still, and Bresnan. Michael Carberry probably not. How Kevin Pietersen fits into this is hard to gauge but if his ambition is still there then so should he be.
Against that it is unlikely that Graeme Swann will play for much longer, if at all after this series (the inclusion of Stokes in the squad here was early acknowledgement of succession planning). From the remainder of the squad can be added Jonny Bairstow, Gary Ballance, Steve Finn, and Rankin.
Beyond that, in the medium term, they will be looking at the likes of Sam Robson as a possible alternative to Carberry, Moeen Ali, Ben Foakes, Jos Buttler, James Taylor and young pacemen such as Essex's Tymal Mills (who barely gets a game and must surely move counties), Jamie Overton and David Willey. The only credible spinner is Monty Panesar, but Stokes' presence does make that balancing act easier.
The immediate future of Prior hangs by a thread. Clearly his lack of runs and general confidence is impacting on his keeping, and for the remaining two Tests it would be prudent to bring in Bairstow. This would not by any means equate to the end of his international career as Brad Haddin, five years Prior's senior, has shown. But there is much to rebuild in someone who has been an outstanding competitor for England.
For Melbourne, Broad's injury may force a bowling change anyway, in which case Rankin should come in, and perhaps in any case in place of Anderson, who has just lost that snap that makes him so dangerous. It is too early to judge if he is simply burnt out after bowling more overs this year than any other pace bowler worldwide, or whether it is the start of a decline.
Whether Panesar plays instead of Swann might boil down to how they view the longer term. A personal view is that the changes have to start now, as far as they can.
Meanwhile, Australia look set to challenge the best for a while to come. The careers of both Chris Rogers and Haddin are close to the end, but the planning is sound, so that Phil Hughes is ready to return, Alex Doolan is thought ready to take over Shane Watson's role at No3, with Watson moving to six in place of George Bailey.
Peter Nevill, who England saw in their pre-series warm up in Sydney, will be the next keeper. The pace bowling is chock full of talent, the trick only in keeping them fit. Only the future condition of Michael Clarke's back might give rise to real concern. They will not relinquish the Ashes readily
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Mike Selvey ^^^
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for the remainder of the ashes:
cook
carberry
root
KP
bell
bairstow
stokes
bresnen
rankin
finn
monty
then for the next series (India)?
cook
root
bell
KP
ballence
stokes
prior (one more series if he doesnt perform id bring davies in)
broad
swann
finn
anderson
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For the rest of the ashes.
Cook (as skipper, cant drop him really).
Carbs (two games to show he can get that "big" score).
Bell (I think he should stay at 5, but to prove one way or the other).
KP (I guarantee he'll get a ton before the end of the series)
Ballance (give him a go, why not).
Stokes (tonned up, bowls ok).
Prior (two games to get his form back, no pressure now, go play some shots)
Bresnan (done ok in last test).
Finn (for the injured Broad).
Swann (best spinner we have, not much left for him).
Rankin (foe the "injured" Anderson after he picks up a niggle in training).
So the only dropped player is possibly the one with most potential. Root. I really like him as a cricketer and possibly future captain. Not really sure why it is him to lose out. Maybe because we can be sure he'll be back in the summer.
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For me it would be
Cook
Carbs
Root
KP
Bell
Stokes
Prior
Bresnan
Broad(if not fit then Rankin)
Finn
Panesar
Swan has been a great bowler but it seems that this Australia side have got his number. Panesar out bowled him when he played. Anderson is great when there is sideways movement but cant get this Kook ball swinging (either conventional or reverse).
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Rest of the series
Cook
Carberry (he's not long term but he looks like he belongs)
Bell
Root
Ali
Balance
Prior
Stokes
Broad (if fit, I'd not then rankin because Finn has zero confidence it seems)
Rankin (if already selected due to broad then Finn)
Monty
Post ashes and for the next 12 months regardless of form
Cook
Carberry
Bell
Root
Ali
Balance
Prior
Stokes
Broad
Rankin
Monty
My 'spares' would be Chopra, Robson, Finn and borthwick. I'd get Barstow and butler playing as much county cricket as possible (even if that means missing ODI's) and then send them to Aus I the winter for more state cricket .
Long term
Cook
Chopra
Root
Alli
Robson
Balance
Butler
Stokes
Broad
Finn
Borthwick
Vince in reserve
No idea then who is coming through but if they are going to change then change now and give the new players a full 3/4 series to learn. Also, when not playing send them to their counties for championship games.. Rest them by using a different squad for Micky mouse t20 and ODI
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Rest of the series
Cook
Carberry (he's not long term but he looks like he belongs)
Bell
Root
Ali
Balance
Prior
Stokes
Broad (if fit, I'd not then rankin because Finn has zero confidence it seems)
Rankin (if already selected due to broad then Finn)
Monty
Post ashes and for the next 12 months regardless of form
Cook
Carberry
Bell
Root
Ali
Balance
Prior
Stokes
Broad
Rankin
Monty
My 'spares' would be Chopra, Robson, Finn and borthwick. I'd get Barstow and butler playing as much county cricket as possible (even if that means missing ODI's) and then send them to Aus I the winter for more state cricket .
Long term
Cook
Chopra
Root
Alli
Robson
Balance
Butler
Stokes
Broad
Finn
Borthwick
Vince in reserve
No idea then who is coming through but if they are going to change then change now and give the new players a full 3/4 series to learn. Also, when not playing send them to their counties for championship games.. Rest them by using a different squad for Micky mouse t20 and ODI
So Anderson's career is now over? Seems a pretty harsh assessment of his situation, form is temporary afterall...
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So Anderson's career is now over? Seems a pretty harsh assessment of his situation, form is temporary afterall...
No, he can still play a part due to injuries and potential form with Finn etc but he's knackered. Give him a few months off and get him back when with the duke ball. He's 31 though and we need to replace him.
Phase him out and the next in over the next 12-18 months if you want but will he be a force in 2015?
Anyway, people have written carbs off when actually in a failing team he's done ok. Just got unlucky a couple of times. Anderson on his day is great but he's look rubbish this tour on the whole. Odd spells he's bowled ok but in the main he's not done it. Few months off Eric and back in the uk with the duke and he'll be back.
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No, he can still play a part due to injuries and potential form with Finn etc but he's knackered. Give him a few months off and get him back when with the duke ball. He's 31 though and we need to replace him.
Phase him out and the next in over the next 12-18 months if you want but will he be a force in 2015?
Look at Harris at 34 and with a much more troublesome build/injury record than Anderson but still definitely a force. I still think Anderson has plenty to offer if used properly. Let him continue to run through sides on seamers' wickets in England but stop running him into the ground on unhelpful away surfaces and develop variety in the attack along the way
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There's a lot of baby with the bath water going on here.....
I dont think bringing in a new batsman is a good idea, he'd get monstered, possibly never play again.
Obviously england havent played as well as they'd like, #6 has been an issue, but looks like thats sorted. Bell & Root need to swap. I think people are being overly harsh on carberry, he's got pretty good starts in first innings.
Looks like broad will be out, bring in rankin or finn
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I dont think bringing in a new batsman is a good idea, he'd get monstered, possibly never play again.
Just like Stokes then?
He has come in and hasn't been "monstered".
This Aussie attack isn't "that good". They all have qualities and play their own part well, but it's not like facing McGrath/Warne etc or the Windies of the 80s.
They are a good bowling unit, and have bowled much better than the English, but will not be remembered as one of the great bowling attacks.
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Rest of the series
Cook
Carberry (he's not long term but he looks like he belongs)
Bell
Root
Ali
Balance
Prior
Stokes
Broad (if fit, I'd not then rankin because Finn has zero confidence it seems)
Rankin (if already selected due to broad then Finn)
Monty
Post ashes and for the next 12 months regardless of form
Cook
Carberry
Bell
Root
Ali
Balance
Prior
Stokes
Broad
Rankin
Monty
My 'spares' would be Chopra, Robson, Finn and borthwick. I'd get Barstow and butler playing as much county cricket as possible (even if that means missing ODI's) and then send them to Aus I the winter for more state cricket .
Long term
Cook
Chopra
Root
Alli
Robson
Balance
Butler
Stokes
Broad
Finn
Borthwick
Vince in reserve
No idea then who is coming through but if they are going to change then change now and give the new players a full 3/4 series to learn. Also, when not playing send them to their counties for championship games.. Rest them by using a different squad for Micky mouse t20 and ODI
Worryingly you've put a bloke who bats 3 at number 11 in Borthwick :-/
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There's a lot of baby with the bath water going on here.....
I dont think bringing in a new batsman is a good idea, he'd get monstered, possibly never play again.
Obviously england havent played as well as they'd like, #6 has been an issue, but looks like thats sorted. Bell & Root need to swap. I think people are being overly harsh on carberry, he's got pretty good starts in first innings.
Looks like broad will be out, bring in rankin or finn
Let's not get carried away! Which England has been 'monstered' other than Cook getting cleaned up early twice and perhaps Prior? Otherwise, by and large they've got themselves out with poor shot selection under pressure, as shown by all of their middling scores. It's only the tail who have been truly roughed up.
Also, not meaning to be harsh on Carberry but at 33 you need instant results or what's the point?
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There's a lot of baby with the bath water going on here.....
I dont think bringing in a new batsman is a good idea, he'd get monstered, possibly never play again
Bloody hell, Aussies aren't that good!! They are no Warne/McGrath/lee.
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My squad would be:
Cook
Rooooooooot
Chopora
Bell
Ali
Ballance
Stokes
Stevie D
Bresnan
Broad
Finn
Kerrigan
Wakes
Willey
Meaker
Butler
Monty
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Carbs has done enough to keep his place.
Not gonna drop Cook, or even move him.
I'd prefer Bell 3, but can't see England changing their minds
KP is poss the only batter at risk, but then he's the only guy with any xfactor. Not sure he should be dropped, or whether England have the balls to
Bell will prob stay put
Stokes is now undroppable
Prior ought to go but is Bairstow up to it? Will be interesting to see how Buttler gets on as an everyday keeper for lancs
...so I can't see them changing the top 7, which is stupid, since it's England's poor batting that has lost us this test series
Anderson does look knackered, but if Broad is injured will they let the less experienced seamers lead the attack? I'd like to see them bring Onions across (who I believe is on standby) I get the impression that part of the reason he hasn't played so much is because he's seen as being too similar a bowler to Anderson. I think he's experienced enough to alleviate fears about the likes of Finn or Rankin.
Swann has been battling an elbow injury for a long time and I feel if England had won the ashes he would have retired. Whether he'll be dropped, will step down anyway or will strive to go out on a higher note than this remains to be seen. Wouldn't be surprised to see Monty replace him for the rest of the tour.
Thing is a tail of (for arguments sake) Bresnan, Finn, Onions, Monty starts to look bloody long for a side that's already struggling for runs...
So basically... 5-0 Australia
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I'd drop KP - poor decision-making, irresponsible shots, general poo-ness.
As it is, I suspect England will need to get along without him next year anyway.
No-one is untouchable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Worryingly you've put a bloke who bats 3 at number 11 in Borthwick :-/
well, he had decided to pick five opening batsmen so...
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Just like Stokes then?
He has come in and hasn't been "monstered".
This Aussie attack isn't "that good". They all have qualities and play their own part well, but it's not like facing McGrath/Warne etc or the Windies of the 80s.
They are a good bowling unit, and have bowled much better than the English, but will not be remembered as one of the great bowling attacks.
Stokes was fantastic, really enjoyed his innings. What I mean is a 'batsman' into the top 4 or 5, not an allrounder. i think you'll find Stokes is taken more seriously now and that a fair bit of time will be spent on planning for him. After Adeliade, i think the aussies thought as i did; just another pom that looks good playing from the crease, nice n tidy, but cant really bat, bang a few in, then a full wide one, and see you later, which seemed the case in Adelaide. He's better than that, a whole lot better than that. Lets see how he goes in the next 2 tests before pronouncing him the next Botham. I hope he does well, a genuine allrounder is a rare thing.
What I was meaning is that if you bring in compton, balance, that midget whose name i forget, then they will get pulverised and be the next bloke on the plane home with 'issues'.
This attack is a whole lot better that you poms all keep saying. either youre bitter (which is understandable) or really dont know much about cricket (which is likely based on the comments on here) I think many of you should stick to looking at the pretty bat pictures.
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To be fair awp I'm not sure about those NB stickers
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Stokes batted well but we over attacked with him. KP is Englands biggest problem, talented but such a selfish sook, surely he couldn't be trusted inside the dressing room?
How good was it to see the back of the stupid rotation system.
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Stokes was fantastic, really enjoyed his innings. What I mean is a 'batsman' into the top 4 or 5, not an allrounder. i think you'll find Stokes is taken more seriously now and that a fair bit of time will be spent on planning for him. After Adeliade, i think the aussies thought as i did; just another pom that looks good playing from the crease, nice n tidy, but cant really bat, bang a few in, then a full wide one, and see you later, which seemed the case in Adelaide. He's better than that, a whole lot better than that. Lets see how he goes in the next 2 tests before pronouncing him the next Botham. I hope he does well, a genuine allrounder is a rare thing.
What I was meaning is that if you bring in compton, balance, that midget whose name i forget, then they will get pulverised and be the next bloke on the plane home with 'issues'.
This attack is a whole lot better that you poms all keep saying. either youre bitter (which is understandable) or really dont know much about cricket (which is likely based on the comments on here) I think many of you should stick to looking at the pretty bat pictures.
Not saying that the Australian attack isn't good at all; they've been excellent so far. However, I think people are provoked by your suggestion that they have 'monstered' the English batsmen. Only Trott, who had a clear pre-existing deficiency against the short ball (setting aside whether or not he was affected by personal issues), has been 'worked over' in the England top order to the extent you're making out. Not sure any of the backup batsmen England have would be blown away like you suggest (whether or not they make telling runs out of starts is a different story judging from performances so far), Stokes being a good example.
Not a lot of single figure scores for a betting lineup that's being 'monstered'...
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This attack is a whole lot better that you poms all keep saying. either youre bitter (which is understandable) or really dont know much about cricket (which is likely based on the comments on here) I think many of you should stick to looking at the pretty bat pictures.
Oh dear, troll alert. :(
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This attack is a whole lot better that you poms all keep saying. either youre bitter (which is understandable) or really dont know much about cricket (which is likely based on the comments on here) I think many of you should stick to looking at the pretty bat pictures.
Wait, you really just claimed this attack is nearly as good as the one in and before 2005 ???. I think you're the one that needs to stick to pretty bat pictures mate!
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Wait, you really just claimed this attack is nearly as good as the one in and before 2005 ???. I think you're the one that needs to stick to pretty bat pictures mate!
Now now Sam. know you're thinking that:
Harris is not on the level of McGrath
Johnson is at best equal to Lee
Siddle is in no way fit to hold Dizzy's headband
Lyon....oh feck it I am NOT going there....
But that is only four nil. Meanwhile...
Watson might edge Ponting as a fourth seamer
Smith vs Katich is close but Smith possibly just shades it
Warner is marginally less of a pie chucker than Martyn
Bailey might be a bit better than Langer
Rodgers is a useful net bowler to the tailenders and Hayden thought that beneath him
So, given that wicketkeepers can't be brought into it and Clarke was in both sides, its arguably five four to the current lot!!! ;)
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Now now Sam. know you're thinking that:
Harris is not on the level of McGrath
Johnson is at best equal to Lee
Siddle is in no way fit to hold Dizzy's headband
Lyon....oh feck it I am NOT going there....
But that is only four nil. Meanwhile...
Watson might edge Ponting as a fourth seamer
Smith vs Katich is close but Smith possibly just shades it
Warner is marginally less of a pie chucker than Martyn
Bailey might be a bit better than Langer
Rodgers is a useful net bowler to the tailenders and Hayden thought that beneath him
So, given that wicketkeepers can't be brought into it and Clarke was in both sides, its arguably five four to the current lot!!! ;)
I think the best ever ICC rating is a good yard stick.
McGrath is at 5, Warne at 16, Johnson at 68, Siddle at 71, then Lee, Gillespie and Harris are all between 71 and 88
So, what it shows is that this current attack,might have got into the 3/4 bowler slot. Stuart Clark is up in the numbers, fair bit higher than Johnson.
However, with McGrath and Warne in your team, you will only have slim pickings anyway, unlike Johnson and Harris who have all 10 wickets a chance of getting.
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Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Clarke
Martyn
Watson
Gilchrist
McGrath
Gillespie
Harris
Warne
That would do as a composite XI
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Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Clarke
Martyn
Watson
Gilchrist
McGrath
Gillespie
Harris
Warne
That would do as a composite XI
Depends when you compare - if its the actual 2005 Ashes Gillespie would go for Lee. If its career then Harris would - you simply don' need Harris if you have a fit firing Dizzy getting it down at 90.
In any event, who really thinks Watto would make the side? Surely Warner from the current vintage or Haddin as a batsman!!!
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Composite England side is trickier but, based on overall performance and in Australian conditions I would have:
Trescothick
Cook/Strauss
Vaughan
Pietersen (of 2005)
Bell (of 2013)
Flintoff
Prior
Swann
Broad/Hoggard
Harmison
Jones
Tough to select Prior and Swann on this series but overall they top Jones and Giles. Hoggard vs Broad for the third seamers slot is tough - for me Hoggard gets it because he liked the hard yards whereas Broad would have been the fourth choice big cheese.
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I'd have Watson to make hay at six and to bowl a few overs. I think Harris is a top bowler and Gillespie wore a headband. Lee was an odi bowler with connections.
I'm English too, so would secretly want them to win anyway.
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I'd have Watson to make hay at six and to bowl a few overs. I think Harris is a top bowler and Gillespie wore a headband. Lee was an odi bowler with connections.
You have Warne and Pidge, you don't need a few overs fiddling!
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If you're a Roblinda Youtube junkie like me you'd be surprised the number of times key wickets were taken by people like Greg Blewett, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh, Simon Katich and even Martyn and Ponting.
you always like to have that fifth bowler whether you have world beaters or not.
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If you're a Roblinda Youtube junkie like me you'd be surprised the number of times key wickets were taken by people like Greg Blewett, Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh, Simon Katich and even Martyn and Ponting.
you always like to have that fifth bowler whether you have world beaters or not.
Thing is none of those guys was picked over a better batsman on account of their ability to fiddle a few overs. Therefore, Warner being a better bat than Watson, he gets in an, should overs need to be fiddled, Warner' leggies, Clarke's slow leftarm and Punter's pies would more than suffice.
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Nah.
I like Watson over Warner at 6.
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Nah.
I like Watson over Warner at 6.
I'd take Watson over Warner too. Warner's a dirty slogger with an attitude problem and no brain cell.
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I'd take Watson over Warner too. Warner's a dirty slogger with an attitude problem and no brain cell.
Whereas Watson is a slightly more refined slogger with a slightly better attitude and 1 working brain cell!
I don't think there's much to pick between them if I'm honest with you.
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Whereas Watson is a slightly more refined slogger with a slightly better attitude and 1 working brain cell!
I don't think there's much to pick between them if I'm honest with you.
Quite agree :)
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For me it will be:
Cook
Carberry
Compton
Root
Bell
Stokes
Bairstow/Prior
Broad
Finn/Mills/J Overton
Anderson
Panesar/Kerrigan
Personally i think carberry n compton deserve their chances, prior should play but with performance recently giving bairstow a chance would be good, finn mills or overton r all pace and they will be good for the seam attack, maybe finn as more experience, also panesar n kerrigan as spin as i dont think swann is at near his best anymore, kerrigan got smashed last ashes but he will be a great bowler just need more experience.
N maybe in2-3 years:
Cook
Robson
Root
Bell
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Broad
Finn
Mills/Overton
Kerrigan
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Whereas Watson is a slightly more refined slogger with a slightly better attitude and 1 working brain cell!
I don't think there's much to pick between them if I'm honest with you.
Watson is a bit less up himself and can bowl as well.
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Watson is a bit less up himself and can bowl as well.
but either man's primary job is batting, and Warner averages ten clear of Watto. If we go into secondary responsibilities, Warner is an annoying t**t and worth the odd wicket for the value of sticking him at short leg to Warne and watching batsmen trying to kill him!
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but either man's primary job is batting, and Warner averages ten clear of Watto. If we go into secondary responsibilities, Warner is an annoying t**t and worth the odd wicket for the value of sticking him at short leg to Warne and watching batsmen trying to kill him!
As long as he's not allowed to wear a box while fielding there that's valid selection criteria!
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but either man's primary job is batting, and Warner averages ten clear of Watto. If we go into secondary responsibilities, Warner is an annoying t**t and worth the odd wicket for the value of sticking him at short leg to Warne and watching batsmen trying to kill him!
I'd happily give up 10 runs per innings to have someone who can bowl tightly and get a few wickets.
Especially when you are talking about having an opening bat at 6. There's is a possibility that either will struggle there, at least Watson can tie up an end.
Problem with putting Warner at short leg to Warne is Warne is to good batsmen topin short leg. If Lyon was bowling, maybe, but not Warne.
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As long as he's not allowed to wear a box while fielding there that's valid selection criteria!
I can imagine Warney ordering him to take his box out in front of the batsman! ;)
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I'd happily give up 10 runs per innings to have someone who can bowl tightly and get a few wickets.
Especially when you are talking about having an opening bat at 6. There's is a possibility that either will struggle there, at least Watson can tie up an end.
On the former point, its not really relevant - you've got Warne, who will bowl 35 tight overs any day you need him to, McGrath, who gets through 20 plus at next to nothing and workhorses in (two of) Harris, Gillespie and Lee. In those circumstances the only reason you need a fifth bowler is as a pure unadulterated strike breaker and Watson is not that. On the latter, Warner has batted six and done well, Watson has batted six and, erm, failed....go figure...
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On the former point, its not really relevant - you've got Warne, who will bowl 35 tight overs any day you need him to, McGrath, who gets through 20 plus at next to nothing and workhorses in (two of) Harris, Gillespie and Lee. In those circumstances the only reason you need a fifth bowler is as a pure unadulterated strike breaker and Watson is not that. On the latter, Warner has batted six and done well, Watson has batted six and, erm, failed....go figure...
But it is always good to have a fifth bowler.
Take out the Watson/Warner spot, you still have 6 top batsmen plus Warne and either Harris or Lee. Why would you need the extra 10 runs that Warner would bring when Watson would probably make that up in his bowling?
Tight bowling to give the others a break. Slower pace and more accurate that Dizzy/Harris/Lee. Something different ti have is always good.
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Out of interest can someone please explain how and when David Warner became 'a dirty slogger'?
Warner plays proper shots. Hitting the ball in the air doesn't make you a slogger.
Warner doesn't just hack to mid wicket a la Afridi.
If you think Warner's 'a dirty slogger' then I think you've lost it...
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Out of interest can someone please explain how and when David Warner became 'a dirty slogger'?
Warner plays proper shots. Hitting the ball in the air doesn't make you a slogger.
Warner doesn't just hack to mid wicket a la Afridi.
If you think Warner's 'a dirty slogger' then I think you've lost it...
It was when he first started test cricket. He would play too many big shots to the wrong ball. If he got bogged down or scored slowly, he wouldn't dig in, rather blast his way out of it.
Not so much now, but reputations stick.
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But it is always good to have a fifth bowler.
Take out the Watson/Warner spot, you still have 6 top batsmen plus Warne and either Harris or Lee. Why would you need the extra 10 runs that Warner would bring when Watson would probably make that up in his bowling?
Tight bowling to give the others a break. Slower pace and more accurate that Dizzy/Harris/Lee. Something different ti have is always good.
If it is so important to have that fifth bowler, how come none of the great Australian sides had one? Even when they were reduced to using Dusty Miller to open the bowling they still stuck with four and fiddled a few overs if they really had to - and I think that that would still be the way with the team we've already identified, especially as Watson doesn't really offer you anything that different to get two set batsmen to play with a false sense of invincibility the way that Punter, Hussey, Katich et al managed. As for the extra runs rom Warner, it is not so much that he would make them as the manner of their making - he isn't the dirty slogger of repute so much as a developing strokeplayer who scores very quickly - when you'd be looking to put opponents under the cosh, he would be your go to man.
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It was when he first started test cricket. He would play too many big shots to the wrong ball. If he got bogged down or scored slowly, he wouldn't dig in, rather blast his way out of it.
Not so much now, but reputations stick.
Warner's second Test, he's scored a 100 on a raging green top at Tasmania, against a top quality Kiwi seam attack.
Never a slogger in a million years.
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Warner's second Test, he's scored a 100 on a raging green top at Tasmania, against a top quality Kiwi seam attack.
Never a slogger in a million years.
Aussie Sky News presenter...
http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/12/03/can-david-warner-bat-through-a-gruelling-test/ (http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/12/03/can-david-warner-bat-through-a-gruelling-test/)
Pretty much sums up what we have been saying (or at least myself, see other thread about 3rd test).
- Can bat.
- Can look good.
- Doesn't always seem to play the right shot to the right ball (see comment re: Dale Steyn on above link).
Even the article uses the word "slogger".
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Warner is changing his style in tests and is looking better and better. However when he come onto the scene he was a slogger. It's jaunt a shame he's so thick and seems to think verbals is required
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Warner is changing his style in tests and is looking better and better. However when he come onto the scene he was a slogger. It's jaunt a shame he's so thick and seems to think verbals is required
Yep, definitely trending, got that Gilcrist change the game in an hour ability which is extremely rare. Not a bright lad, but based on what he has done with his success id say fundamentally decent. Re verbals..... your mob have brought it on themselves...
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Yep, definitely trending, got that Gilcrist change the game in an hour ability which is extremely rare. Not a bright lad, but based on what he has done with his success id say fundamentally decent. Re verbals..... your mob have brought it on themselves...
yes I'm sure Root's really deserving of abuse the moment he walks in to bat.. Anderson and Swann maybe as they gave it out and deserve no sympathy but I can't say I've ever seen or heard Root say boo to a goose so there was no need. The guy is a thug and just happens to be good at cricket and we as a society treat him like he's something special. He's a thug pure and simple and that shouldn't tolerated regardless of your 'talent'. So Joey Barton in football is a classic example.. just kick him out the game.. game doesn't need him.. give him a chance.. if you blow it then get lost.
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I don't for a second think that Warner can even be remotely compared to Joey Barton.
He's boorish, but no more so than Hayden was, for instance. Barton has a real nasty streak to him, Warner is a panto villain.
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I actually think Warner deserves a lot more respect than Hayden. Warner, when it comes down to it, is borderline inbred and pig thick - he doesn't mean to be an (No Swearing Please), he just is. Hayden, on the other hand, seemed bright and intelligent when I met him during his county fays - but became a grade a ****er as he became more successful. That's a far greater sin in my eyes.
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I don't for a second think that Warner can even be remotely compared to Joey Barton.
He's boorish, but no more so than Hayden was, for instance. Barton has a real nasty streak to him, Warner is a panto villain.
No nasty streak, because it's perfectly friendly to go and punch someone totally unprovoked...
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I don't for a second think that Warner can even be remotely compared to Joey Barton.
He's boorish, but no more so than Hayden was, for instance. Barton has a real nasty streak to him, Warner is a panto villain.
Your joking right? Normal people go round punching people don't they??? Or go to great lengths to verbally abuse other players so even some of the best sledges in the game even call it OTT. The guy is a thug and very very similar to Joey Barton. Both not allowed on twitter as they can't be trusted.. Both gob off... Both pig thick.... Both over paid for being pig thick ... Pretty similar to me
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No nasty streak, because it's perfectly friendly to go and punch someone totally unprovoked...
See Ian Chappell and Ian Botham…
Remember, Joe Root is an angel ;)
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Your joking right? Normal people go round punching people don't they??? Or go to great lengths to verbally abuse other players so even some of the best sledges in the game even call it OTT. The guy is a thug and very very similar to Joey Barton. Both not allowed on twitter as they can't be trusted.. Both gob off... Both pig thick.... Both over paid for being pig thick ... Pretty similar to me
Never in the history of humanity have 'normal' people had a few sherbets and then punched someone in the heat of the moment.
Walkabout bars are tantamount to libraries most of the time.
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Never in the history of humanity have 'normal' people had a few sherbets and then punched someone in the heat of the moment.
Walkabout bars are tantamount to libraries most of the time.
Oh so it's ok to go about punching people? You know, cause I had a few so that's ok then.
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I'm not saying it's fine, I'm saying it happens.
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my Xi for boxing day...
cook
carberry
bell
root
Pietersen
stokes
prior
Bresnan
broad (assuming fit)
Anderson
Monty
if broad isn't fit, we have to play Finn. you can't give a debut at this point so Rankin shouldn't play, tremlett is finished as an international player.
batting order played with to even out the experience, put our best player where he bats best and to give our match winner more protection.
we have to accept that wholesale changes should not happen now. dropping prior with swann retiring would rob the team of too much experience, plus an out of form prior is still better than bairstow in my view as a keeper.
we need to bat better. hopefully Anderson and broad have had time to recover during the last few days.
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my Xi for boxing day...
cook
carberry
bell
root
Pietersen
stokes
prior
Bresnan
broad (assuming fit)
Anderson
Monty
if broad isn't fit, we have to play Finn. you can't give a debut at this point so Rankin shouldn't play, tremlett is finished as an international player.
batting order played with to even out the experience, put our best player where he bats best and to give our match winner more protection.
we have to accept that wholesale changes should not happen now. dropping prior with swann retiring would rob the team of too much experience, plus an out of form prior is still better than bairstow in my view as a keeper.
we need to bat better. hopefully Anderson and broad have had time to recover during the last few days.
Surely out best batsmen where he bats eat would be Bell at 5??
And leave Root at 3 and stop messing him about in my opinion
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Agree with Buzz on KP to 5 for a bit more protection. I'd only swap root and bell around though :)
Apart from that, it's about the best we can expect from this bunch
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Agree with Buzz on KP to 5 for a bit more protection. I'd only swap root and bell around though :)
Apart from that, it's about the best we can expect from this bunch
Cook
Carberry
Root
Bell
Pietersen
Stokes
Prior
Bresnan
Broad (assuming fit)
Anderson
Finn (if broad is not fit)
Monty
That what you'd go for??
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Cook
Carberry
Root
Bell
Pietersen
Stokes
Prior
Bresnan
Broad (assuming fit)
Anderson
Finn (if broad is not fit)
Monty
That what you'd go for??
It's what I'd go for given they won't make whole sale changes :( I'd prefer to strip the oldies out full stop and start again but that won't happen. So given that, yeah. I'd take that line up
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It's what I'd go for given they won't make whole sale changes :( I'd prefer to strip the oldies out full stop and start again but that won't happen. So given that, yeah. I'd take that line up
Cook (captain)
Carberry
Root
Bell (vice vice captain)
Ballance
Bairstow (wk)
Stokes
Borthwick
Bresnan
Broad (vice captain) (assuming fit)
Rankin
Finn (If Broad's not fit)
Would like to see something like that but it won't happen!
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dropping the experienced players at this point isn't a good plan in my view.
kp is the all time leading run scorer for England has 100 caps and we need his experience.
he is our best matchwinner you don't drop that.
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dropping the experienced players at this point isn't a good plan in my view.
kp is the all time leading run scorer for England has 100 caps and we need his experience.
he is our best matchwinner you don't drop that.
He's also an egotistic bottle job who gets himself out stupidly when under pressure and is only getting into the team on past performances. You do drop that.
The KP of old is gone, the sooner the selectors see that the better. (I'd love him to prove me wrong with a match winning performance now!)
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dropping the experienced players at this point isn't a good plan in my view.
kp is the all time leading run scorer for England has 100 caps and we need his experience.
he is our best matchwinner you don't drop that.
I agree. As an Aussie I would love to see you drop KP because he is a match winner and I think he will come good before the series is over.
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Suggesting Bairstow to keep wicket? Im not so sure on a few counts...
1.) Can he deal with the short ball?
2.) Is his keeping up to it yet?
3.) He is a poor ginger lad and will burn in the Australian sun.
If buttler can get over the t20 basher tag with a good season for lancs may he come into contention?
Or are the England staff looking at Ben Foakes as a long term replacement... Only 20 FC games but already in the EPP.
Ballance, a Zimbabwean so cue the moaning we are nicking other countries talent again...
Also he scored a shed load of his FC runs for the mid west rhinos averaging 70. Even Mark Pettini scored runs in Zimbabwe...
1. Cook
2. Carbs/ Chopra?
3. Bell
4. KP - still got a year left in him
5. Root
6. Stokes
7. Prior
8. Broad
9. Anderson
10. Finn - give the lad a run in the team, cant get form getting shipped too and from England to Middlesex then being called back.
11. Monty
Other Options: Trott (when he comes back), M.Ali, Buttler, James Taylor, Harris, Jordan, Onions and Tredders.
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Cant believe you blokes seriously want to drop kp...... hasnt been too good obviously, but there arent more than 3or 4 (maybe) genuine batting match winners in international cricket, he is one.
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If he can keep fit this year I think we might see a bit of Toby Roland-Jones (plus nothing will wind up the colonials like a nice English double-barrel).
And with my Middlesex hat on, I think they like the look and temperament of Simpson.
How about this for an A-team for next year -
1) Chopra
2) Simpson
3) Ali
4) Taylor*
5) Ballance
6) Butler+
7) Borthwick
8 Coles
9) Harris
10) Roland-Jones
11) Topley
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Roland-Jones seemed to have a 'want do I have to do?' fallow period last year. A shame because he does get hatfuls of wickets.
An Overton could be considered perhaps? I'm not sure about Simpson that high up, though I assume you've already promoted one Middx opener to the Test team?
Not a bad team, but I'd like to see Woakes in it and leave Taylor out.
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If he can keep fit this year I think we might see a bit of Toby Roland-Jones (plus nothing will wind up the colonials like a nice English double-barrel).
And with my Middlesex hat on, I think they like the look and temperament of Simpson.
How about this for an A-team for next year -
1) Chopra
2) Simpson
3) Ali
4) Taylor*
5) Ballance
6) Butler+
7) Borthwick
8 Coles
9) Harris
10) Roland-Jones
11) Topley
Put Sam Robson in instead of Simpson and that looks pretty much the team.
Personally I'd love to see Sam Northeast have a massive year next year and see him push into the A team