Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => World Cricket => Topic started by: Kulli on July 08, 2014, 10:49:34 AM
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Was it out, there's been a massive deabte at my club as the laws don't really seem that clear over it.
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Why would it not be out?
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Not out.
He was out of the field of play when he left the ground and landed in.
He needed to have grounded inside the boundary before leaping.
If you can take catches like bolt did. Then you can go stand in the crowd and just jump up and palm a massive six back onto the field.
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Out
Read no 5. Not the same example but the answer clears this up.
http://www.lords.org/mcc/laws-of-cricket/law-changes-2013-explained/law-changes-quiz-questions/ (http://www.lords.org/mcc/laws-of-cricket/law-changes-2013-explained/law-changes-quiz-questions/)
http://www.lords.org/mcc/laws-of-cricket/law-changes-2013-explained/law-changes-quiz-questions/law-changes-quiz-answers/ (http://www.lords.org/mcc/laws-of-cricket/law-changes-2013-explained/law-changes-quiz-questions/law-changes-quiz-answers/)
(e) a fielder catches the ball after it has crossed the boundary in the air, provided that after being struck by the bat, the first contact with the ball is by a fielder, not touching or grounded beyond the boundary, who has some part of his person grounded within the boundary or whose final contact with the ground before touching the ball was entirely within the boundary.
Any fielder subsequently touching the ball is not subject to this restriction. See Law 19.4 (Ball beyond the boundary).
(f) the ball is caught off an obstruction within the boundary that has not been designated a boundary by the umpires before the toss.
4. Fielder beyond the boundary
A catch shall not be made and a Boundary 6 shall be scored if after the ball has been struck by the bat a fielder
(i) has some part of his person touching or grounded beyond the boundary when he catches the ball, or after catching it subsequently touches the boundary or grounds some part of his person beyond the boundary while carrying the ball but before completing the catch as defined in Law 19.4.
(ii) catches the ball after it has crossed the boundary in the air without the conditions in 3(e) above being satisfied.
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The rules you just quoted state it was not out.
It's in this section.
e) a fielder catches the ball after it has crossed the boundary in the air, provided that after being struck by the bat, the first contact with the ball is by a fielder, not touching or grounded beyond the boundary, who has some part of his person grounded within the boundary or whose final contact with the ground before touching the ball was entirely within the boundary.
particularly this part of that.
or whose final contact with the ground before touching the ball was entirely within the boundary.
Boults final contact with the ground was over the boundary. Not out clear as day in the rules.
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I read it that his final contact before touching the ball is the one made before he throws it up into the air, which is within the boundary.
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Its definitely out! The ball never goes past the boundary! It stays in field and is caught before going across the boundary? Its no different to any of these other types of catches!
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You never used to be able to start outside the boundary and walk in, seems to happen all the time now though. Haven't seen it but reading the description on cricinfo it seems ok.
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Its definitely out! The ball never goes past the boundary! It stays in field and is caught before going across the boundary? Its no different to any of these other types of catches!
But it IS different. All others are touch by players who have jumped from the field where Boult jumps from off the field and does not return to the field of play until after he has touched the ball again.
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Ah yeah I see what you mean, but even so, they go off the field and then come back onto the field again! Tis a tricky one! Wasn't questioned at the time, and the ball didn't go over the rope which some do! Surely that means that it is a fair catch, as the ball never goes for 6.
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who has some part of his person grounded within the boundary
or
whose final contact with the ground before touching the ball was entirely within the boundary.
Boults final contact with the ground was over the boundary. Not out clear as day in the rules.
It says 'or' so only one condition has to be true .
In this case it is out I guess
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Below is the explanation why it is out. For those who don't want to read, its all about first contact with the ball.
Law 19.4 (specially written for these boundary catches) stipulates the following
A ball may be caught, subject to the provisions of Law 32, or fielded after it has crossed the boundary, provided that
(i) the first contact with the ball is by a fielder either with some part of his person grounded within the boundary, or whose final contact with the ground before touching the ball was within the boundary.
(ii) neither the ball, nor any fielder in contact with the ball, touches or is grounded beyond, the boundary at any time during the act of making the catch or of fielding the ball.
The act of making the catch, or of fielding the ball, shall start from the time when the ball first comes into contact with some part of a fielder’s person and shall end when a fielder obtains complete control both over the ball and over his own movement and has no part of his person touching or grounded beyond the boundary.
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Definitely out then!
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Ah yeah I see what you mean, but even so, they go off the field and then come back onto the field again! Tis a tricky one! Wasn't questioned at the time, and the ball didn't go over the rope which some do! Surely that means that it is a fair catch, as the ball never goes for 6.
Tis a very tricky one.
As it wasn't questioned, I presume it is correct.
However it certainly is a talking point and interesting. It seems to be a lot of rules tapes together to get the answer.
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Sgs ruling seems to suggest out.
You could argue he had control, and was not juggling and then threw the ball so it became another stage. But then it gets over complicated.
So on submitted evidence my view has change to out.
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Below is the explanation why it is out. For those who don't want to read, its all about first contact with the ball.
Law 19.4 (specially written for these boundary catches) stipulates the following
A ball may be caught, subject to the provisions of Law 32, or fielded after it has crossed the boundary, provided that
(i) the first contact with the ball is by a fielder either with some part of his person grounded within the boundary, or whose final contact with the ground before touching the ball was within the boundary.
urm
clearly not out
if you run outside the boundary, jump and throw it back it is a six, because your last step was over the line.
the law was changed to ensure that is the case.
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If you read the law to the letter then it is not out ,
In this case they need to rephrase this law correctly , they need to use the word 'and' instead of 'or' .
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Clearly not out. His last contact with the ground was outside the boundary.
Law 19.4 (specially written for these boundary catches) stipulates the following
A ball may be caught, subject to the provisions of Law 32, or fielded after it has crossed the boundary, provided that
(i) the first contact with the ball is by a fielder either with some part of his person grounded within the boundary, or whose final contact with the ground before touching the ball was within the boundary.
They don't need to reword the law. As it stands the law means that the fielder is either grounded inside the boundary or can jump from inside the boundary to stop the ball going over the line. If the Or is replaced with And, you cannot jump to stop the ball going over for six.
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But............ he doesn't make contact with the ball at any point from outside the boundary, the ball doesn't go over the boundary. Surely if that is the case then any ball stopped inside the boundary, and then left there while the fielder touches the rope, is also 4?
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no, that isn't the same - the law is to prevent people running outside the boundary and then jumping to make a "catch" and throwing the ball back.
I can't see how in your example the fielder wouldn't touch the ground inside the boundary before picking the ball up again - if he picks the ball up touching the rope it is 4 anyway.
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My thoughts were that it was out, mainly because it's too good not to be and the rules are not very clear in this instance.
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Clearly not out. His last contact with the ground was outside the boundary.
Law 19.4 (specially written for these boundary catches) stipulates the following
A ball may be caught, subject to the provisions of Law 32, or fielded after it has crossed the boundary, provided that
(i) the first contact with the ball is by a fielder either with some part of his person grounded within the boundary, or whose final contact with the ground before touching the ball was within the boundary.
They don't need to reword the law. As it stands the law means that the fielder is either grounded inside the boundary or can jump from inside the boundary to stop the ball going over the line. If the Or is replaced with And, you cannot jump to stop the ball going over for six.
Isn't the law is about first contact? his last contact with the ground before touching the ball for the first time was within the boundary
So it's out.
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Isn't the law is about first contact? his last contact with the ground before touching the ball for the first time was within the boundary
So it's out.
That was my final opinoon, but the laws are pretty wooly.
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I remember watching this live and thought not out due to jumping from outside the playing area. Couldn't believe nothing was said at the time so assumed I was in the wrong
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Isn't the law is about first contact? his last contact with the ground before touching the ball for the first time was within the boundary
So it's out.
Having watched it again, I'm moving into the "It's woolly" territory. On some of the points:
1. He wasn't fully in control when he let the ball go, as if he was, he wouldn't have thrown it in a way which took it toward the boundary rope.
2. The ball appears to have never crossed the boundary, in which case the points being made relating to 19.4 are irrelevant.
On this basis, I change my verdict and go with "Out".
In addition, law 19.4 relates to the first fielder to touch the ball. Any subsequent fielder is not bound by this, so the question if law 19.4 was in play is, having knocked it back in, would he then be considered under the subsequent fielder rule or the first fielder rule...?
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Deffo out, remember all the quoted rules refer to the ball having crossed the boundary, seen a few of these catches in T20 and fair play to those involved with such feats of skill I'd always want a reward for the efforts put in.
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It's absolutely out. The ball never crosses the boundary nor is it ever in contact with him whilst he is the other side of the rope.
My understanding of the recent change in the rule is that the fielder must not touch outside the boundary before he takes the catch, i.e. To stop players standing in the crowd and parrying the ball back into the field.